Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

[FineLinen]

I'm not following the logic here at all. The coming of the Holy Spirit (The Comforter) was promised by by the Lord in the Upper Room. The intitial 'baptism' is a one time event that comes to the believer at conversion, this is synonomous with being baptized into Chriist (1 Cor. 12:12).

Dear Mark: like so much of our God (if not all) the present progressive tense is encapsulated. In the case of the "upon" relationship, it is litterly "be being". In fact, the anointing of His Spirit is NOT a one time experience, but an ongoing experience in the present tense!

 

[zoidar]

Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

Understanding the Baptism with the Holy Spirit in Acts is difficult. But I found the keys are the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:27 and the Samarians Acts 8:5. In essence, all had the Holy Spirit but only the Samarians had the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

These received the gift of the Holy Spirit according to Peter in Acts 2:28 just as we do today. But the Samarians also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands which the Eunuch did not.

On Pentecost God baptized the 12 Apostles with the Holy Spirit who also spoke in tongues. According to Acts 2:38 the eunuch and the Samarians had the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But Philip could not provide the baptism of the Holy Spirit for either. Acts reveals that beyond the two outpourings, only the Apostles through the laying on of their hands could baptize people in the Holy Spirit. It was the proof of apostleship Hebrews 2:4.

When the Apostles visited the Samarian converts, they laid their hands on them baptizing them in the Holy Spirit. But this was not the case with the Eunuch. It says he went on his way rejoicing after Philip baptized him in water.

So the Samarians and the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But only the Samarians received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through the Apostles’ hands.

About 7 years later, God poured out the Holy Spirit on the gentiles at Cornelius’ house which resulted in their speaking in tongues just as the Apostles did at Pentecost.

Scripture doesn’t mention the 3000 converts on the day of Pentecost as baptized with the Holy Spirit. Nor the 5,000 converts days later. But we might assume those whom the Apostles baptized in water also received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through their hands. But anyone baptized by someone other than an apostle would have been like the Eunuch who received only the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Later, Paul preached to the disciples at Ephesus Acts 19:1. These like the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit. But they also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands the same way the Samarians did.

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit provided God’s word through tongues and prophecy until the New Testament canon became complete. How do we know this? Paul says scripture thoroughly equips us 2 Timothy 3:17. Paul said tongues and prophecy provided only partial knowledge 1 Corinthians 13:9. So it makes sense scripture replaced them when completed.

Beyond Acts, the Corinthians no doubt received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit through Paul’s hands. And Paul mentioned he wanted to visit the Romans to give spiritual gifts to them too Romans 1:11. Paul mentions laying his hands on Timothy who also received a gift 2 Timothy 1:6.

So we can say scripture directly supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for those ministered to by an apostle. That it was not for all. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit passed into history with the rest of the apostles Hebrews 2:4 because only they provided it as a sign of their authority. And that scripture replaced the fragmentary gifts of tongues and prophecy with the completed revelation. And we can confidently say believers from Pentecost on have the gift of Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:38, but not the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Just as the Eunuch and believers since then.

What to do then if you were baptized in the Holy Spirit?

 

[Dave L]

What to do then if you were baptized in the Holy Spirit?

No body is. They confuse the New Birth with the baptism.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

I had a friend that told me healing was not for today. He wanted healed, he needed healed but he thought healing ended with the early church. Then he died because he was not able to receive the healing God had for him. I was not actually there when he died. The pastor at the church talked to me about it because he was there to do what he could for the guy.

Moses tells us that the latter rain to bring in the harvest is greater then the former rain. So the annotating at the end of the Church age will be greater then the annotating in the beginning. "then I will provide rain for your land in season, the autumn and spring rains, that you may gather your grain, new wine, and oil." (Deu11:14) We may not see this but as we get closer to the harvest we will. Because clearly the world is getting more evil and it takes a greater annotating from God to overcome that. If you deny the annointing then you have to deny that there is more evil in the world and that people need God's help to overcome.

 

[Dave L]

I had a friend that told me healing was not for today. He wanted healed, he needed healed but he thought healing ended with the early church. Then he died because he was not able to receive the healing God had for him. I was not actually there when he died. The pastor at the church talked to me about it because he was there to do what he could for the guy.

Moses tells us that the latter rain to bring in the harvest is greater then the former rain. So the annotating at the end of the Church age will be greater then the annotating in the beginning. "then I will provide rain for your land in season, the autumn and spring rains, that you may gather your grain, new wine, and oil." (Deu11:14) We may not see this but as we get closer to the harvest we will. Because clearly the world is getting more evil and it takes a greater annotating from God to overcome that. If you deny the annointing then you have to deny that there is more evil in the world and that people need God's help to overcome.

