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Health care problems and solutions in politics

MorkandMindy

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Does anyone have specific ideas for how to make a single payer system work in America?

One thing the US doesn't seem to be considering is a free market system. I've been battling with Medicaid and Medicare for a few years now and all those people employed in the social security system have done a sterling job of making it incomprehensible and complicated far beyond anyone's worst nightmares.

SSA 1905 where I think I eventually found the best rules to use against the bureaucrats, has a first line 3 pages long, and there are many other documents equally long covering medicaid and anything the government bureaucrats are involved in, even income tax. I never knew what the Republicans were talking about when they talked about 'big government', but now I sure do.

They mean needlessly complex beyond any possible excuse
 
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GodLovesCats

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Routine doctor appointments should still be covered by Medicare and Medicaid. At every appointment, my mom is charged a $40 or $45 copay no matter what it is for even with Humana Medicare so that needs to be considered. She always complains it makes appointments expensive. "I don't want to pay $45." But no health insurance plan needs to cover every little thing.
 
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GodLovesCats

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Did your parents have any other option besides whatever company covered you at the time? I've never had "options" when it came to healthcare. Whatever employer I was with to earn an income, there was only one choice.

No, I was just saying it was not BCBS.

With Humana, my mom can choose plans with or without Medicare.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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Yes, but the insurance company's job is to make sure expecting moms don't have to pay for anyrhing and save innocent babies at risk of being killed.

The insurance company’s job is to make their shareholders more money. Anything actually going to helping the health of a human being is a bonus but ultimately the goal is to make their shareholders money. Welcome to the world of for profit health care where when you cough, someone sees dollar signs.
 
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stevil

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Social programs, as they are designed today, keep people in a cycle of systemic poverty.
It is a risk. You give people a regular income and they may become dependant on that income, they may find it not worth giving up their time and effort when they already have an income.

So a government also needs to address this issue. It isn't enough just to give away money.
But instead of just not giving money (with the consequences of the homeless, the school-less, people dying of treatable illnesses) you put measures into place to assist people with getting skills, with looking for jobs, with gaining confidence.
You also seek out those most at risk, those who might fall between the cracks into a long term dependency on state support, and you put even more effort into helping those people get onto their feet.

Rather than let people rot, you reach out and help them. That's what a functioning society does.
Also providing a safety net, allows those people with entrepreneurial ideas and tendencies to take risks. With risk can come rewards but also can come failure. If there is no safety net then people will be less likely to take risks. If you are of the attitude that losers deserve to be without and society shouldn't care if they rot and die, then you are forsaking success as well. Many successful people have also endured a string of failures, it's just the way it goes.

In NZ, Peter Jackson could have been considered a loser, he was wasting his hard earned money, by working/playing on the week-ends making a splatter movie with his friends. Blood and gore galore with an alien invasion wanting to make humans into an intergalactic delicacy. For years he toiled, wasting all his savings on a "movie" that probably wasn't going to see any success. The NZ government wasn't into supporting splatter movies, but they decided to help him out anyway, and now NZ has over a 1 billion dollar movie industry. Sometimes, having a government helping out can reap massive rewards.
 
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stevil

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I routinely drive without seat belts and encourage my passengers to do the same because I lice in the UK and would not have to pay for my treatment.
Um, that's the most stupidest thing I've read in a very long time.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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One thing the US doesn't seem to be considering is a free market system. I've been battling with Medicaid and Medicare for a few years now and all those people employed in the social security system have done a sterling job of making it incomprehensible and complicated far beyond anyone's worst nightmares.

SSA 1905 where I think I eventually found the best rules to use against the bureaucrats, has a first line 3 pages long, and there are many other documents equally long covering medicaid and anything the government bureaucrats are involved in, even income tax. I never knew what the Republicans were talking about when they talked about 'big government', but now I sure do.

They mean needlessly complex beyond any possible excuse

A free market system doesn’t work for health care. In normal free market systems the supplier can charge as much as they want and the buyer can simply say that is too much and walk away from the transaction. No one ultimately needs a big screen TV, they can wait until the supplier lowers the price.

With health care that doesn’t work because there are times where it is get the surgery now or die. The supplier can charge whatever price they want and the buyer cannot say no so prices can rise out of control and the buyer’s only recourse is death. That is a stupid and worst of all deadly system.
 
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MorkandMindy

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WHERE'S THE MONEY GOING?!?!?

Only proves my point: Get the government out of my pockets and get the government out of my body.

