Trump Should Be Removed from Office

[The Barbarian]

redleghunter said: ↑
It’s a false equivalence.

Barbarian addresses the claim:
I just showed you that there was no equivalence. Clinton didn't make a political payoff to keep his behavior quiet. Trump did. And that was a felony. Clinton's affair wasn't a crime at all.

Stay on topic. You did not address my post.

If you didn't want to learn about it, it was probably a bad idea to bring up that topic.

 

[The Barbarian]

I'm curious to know... does the Bible state that committing adultery in one specific location is a much worse and more serious sin than committing adultery somewhere else? For instance, is a man more of an adulterer if he commits adultery in his home or a hotel versus if he does the deed in his office?

I never heard anything like that until Trump was caught. Then the excuses flowed like water.

I'm not being facetious because I'm curious to know why some people seem to think Trump shouldn't be judged the same as Bill Clinton even though both of them are guilty of committing adultery.

"THAT'S DIFFERENT!!!!!"

 

[The Barbarian]

Yes Nancy sitting on the articles and not delivering them to the Senate is indeed obstruction of Justice. The very definition

Nope. The Constitution gives her the power to send the articles if impeachment over when she decides to do it.

She can wait until she's satisfied that there will be fair trial procedures. Otherwise, she could wait as long as necessary.

 

[GACfan]

I never heard anything like that until Trump was caught. Then the excuses flowed like water.

I'll admit that I'm somewhat impressed by all the concentrated and determined effort that has gone into defending Trump. Many conservatives have been faithfully defending him for three years now and they are still going like the Energizer Bunny. I'm sure the mental gymnastics to defend him, come you know where or high water, can be quite a daunting task for some of his supporters. I honestly don't know how they keep up and have kept it up this long. I wonder if some of them take notes to keep it all straight. I kind of feel sorry for some of them grasping at straws by denying that Trump has been impeached. And now some of them have added defending Franklin Graham's comments to the mix.

 

[miamited]

Hi RLH

JUst a note to add to one of your posts:

Graham and none of us know what is between God and Trump. As Christians we would be hypocritical to hold sins in the past which may have been repented of over any person we encounter.

Can we really trust Sen. Graham to be telling us some truth? I don't think there is anyone who has proven themselves to be more 'of two minds' than Sen. Graham. So, the question still remains and to date, Sen Graham has not answered: Was he telling the truth to us when he proclaimed Donald Trump to be a race-baiting, bigot whose nomination would effectively destroy the Republican party? Or is he telling us the truth now about 'who' Donald Trump is?

Personally, I have a hard time knowing when he might be telling me something that he really believes to be true, or trying to sell me some party line that he knows he has to say in order to ingratiate himself with the President. For me, Sen. Graham is the epitome of a politician who would sell his soul to any position so long as he believes it would ensure him another term in office.

How do we know? It's the same question asked in pretty much every legal trial where someone has changed their testimony. How do we know which testimony, of the two that you've given, is the truth? After that, now that we know that the person will lie to us, knowing that one of the two testimonies is not the truth. How do we then know, in future testimony, that anything else they say would be the truth? For me, Sen. Graham has clearly shown himself to be a man without particularly strong convictions. That he seems clearly ok with telling people what he believes they want to hear for his own benefit, despite any truth that may be involved. Personally, I'm hoping that he and President Trump both leave Washington on the same train. They are the swamp! They are the consummate politicians bought by lobbyists to tell us what's in their best interests, over and above any truth.

The swamp will have been drained when our legislature restores the nation with some assurance that the politicians who claim to speak for the majority of their electorate...really do. When we outlaw lobbyists offering similar quid pro quos as to what President Trump has made. An 'I'll do this for you if you'll do that for me' arrangement exists between many of our legislators and the 'special interest groups' that have their ear. That form of governance has now made it all the way to the top of our government and it's pretty blatant. For me, President Trump has not drained the swamp, but has rather dug out more solid earth to allow the swamp to grow larger.

Draining the swamp is just another of his many failed campaign planks. Along with replacing the ACA with a better and less expensive healthcare system. Paying off the national debt in 8 years. Building his 'great wall of Trump'. Enact term limits for Congress. Invest in infrastructure.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[The Barbarian]

Listening to Graham talking about impeachment during the Clinton impeachment, and during the Trump impeachment sounds like two entirely different people, as does Graham talking about Trump before he was elected, compared to his talk about Trump now.

I wonder if Lindsey has any convictions at all.

 

[GACfan]

Listening to Graham talking about impeachment during the Clinton impeachment, and during the Trump impeachment sounds like two entirely different people, as does Graham talking about Trump before he was elected, compared to his talk about Trump now.

I wonder if Lindsey has any convictions at all.

It's that way for other conservative leaders who also loyally support Trump, like Franklin Graham, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and Jerry Farwell, Jr. Hypocritical double standards have become the norm.

James Dobson condemning Bill Clinton for his sexual scandals and adultery, "Character does matter. You can't run a family, let alone a country without it. How foolish to believe that a person who lacks honesty and moral integrity is qualified to lead a nation and the world." (Source)

James Dobson endorsing Donald Trump: "I’m not under any illusions that he is an outstanding moral example. It’s a cliché but true: We are electing a commander-in-chief, not a theologian-in-chief.” Source: I’m an evangelical. The religious right leaders who support Trump don’t speak for me.