God still heals. You are confusing the signs and wonders of the Apostles, now gone, with the prayer of faith that heals.

 

[BCsenior]

God still heals. You are confusing the signs and wonders of the Apostles, now gone,
with the prayer of faith that heals.

Is 1 Corinthians 13:10 your excuse for your belief in cessationism?

 

[Dave L]

Is 1 Corinthians 13:10 your excuse for your belief in cessationism?

Scripture reveals several reasons.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You are confusing the signs and wonders of the Apostles, now gone,

How can they be gone when Jesus said they will last until the end of the age. "18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father,and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:19

 

[Blade]

Thanks but.. hard to follow your logic. For me it happen exactly as it did in the Word. They asked if I wanted it.. I said yes. They read some verses about the holy Spirit. Laid hands on me and prayed. Then just stopped and said "you go it". I felt nothing. I got up and as I went to sit down.. PRAISE GOD GLORY TO JESUS it just came out. I wasnt thinking about anything.. I didn't expect anything. No one said anything. They only did what they word said.. I asked the Father for the sweet sweet Holy Spirit..

I .. I can't imagine life without. Anyone wondering.. its not what man says or what I say.. is it written? Then ask.. He is not a man that He should lie nor if you ask for the holy Spirit.. you wont end up with a fish! haha. So going to follow what me or any man says or what He says? Free choice.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

My question for the OP @Dave L is this:

People who teach the Baptism of the Spirit, are they teaching false doctrine and thus under anathema?

Those who claim to have the Baptism of the Spirit, are they baptised or under a different Spirit's direction?

 

[rockytopva]

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? - Hebrews 2:3-4

Just because you haven’t received someone elses gift does not mean it does not exist.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

Understanding the Baptism with the Holy Spirit in Acts is difficult. But I found the keys are the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:27 and the Samarians Acts 8:5. In essence, all had the Holy Spirit but only the Samarians had the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

These received the gift of the Holy Spirit according to Peter in Acts 2:28 just as we do today. But the Samarians also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands which the Eunuch did not.

On Pentecost God baptized the 12 Apostles with the Holy Spirit who also spoke in tongues. According to Acts 2:38 the eunuch and the Samarians had the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But Philip could not provide the baptism of the Holy Spirit for either. Acts reveals that beyond the two outpourings, only the Apostles through the laying on of their hands could baptize people in the Holy Spirit. It was the proof of apostleship Hebrews 2:4.

When the Apostles visited the Samarian converts, they laid their hands on them baptizing them in the Holy Spirit. But this was not the case with the Eunuch. It says he went on his way rejoicing after Philip baptized him in water.

So the Samarians and the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But only the Samarians received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through the Apostles’ hands.

About 7 years later, God poured out the Holy Spirit on the gentiles at Cornelius’ house which resulted in their speaking in tongues just as the Apostles did at Pentecost.

Scripture doesn’t mention the 3000 converts on the day of Pentecost as baptized with the Holy Spirit. Nor the 5,000 converts days later. But we might assume those whom the Apostles baptized in water also received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through their hands. But anyone baptized by someone other than an apostle would have been like the Eunuch who received only the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Later, Paul preached to the disciples at Ephesus Acts 19:1. These like the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit. But they also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands the same way the Samarians did.

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit provided God’s word through tongues and prophecy until the New Testament canon became complete. How do we know this? Paul says scripture thoroughly equips us 2 Timothy 3:17. Paul said tongues and prophecy provided only partial knowledge 1 Corinthians 13:9. So it makes sense scripture replaced them when completed.

Beyond Acts, the Corinthians no doubt received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit through Paul’s hands. And Paul mentioned he wanted to visit the Romans to give spiritual gifts to them too Romans 1:11. Paul mentions laying his hands on Timothy who also received a gift 2 Timothy 1:6.

So we can say scripture directly supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for those ministered to by an apostle. That it was not for all. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit passed into history with the rest of the apostles Hebrews 2:4 because only they provided it as a sign of their authority. And that scripture replaced the fragmentary gifts of tongues and prophecy with the completed revelation. And we can confidently say believers from Pentecost on have the gift of Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:38, but not the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Just as the Eunuch and believers since then.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is when the Holy Spirit enters a person and they become born again. Since you wouldn't say that becoming a christian isn't for today ...

... I'd imagine your post is related to dispy beliefs.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is given by Jesus, not the apostles.

However, this belief (if widespread) would explain why the church is in decline.

 

[rockytopva]

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? - Hebrews 2:3-4

Just because you haven’t received someone else's gift does not mean it does not exist.

