The Four Aspects of Salvation.

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But you are trying to fish for something that is off topic to the thread. This thread is not about where the Theological terms come from.

No, it is THE TOPIC of the thread. I think YOU posted it. And it is good to TEST EVERYTHING - so if it is a false teaching/idea, or if it is a True teaching/idea, it is proven true (or false) and known. ...
Hopefully the only ideas we believe and accept are from above, from the Father.
All other ones are not to be believed nor accepted.
THUS, the origin of the topic, idea, etc, is very pertinent.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Obedience to law. The gospel is not law.

I think most or many other posters think "legalism" is misuse of the law. Obedience to the law is required of everyone subject to Jesus.

 

[Dave L]

I think most or many other posters think "legalism" is misuse of the law. Obedience to the law is required of everyone subject to Jesus.

Jesus fulfilled the law for us. Based on this he gave us a new birth that also fulfills the law through love. Obedience cannot save, in never could. But it is proof of the New Birth that is salvation itself.

 

[reformed05]

God did not see anything worth saving in the human race. Had you been worth saving, you glory and God splits it with you.

I don't understand what you are saying. It doesn't appear to have anything to do with what I said. Which is that God's choices are never arbitrary.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Have you ever met Him?

I would not be here if I didn't meet the Lord Jesus Christ.
I used to be an atheist, and I received a comic tract called, "This Was Your Life" back in 1992. When I accepted Christ as my Savior, it was like a love, joy, and peace I had never known before came washing over me like a summer rain. I wanted everyone to know the love, joy, and peace that I have.

Seen Jesus piercing eyes of love that with just a smile He told me I was going to be ok? Have you had your dad show you how powe

Did you have a vision, dream, etc.?
Anyways, the problem your current view of Soteriology is that you are not addressing John 14:15. Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments. How exactly do you believe those words by Jesus? Meaning, how do you interpret them?

like I've told you before, you can believe whatever you want.

I believe the Bible and the Bible alone. So yes, I will believe in that and that is what I want.

I get disgusted at people saying they know God but they do evil.

So we should be on the same page, but we are not.

I never question others salvation as I don't know anyones background;

Well, everyone can repent. But if a person is currently sinning, they are not saved while they are sinning or doing such evil. For Paul mentions a list of particular sins, and then he says that they that do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21). Why would Paul say this?

Most today teach you can sin and still be saved one some level. Let me ask you. Was King David saved WHILE he committed his sins of adultery and murder? How were the believing widows in 1 Timothy 5 able to turn back aside to Satan? You cannot turn back to some person or place unless you once been there and left it and or them. Rick cannot turn back to Pittsburgh airport unless he was in Pittsburgh airport. Martha cannot turn back to being a school teacher, unless she was once a school teacher before. Bob cannot turn back to be with her wife for the summer instead of planning to take a summer job in another state unless he had a wife to return to.

I never question others salvation that's very personal.

So George Sodini (a believer in Jesus who murdered a bunch of people and took his own life) could have been saved?

I even left a church because they preached twice on how someone should dress in a suit, you know, to look presentable. I only care about others heart, which is what my heavenly Father cares too.

I believe there are holiness churches that make false man made rules or traditions. But holiness churches are not in the majority of churches here in America. Most believe in Belief Alone-ism (Which involves some kind of allowance where a believer can sin on some level and still be saved). Jesus said, narrow is the way that leads unto life, and few be there that find it. (Matthew 7:14).

Anyways, we can have an assurance in knowing the Lord, if we find that we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3). 1 John 2:4 says the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them. So that is how you can tell the difference. The Bible tells you.

 

[Dave L]

I don't understand what you are saying. It doesn't appear to have anything to do with what I said. Which is that God's choices are never arbitrary.

If not arbitrary, what does he base his choice on? Arbitrary = based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Obedience to the Law saved Israel from destruction. Disobedience brought the destruction of AD 70. How could Peter be speaking of salvation in Christ when he knew only by grace does God save people?

“And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.” Acts 2:40 (KJV 1900)

But their acceptance of Law with the threat of the destruction of the temple in 70AD is not the context. At least, that is not in my Bible. Here is the context:

37 "Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."
(Acts of the Apostles 2:37-41).​

As we can see, repentance for the remission of sins and baptism (Acceptance of the Lord for the first time) is the context of verse 40. Three thousand souls were added to the apostles that day. Meaning, three thousand souls accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. That is the context of verse 40 and it is not in what your talking about.