Any party backed by middle class administrators - as opposed to the middle class technologists, engineers and scientists who usually do a useful job - is always out to improve the pay, benefits and security of pen pushers. The federal government alone has 2 million employees, and state, county and city governments have a bunch more.

I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE MONEY IS GOING!

(I copied your capitalization, imitation being the most sincere form of compliment)
 
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MorkandMindy

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A free market system doesn’t work for health care. In normal free market systems the supplier can charge as much as they want and the buyer can simply say that is too much and walk away from the transaction. No one ultimately needs a big screen TV, they can wait until the supplier lowers the price.

With health care that doesn’t work because there are times where it is get the surgery now or die. The supplier can charge whatever price they want and the buyer cannot say no so prices can rise out of control and the buyer’s only recourse is death. That is a stupid and worst of all deadly system.

Not in my case. I've been months without my blood pressure medication, the medical system includes a lot of people in my category who are very inexpensive but have simple long term problems. My medication costs 8 dollars a month. I'm not allowed to buy it without a doctor's prescription which requires a doctors appointment and that means a yearly one because I haven't had one for a long time, and that costs big money.

I can drive 5 hours down into Mexico and get the prescription for a lot less, only it isn't accepted in the US, because of the monopoly given to US doctors.

The fault with the free market system is usually monopolies, especially government imposed ones.
 
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MorkandMindy

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well yes, the US system is so bad any change is likely to make it better, except for just pouring in a huge amount more money as Elizabeth Warren is advocating

Allowing a free market would be better, nobody would suffer, you don't have to go to the less expensive clinic in town run by Australians or British or Dutch or Mexican or whatever (sorry, I was looking at the list of restaurants), you can still do everything you do at present.

Single payer also allows for price control and better efficiency. I did live in England and the NHS worked really well despite having to care for anyone who comes over from anywhere in the EU, a lot of EU countries charge so they go to England and overload the system there.

yes, single payer would also work a whole lot better than what we have right now

we have the system we have right now because Congress gets kickbacks off it, it is pretty much the worst of all possible systems
 
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GodLovesCats

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Rather than let people rot, you reach out and help them. That's what a functioning society does. Also providing a safety net, allows those people with entrepreneurial ideas and tendencies to take risks. With risk can come rewards but also can come failure. If there is no safety net then people will be less likely to take risks. If you are of the attitude that losers deserve to be without and society shouldn't care if they rot and die, then you are forsaking success as well. Many successful people have also endured a string of failures, it's just the way it goes.

It is impossible to solve everyone's problems in a fallen world, but there certainly are ways to help others get everything they need and at the same time make sure nobody wants to depend on govenrment for all of their money. On topic, this includes going beyond the classroom to teach people about exercising, diet, and sleep benefits. Not just doing it right, but why they should. But that is only a starting point.
 
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Silverback

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Yes. Enact single-payer coverage only for catastrophic expenses. It would cover medical costs over something like $4,000-5,000 per adult, and maybe $500 per child. This would replace all other health insurance for medical costs of this magnitude. This doesn't have to be a huge, national bureaucracy. I'd prefer a regional arrangement. Groups of 7 or 8 contiguous states would establish a catastrophic health insurance fund. Everyone in the region would pay a premium--or you can call it a tax--into the fund. Medical risk is not a factor. Employers would also pay through a FICA like payroll tax. The fund is responsible for covering medical costs over the deductible. Then, private insurers can sell optional supplemental plans that could cover the deductible, or experimental treatments, or any benefits someone is willing to pay for. This arrangement is actually a hybrid single-payer system. It's based on the Medicare model, which is already well accepted and very popular.

There are several advantages to this kind of single payer coverage:
1) It's non-profit. No premiums must pay for a profit margin, or exorbitant CEO salaries.
2) Having as many individuals, and businesses as possible in each region pay into the fund spreads the risk as widely as possible. A large risk pool lowers each payer's cost as much as possible. That's a basic actuarial principle. And that's also why it must be mandatory. Imagine if 20 million or so working people, and businesses are contributing to the same insurance fund. There will definitely be a cost saving compared to the premiums people and employers in smaller risk pools must pay. And it allows people which chronic, pre-existing conditions to have coverage at the same price as everyone else.
3) It has a potential to lower medical fees. A single payer can negotiate prices with providers much more effectively than can many small insurers. One of the biggest misunderstandings is that single-payer insurance is anti-competitive. It's wrong because insurance companies are not really sellers of a product. Fundamentally, they are buyers. Their business is paying for health care. When you have dozens of payers for a product--especially one like medical care with a high, inelastic demand--there is no pressure on the sellers of that product--who are hospitals, providers, drug and medical equipment manufacturers, etc-- to keep prices low. But when there is only one buyer, then there is real price competition among hospitals and doctors and drug companies. The buying power of a monopsony lowers prices. You can't go overboard with this. If you stiff providers, you'll lose them. (Which is a problem with some states' Medicaid programs.) But a sensible one-payer system, that pays fair and reasonable fees, has the best chance to keep medical costs in check.
4) Insurance for catastrophic illness or injury is the only kind of coverage everyone really needs. I do think people should be responsible for their own initial health care. If they want coverage for that too, then they can buy that themselves. Limiting publicly funded coverage to high cost illness reinforces the idea that health care is not free, and social welfare programs are just a safety net.