I would further declare that everyone's gift is unique. If everyone were to speak in tongues the same way I would be suspicious. Here is a lady in our church speaking in tongues. There was clearly a prophetic word given here. If someone were obedient to the Lord and the Holy Spirit we would have found out what that word was. We would rather someone, though, remain silent, then to give out an interpretation to speaking in tongues that simply was not with it.

 

[Charlie24]

Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

Understanding the Baptism with the Holy Spirit in Acts is difficult. But I found the keys are the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:27 and the Samarians Acts 8:5. In essence, all had the Holy Spirit but only the Samarians had the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

These received the gift of the Holy Spirit according to Peter in Acts 2:28 just as we do today. But the Samarians also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands which the Eunuch did not.

On Pentecost God baptized the 12 Apostles with the Holy Spirit who also spoke in tongues. According to Acts 2:38 the eunuch and the Samarians had the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But Philip could not provide the baptism of the Holy Spirit for either. Acts reveals that beyond the two outpourings, only the Apostles through the laying on of their hands could baptize people in the Holy Spirit. It was the proof of apostleship Hebrews 2:4.

When the Apostles visited the Samarian converts, they laid their hands on them baptizing them in the Holy Spirit. But this was not the case with the Eunuch. It says he went on his way rejoicing after Philip baptized him in water.

So the Samarians and the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But only the Samarians received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through the Apostles’ hands.

About 7 years later, God poured out the Holy Spirit on the gentiles at Cornelius’ house which resulted in their speaking in tongues just as the Apostles did at Pentecost.

Scripture doesn’t mention the 3000 converts on the day of Pentecost as baptized with the Holy Spirit. Nor the 5,000 converts days later. But we might assume those whom the Apostles baptized in water also received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through their hands. But anyone baptized by someone other than an apostle would have been like the Eunuch who received only the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Later, Paul preached to the disciples at Ephesus Acts 19:1. These like the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit. But they also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands the same way the Samarians did.

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit provided God’s word through tongues and prophecy until the New Testament canon became complete. How do we know this? Paul says scripture thoroughly equips us 2 Timothy 3:17. Paul said tongues and prophecy provided only partial knowledge 1 Corinthians 13:9. So it makes sense scripture replaced them when completed.

Beyond Acts, the Corinthians no doubt received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit through Paul’s hands. And Paul mentioned he wanted to visit the Romans to give spiritual gifts to them too Romans 1:11. Paul mentions laying his hands on Timothy who also received a gift 2 Timothy 1:6.

So we can say scripture directly supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for those ministered to by an apostle. That it was not for all. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit passed into history with the rest of the apostles Hebrews 2:4 because only they provided it as a sign of their authority. And that scripture replaced the fragmentary gifts of tongues and prophecy with the completed revelation. And we can confidently say believers from Pentecost on have the gift of Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:38, but not the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Just as the Eunuch and believers since then.

You make some good points. There is the other side though.

The baptists believe Paul is referring to the completion of scripture when he says "when that which is perfect is come." On the other hand, the Pentecostal folks believe he is referring to the resurrection. Both fit the bill, but I believe one has a better fit.

Paul said "for now WE see through a glass darkly" but then he makes it personal by saying "I know in part but then shall I know." If Paul is referring to the fulfillment of scripture, it doesn't fit. Paul didn't need the fulfillment of scripture to know, he wrote almost 1/3 of the NT, the 12 apostles learned the New covenant from Paul.

But if Paul was referring to the rapture/resurrection it would be a fit. Paul would now be seeing things through a glass darkly, but after the resurrection he would see clearly. Which would mean the nine gifts of the Holy Spirit are still in effect through the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

If we knew exactly what Paul meant by "when that which is perfect is come" the argument would be settled. But I'm afraid we will have to wait for our Lord to settle it for us.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

Understanding the Baptism with the Holy Spirit in Acts is difficult. But I found the keys are the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:27 and the Samarians Acts 8:5. In essence, all had the Holy Spirit but only the Samarians had the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

These received the gift of the Holy Spirit according to Peter in Acts 2:28 just as we do today. But the Samarians also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands which the Eunuch did not.

On Pentecost God baptized the 12 Apostles with the Holy Spirit who also spoke in tongues. According to Acts 2:38 the eunuch and the Samarians had the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But Philip could not provide the baptism of the Holy Spirit for either. Acts reveals that beyond the two outpourings, only the Apostles through the laying on of their hands could baptize people in the Holy Spirit. It was the proof of apostleship Hebrews 2:4.

When the Apostles visited the Samarian converts, they laid their hands on them baptizing them in the Holy Spirit. But this was not the case with the Eunuch. It says he went on his way rejoicing after Philip baptized him in water.

So the Samarians and the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But only the Samarians received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through the Apostles’ hands.

