None of These Diseases: I am the Lord who heals you.

[Guojing]

The key word here is "gift". It's a crucial word, because it defines something "given" to someone because they "lack". It may seem inconsequential, but it is not. If Jesus was "gifted" with something it means that He is the equivalent of "us", who "lack", and that is why we are "given" something because we "need" it. Otherwise we would not "need" it.

Jesus Christ, The "Healer" does not need a "gift" of healing, "given" to Him. He IS THE HEALER.

If He WERE "needy" as we are, He would need a Savior as well.

Okay, if you are so worried about that term "gift", I can drop it. I was not using that term in the same way as you are using anyway.

During the 4 Gospels, Jesus healed, often in a manner that does not depend on whether the receiver had the faith or not, to show the Jews he was indeed their promised Messiah.

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
The key word here is "gift". It's a crucial word, because it defines something "given" to someone because they "lack". It may seem inconsequential, but it is not. If Jesus was "gifted" with something it means that He is the equivalent of "us", who "lack", and that is why we are "given" something because we "need" it. Otherwise we would not "need" it.

Jesus Christ, The "Healer" does not need a "gift" of healing, "given" to Him. He IS THE HEALER.

If He WERE "needy" as we are, He would need a Savior as well.

Okay, if you are so worried about that term "gift", I can drop it. I was not using that term in the same way as you are using anyway.

During the 4 Gospels, Jesus healed, often in a manner that does not depend on whether the receiver had the faith or not, to show the Jews he was indeed their promised Messiah.

i emphasized it because Jesus being "given" a "gift" ("needing" anything-like we are "needy") compromises Jesus the Christ's "divinity", and/or questions it. This is taught in Gnosticism-that Jesus was not/is not divine, and that Father God is "evil".

Thank you for the clarity.

 

[RaymondG]

God's promise to ancient Israel was that if they abide in His Torah then the plagues He brought down upon Egypt would not befall His people.

This was always the conditional within the Old Covenant: That the people would abide by the Torah, and they would be God's people and nation--but if they turned away from God's way then they would face judgment. This message is repeated, not only in the Torah itself, but through the mouths of the prophets throughout the ancient centuries.

It is not a blanket promise that people won't get sick or experience hardship if they get all their affairs in order.

Such a reading is atrocious and grotesque.

-CryptoLutheran

"9 Because thou hast made the Lord, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways."

His word is truth for all who believe it. Therefore, if you do not believe it, then it is true that you will be sick.

Is there harm in others trying to obtain the health which is within their right? Is it wrong to ask for health and receive it, when this is what the Father asked us to do?

 

[RaymondG]

I am not falsely accusing you at all, the idea that you think the passage is meant for everyone is in your OP and has been commented on by others. Now if you weren't doing that than I am sorry and I was not flaming anyone but giving my observations.

What sections of the bible do you feel does apply to us? I was under the impression the the whole book was for my understanding and application....

Yes, but not necessarily physically.

If you are healed within....the outside must follow. On earth as it is in heaven.....

There are people who do not get sick - and who seem to have easy/good lives - who aren't even Christians.

Correct, as the rain fall on the just as well as the unjust. The law are available to benefit all whole choose to follow them... yet......they that are born from above...., rises above the law.....no longer to be under it....

 

[RaymondG]

Never said he was.
But he can heal us without conditions - without bargaining, "you do your bit, then I'll do mine." His healing, like his grace and love, are unconditional.

The truth is, we are already healed......any conditions that need to be removed, relate to our personal barriers which restricts the realization of this healing......the most common one being that of unbelief.

If that were true then every Christian who was saved would be physically healed and well and a non Christian would be healed as soon as they were saved.

You are assuming that the announcement of the following and belief in christian doctrine, makes one heir to the promise given to those born of the spirit. These two are separate

Thousands would believe in Jesus to get good physical health - especially in countries where people have to pay for treatment.

Yes they believed.....but do you know whether they received the spirit since they believed? If not....are you sure they should be the standard for which we measure all in Christ?

"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost."

If that were true then every Christian who was saved would be physically healed and well and a non Christian would be healed as soon as they were saved.
Thousands would believe in Jesus to get good physical health - especially in countries where people have to pay for treatment.

see above

Fact is, some Christians have an illness/disability and are not healed from it in this life.

see above

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

During the 4 Gospels, Jesus healed, often in a manner that does not depend on whether the receiver had the faith or not, to show the Jews he was indeed their promised Messiah.