Here is another example: The televangelist Pat Robertson once called Clinton a "debauched, debased, and defamed" politician who turned the Oval Office into a "playpen for the sexual freedom of the poster child of the 1960s." It’s difficult to understand how Robertson could tell Trump recently, “You inspire us all.” - Article excerpt from: Trump-Loving Christians Owe Bill Clinton an Apology

 

[The Barbarian]

The televangelist Pat Robertson once called Clinton a "debauched, debased, and defamed" politician who turned the Oval Office into a "playpen for the sexual freedom of the poster child of the 1960s." It’s difficult to understand how Robertson could tell Trump recently, “You inspire us all.”

Perhaps you misunderstood. Maybe he thought he was praising Clinton's sexual behavior. It would explain his enthusiasm for Trump, wouldn't it? (WFTH-I)

 

[GACfan]

Perhaps you misunderstood. Maybe he thought he was praising Clinton's sexual behavior. It would explain his enthusiasm for Trump, wouldn't it? (WFTH-I)

He forgot to add "macho talk" in his praise of Clinton's sexual behavior.

 

[hislegacy]

Seems the founders son does not agree

'My Father Would Have Been Disappointed’: Franklin Graham Fires Back at Christianity Today's ‘Elitist Liberal’ Call for President Trump's Removal

 

[redleghunter]

Graham's comments are simply following the party line. That means he is simply a politician.

Are you basing this on his actual comments which I posted on page 1 or the comments by posters?

 

[redleghunter]

In April 1999, about two months after being acquitted by the Senate, Clinton was cited by Federal District Judge Susan Webber Wright for civil contempt of court for his "willful failure" to obey her repeated orders to testify truthfully in the Paula Jones sexual harassment lawsuit.

Yes not telling the truth in a court of law is perjury. Glad I could clarify that.

 

[redleghunter]

You may be a preacher with your spiritual pride
You may be a city councilman taking bribes on the side
You may be workin’ in a barbershop, you may know how to cut hair
You may be somebody’s mistress, may be somebody’s heir

But you’re gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You’re gonna have to serve somebody
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you’re gonna have to serve somebody
Bob Dylan

Graham no longer serves the Lord. His new master is the Republican National Committee.

Pastor Bob Dylan?

 

[redleghunter]

Trump has made it clear that he never asks God for forgiveness:

Moderator Frank Luntz asked Trump whether he has ever asked God for forgiveness for his actions.
"I am not sure I have. I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so," he said. "I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't."
Trump said that while he hasn't asked God for forgiveness, he does participate in Holy Communion.
"When I drink my little wine -- which is about the only wine I drink -- and have my little cracker, I guess that is a form of asking for forgiveness, and I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed," he said. "I think in terms of 'let's go on and let's make it right.'"
Trump: I hope I don't have to ask 'for much forgiveness' from God

That was over 4 years ago. Or would you require a confessional cam testimony.

Remember as we measure it out, it will be measured out to us.

 

[redleghunter]

I just showed you that there was no equivalence. Clinton didn't make a political payoff to keep his behavior quiet. Trump did. And that was a felony. Clinton's affair wasn't a crime at all.

So a false equivalence. I can’t help with what you want to read and consider.

 

[redleghunter]

Nope. The Constitution gives her the power to send the articles if impeachment over when she decides to do it.

No this is not true.

She can wait until she's satisfied that there will be fair trial procedures. Otherwise, she could wait as long as necessary.

No she is not the President of the Senate. The Senate cannot make demands on the House and the House cannot make demands on the Senate. Each chamber executes its constitutional duties.

Forbidding the Senate to exercise its duly constituted duties is obstruction. Holding the articles without sending to the Senate violates Trump’s Sixth Amendment right to a speedy trial.

 

[redleghunter]

I'll admit that I'm somewhat impressed by all the concentrated and determined effort that has gone into defending Trump.

You are always free to address me directly.

I like Graham am not justifying the President’s distant sexual transgressions going back 15 years. He’s been married to his wife since 2005 if memory serves.

I take issue with the false equivalencies offered and the actual context of comments.

It’s very easy to point at one situation like adultery or fornication and apply it to every situation in human history.

What you and others proposed was an easy talking point and does not hold up upon further examination. If it did you would have addressed me instead of an intermediary.

So please, address what I wrote and we can have a discussion.

 

[GACfan]

You are always free to address me directly.

No, I am not.

Christian Forums TOS: Address only the content of the post and not the poster.

 

[redleghunter]

"When I drink my little wine -- which is about the only wine I drink -- and have my little cracker, I guess that is a form of asking for forgiveness, and I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed," he said. "I think in terms of 'let's go on and let's make it right.'"

So he does ask for forgiveness as part of his church liturgy.

As we measure it out it will be measured out to us.

 

[redleghunter]

No, I am not.

Christian Forums TOS: Address only the content of the post and not the poster.

What did you think I meant by addressing me directly? My posts.

You are at liberty to address my posts.

This is the one where I engage you directly:

Trump Should Be Removed from Office