 

[Dave L]

But their acceptance of Law with the threat of the destruction of the temple in 70AD is not the context. At least, that is not in my Bible. Here is the context:

37 "Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."
(Acts of the Apostles 2:37-41).​

As we can see, repentance for the remission of sins and baptism (Acceptance of the Lord for the first time) is the context of verse 40. Three thousand souls were added to the apostles that day. Meaning, three thousand souls accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. That is the context of verse 40 and it is not in what your talking about.

These were born again Jews who asked for instructions BECAUSE they believed (were saved according to Jesus).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Obedience to law. The gospel is not law.

Yes, very true. There are two aspects of salvation. The aspect of salvation involving the gospel is not by the Law and or works, but by faith and by grace (mercy). But the next step or stage in the salvation process is by obedience to the words of Jesus and His followers (Which is not going back to the Torah or the 613 laws found in the Law of Moses) but it is in following what Jesus and His followers taught. It is a part of the great commission to make disciples and to teach them everything that Christ commanded of them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

These were born again Jews who asked for instructions BECAUSE they believed (were saved according to Jesus).

What verse or passage says that?

 

[Dave L]

Yes, very true. There are two aspects of salvation. The aspect of salvation involving the gospel is not by the Law and or works, but by faith and by grace (mercy). But the next step or stage in the salvation process is by obedience to the words of Jesus and His followers (Which is not going back to the Torah or the 613 laws found in the Law of Moses) but it is in following what Jesus and His followers taught. It is a part of the great commission to make disciples and to teach them everything that Christ commanded of them.

But this does not save. God saves and gives us a new nature that lives a holy lifestyle.

 

[Dave L]

What verse or passage says that?

You will know them by their fruits. If they didn't believe they would not have asked.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But this does not save. God saves and gives us a new nature that lives a holy lifestyle.

But this statement is not true in light of what the Bible says.

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).


We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

Not sure how these verses line up with your belief. They appear to contradict what you are saying here.

 

[Dave L]

But this statement is not true in light of what the Bible says.

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).


We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
   
   
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

Not sure how these verses line up with your belief. They appear to contradict what you are saying here.

Not by works, but by our new nature.

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You will know them by their fruits. If they didn't believe they would not have asked.

Nope. That verse from Jesus in no way says what you just said about the 3,000 souls that repented and were baptized in the name of Jesus. Their being baptized into the name of Jesus was an acceptance of Christ. Their repentance was seeking forgiveness with God.

 

[Dave L]

Nope. That verse from Jesus in no way says what you just said about the 3,000 souls that repented and were baptized in the name of Jesus. Their being baptized into the name of Jesus was an acceptance of Christ. Their repentance was seeking forgiveness with God.

These were believers converting to the new covenant.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not by works, but by our new nature.

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

Again, you are not reading and believing those verses I showed to you. Please go back and tell me how they work in your belief. Please give me a word for word commentary on those verses. They are not talking about some by-product of some kind of forced regenerative action in those verses. Those verses are telling us to do things like "Continue in the faith, continue in God's grace..." (Which in your view is not possible).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

These were believers converting to the new covenant.

No. They were not believers in Jesus before they repented and were baptized. They were open to hearing the truth, but they were not believers yet until they repented and they were baptized into Christ. It says 3,000 souls were added to them that day. They became a part of the body of Christ.

 

[Dave L]

Again, you are not reading and believing those verses I showed to you. Please go back and tell me how they work in your belief. Please give me a word for word commentary on those verses. They are not talking about some by-product of some kind of forced regenerative action in those verses. Those verses are telling us to do things like "Continue in the faith, continue in God's grace..." (Which in your view is not possible).

Faith, like Abraham had, is a Fruit of the Holy Spirit. These were all born again Jews like Abraham.

 

[Dave L]

No. They were not believers in Jesus before they repented and were baptized. They were open to hearing the truth, but they were not believers yet until they repented and they were baptized into Christ. It says 3,000 souls were added to them that day. They became a part of the body of Christ.

Jesus = YHWH = they believed in him from times of old.