In all the posts in the Scriptures you yourself quoted,
Jesus showed the disciples He is the promised Messiah,
but did not show the nation of Israel, not the other Jews,
which also is completely in harmony with all Scripture.

 

[renniks]

Usually a promise from God has only one requirement. In this case the promise has four requirements. We have a covenant relationship with God. If we do our part we can be sure God will do His part.

So if one keeps the requirements, he will remain healthy forever?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So if one keeps the requirements, he will remain healthy forever?

Starting when ?

Do you think (I'm sure you don't), there is ANY illness or sickness IN HEAVEN in the life to come ?

 

[RaymondG]

So if one keeps the requirements, he will remain healthy forever?

Yes, and even death itself is removed? Do you believe this?

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

At least one man in the OT was told: STAY in <such and such a town> and your life will be spared. If you leave that town, you will be killed.
Guess what he did ?
Yep.
He left that town.
He was killed.

If (whosoever) LIVETH in Jesus, their life will be spared .... no worries at all....

 

[Guojing]

In all the posts in the Scriptures you yourself quoted,
Jesus showed the disciples He is the promised Messiah,
but did not show the nation of Israel, not the other Jews,
which also is completely in harmony with all Scripture.

You have this very weird belief there. I think what you meant was that he only specifically revealed to the 12 that he will die and be raised again on the 3rd day

But as for him preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, I have already shown you Matthew 4:17.

But if that is not enough, let's use Luke 7

Jesus and John the Baptist
18 John’s disciples told him about all these things. Calling two of them, 19 he sent them to the Lord to ask, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”
20 When the men came to Jesus, they said, “John the Baptist sent us to you to ask, ‘Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?’”

21 At that very time Jesus cured many who had diseases, sicknesses and evil spirits, and gave sight to many who were blind. 22 So he replied to the messengers, “Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy[a] are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor. 23 Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.”

Notice something interesting in the above account. Jesus did not answer his disciples directly and immediately. He performed many miracles at the very same time when the question was uttered. Then he replied back to his disciples a passage from Isaiah 35:3-6

Strengthen the feeble hands, steady the knees that give way; say to those with fearful hearts, “Be strong, do not fear, your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you.”

Then will the eyes of the blind be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped. Then will the lame leap like a deer, and the mute tongue shout for joy

This passage was supposed to be a prophecy of the coming Messiah. Prior to Jesus on Earth, there was no one that was capable of performing all these miracles of curing blindness, deafness, dumbness and lameness.

Thus, healing the Jews from their physical disease is an important sign, to all of them who have memorized the OT, that their Messiah is here.

 

[renniks]

Starting when ?

Do you think (I'm sure you don't), there is ANY illness or sickness IN HEAVEN in the life to come ?

I assumed we were talking about our current physical bodies. Physical death is a requirement to get to where we will never be sick, unless Jesus returns in our life time.

 

[renniks]

Yes, and even death itself is removed? Do you believe this?

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

We all die physically. Jesus was talking spiritual life.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Physical death is a requirement to get to where we will never be sick

Just FOR FUN, LOOK UP

the Creator's Promise(s) throughout the whole BIBLE.....

AND also, WHO bore our sins ?

 

[renniks]

Just FOR FUN, LOOK UP

the Creator's Promise(s) throughout the whole BIBLE.....

AND also, WHO bore our sins ?

Look what up? I'm not sure what point you are making.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Look what up? I'm not sure what point you are making.

Did Yahuweh the Creator Make Any Promises ?

 

[renniks]

Did Yahuweh the Creator Make Any Promises ?

Sure. He promised to send us the Messiah.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Sure. He promised to send us the Messiah.

COOL! GREAT! WONDERFUL!
Did the Messiah bear our sins (as written)?
Of course!
What else ?

 

[RaymondG]

We all die physically. Jesus was talking spiritual life.

You will die physically. Let others decide for themselves if they would like to enter death with you.....be transformed from death to life in Christ never to die again.... You hold the keys, whether you know it or not......yet if you choose not to enter into life.....please try and not hinder those that would.

 

[renniks]

You will die physically. Let others decide for themselves if they would like to enter death with you.....be transformed from death to life in Christ never to die again.... You hold the keys, whether you know it or not......yet if you choose not to enter into life.....please try and not hinder those that would.

I have already entered into spiritual life. I don't know what you mean how about letting others enter death with me?