This is just an overview. Good health care will never be cheap. But I think this a rational and sensible approach that has the ability to keep costs reasonable and maintain quality.

Sorry for the long post.

What would you think of this?

The U.S. Department of Defense has a health Insurance program called Tricare, within this program there are many choices on different plans, but what it does is divide the US into regions, the Government grants money to existing health insurance companies, and they manage the day to day functioning of the plan. The DOD functions in a regulatory capacity. Everyone pays very reasonable copays, and premiums. I use it, it works well, and could be used as an example for a public offering on the heath exchange.
 
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GodLovesCats

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Is it just me or does "free market" mean what we already have with private insurance companies?

What I want to see is the end of health insurance companies telling people which medications to take and doctors to visit while jacking up prices if the doctors change prescriptions of the same drugs, hearing aids and tests being covered, no more deductibles, and lower copays at the time of service.

Yes, insurance companies do decide which medications I can take, including doses, formulas, and pills per month. I could not take a sleeping pill for months because of Humana. At one point, I took Canadian anti-seizure pills. Trying to get the right doses for me was almost impossible only because of Humana.
 
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Larniavc

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From your link:



To add:



This is the most alarming:

Federal and state funding show only 6 percent of block grants for "maternal and child health" actually go to the health of mothers.

WHERE'S THE MONEY GOING?!?!?

Only proves my point: Get the government out of my pockets and get the government out of my body.
The money is going to the insurance companies as profit.

That’s what happens in a for profit health industry.

If you remove the profit motive that problem is resolved like in all the other countries where that happens.
 
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98cwitr

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The money is going to the insurance companies as profit.

That’s what happens in a for profit health industry.

If you remove the profit motive that problem is resolved like in all the other countries where that happens.

I'm going to need you back up such a claim. You're suggesting 94% of the grant money is pure profit for the health industry? I just don't see that being even remotely factual.
 
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MorkandMindy

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The for-profit motive is amazingly destructive.

Way back when I did have a yearly medical in England when I came in the office a nurse took basic readings and sugar in urine and electrocardiogram and put all the data into my computer record and 5 minutes later the doctor called me in and asked a few questions and about any side effects from the medication and I was out with a renewed prescription 40 minutes later and a 'still OK' for my heart.

I had one over here and it was 25 min with a technician ticking boxes, took blood pressure and temperature, then 25 minutes with the doctor ticking boxes and then a form with some checks to do somewhere that does blood tests then a couple of weeks and the results came then a discussion with the doctor, same result except no ECG, and far more expensive, but they could charge far more money

and I got my prescription renewed
 
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MorkandMindy

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Is it just me or does "free market" mean what we already have with private insurance companies?

...

Good question
I see it as where there are huge profits being made, as in a for-profit with no competition, the free market would allow in competition and hopefully the prices would balance out as more providers got into the lucrative parts of the market, so I see the free market as an essential component to counter the extortion for-profit would otherwise be able to take.

My answer therefore is a medical care system should have some price constraints whether government imposed or free market or both.
 
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jayem

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What would you think of this?

The U.S. Department of Defense has a health Insurance program called Tricare, within this program there are many choices on different plans, but what it does is divide the US into regions, the Government grants money to existing health insurance companies, and they manage the day to day functioning of the plan. The DOD functions in a regulatory capacity. Everyone pays very reasonable copays, and premiums. I use it, it works well, and could be used as an example for a public offering on the heath exchange.

That's not unreasonable. But I'm not sure why you need insurance companies as managers. Seems to me that middlemen just add to the premium. It has to be cheaper if non-profit regional insurance funds directly handle claims and pay providers. Do providers bill Tricare, or do they bill the contracted insurance carrier? As a provider myself, I know it would be much easier if every patient's bill was sent to a single payer, rather than having to deal with multiple different insurers.
 
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