About 7 years later, God poured out the Holy Spirit on the gentiles at Cornelius’ house which resulted in their speaking in tongues just as the Apostles did at Pentecost.

Scripture doesn’t mention the 3000 converts on the day of Pentecost as baptized with the Holy Spirit. Nor the 5,000 converts days later. But we might assume those whom the Apostles baptized in water also received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through their hands. But anyone baptized by someone other than an apostle would have been like the Eunuch who received only the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Later, Paul preached to the disciples at Ephesus Acts 19:1. These like the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit. But they also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands the same way the Samarians did.

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit provided God’s word through tongues and prophecy until the New Testament canon became complete. How do we know this? Paul says scripture thoroughly equips us 2 Timothy 3:17. Paul said tongues and prophecy provided only partial knowledge 1 Corinthians 13:9. So it makes sense scripture replaced them when completed.

Beyond Acts, the Corinthians no doubt received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit through Paul’s hands. And Paul mentioned he wanted to visit the Romans to give spiritual gifts to them too Romans 1:11. Paul mentions laying his hands on Timothy who also received a gift 2 Timothy 1:6.

So we can say scripture directly supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for those ministered to by an apostle. That it was not for all. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit passed into history with the rest of the apostles Hebrews 2:4 because only they provided it as a sign of their authority. And that scripture replaced the fragmentary gifts of tongues and prophecy with the completed revelation. And we can confidently say believers from Pentecost on have the gift of Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:38, but not the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Just as the Eunuch and believers since then.

But John the Baptist said:
"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

 

[rockytopva]

Understanding the Baptism with the Holy Spirit in Acts is difficult. But I found the keys are the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:27 and the Samarians Acts 8:5. In essence, all had the Holy Spirit but only the Samarians had the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

“Understanding” This is the first error here. A gift is to be received. If we are trying to teach people the Holy Spirit we are only creating confusion.

For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; - Romans 1:11

To impart, or to share, the same Holy Spirit Paul experienced from God. Which is different then to teach in a schoolroom setting.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You make some good points. There is the other side though.

The baptists believe Paul is referring to the completion of scripture when he says "when that which is perfect is come." On the other hand, the Pentecostal folks believe he is referring to the resurrection. Both fit the bill, but I believe one has a better fit.

Paul said "for now WE see through a glass darkly" but then he makes it personal by saying "I know in part but then shall I know." If Paul is referring to the fulfillment of scripture, it doesn't fit. Paul didn't need the fulfillment of scripture to know, he wrote almost 1/3 of the NT, the 12 apostles learned the New covenant from Paul.

But if Paul was referring to the rapture/resurrection it would be a fit. Paul would now be seeing things through a glass darkly, but after the resurrection he would see clearly. Which would mean the nine gifts of the Holy Spirit are still in effect through the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

If we knew exactly what Paul meant by "when that which is perfect is come" the argument would be settled. But I'm afraid we will have to wait for our Lord to settle it for us.

Found it! I take it back - you ARE a seeker of Truth, even in the face of your denomination. I applaud you. I was right about you to begin with.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

People think they have the baptism but it's false teaching.

If you are speaking of tongues as evidence, then I agree. We are baptized in the Holy Spirit in order to be in the Body of Christ. This is the rebirth, the restoration of our relationship with the Father. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are a whole different thing. These are gifts to help grow the Body. Unfortunately, some groups wrap these gifts into Soteriology thus causing confusion. Even Christ made it a point that not all those who come in His name with supernatural manifestations are in the Body. It would be possible that He never knew them.
Blessings

 

[mark kennedy]

Dear Mark: like so much of our God (if not all) the present progressive tense is encapsulated. In the case of the "upon" relationship, it is litterly "be being". In fact, the anointing of His Spirit is NOT a one time experience, but an ongoing experience in the present tense!

The baptism of the Holy Spirit has always been considered the initial equipping abd empowering of the Spirit. After that the believer can be filled many times, Paul emphasises being filled with the Holy Spirit but only refers to the baptism of the Holy Spirit in connection with the gifts of the Holy Spirit in 1 Cor. 12. Of course your right interaction with the Holy Spirit cannot be limited to a singly isolated event, Jesus said the Comforter comes to be with us forever.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

God still heals. You are confusing the signs and wonders of the Apostles, now gone, with the prayer of faith that heals.

Healing is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Paul said this:

1 Corinthians 12
12 Brothers and sisters, I want you to know about the gifts of the Holy Spirit. 2 You know that at one time you were unbelievers. You were somehow drawn away to worship statues of gods that couldn’t even speak. 3 So I want you to know that no one who is speaking with the help of God’s Spirit says, “May Jesus be cursed.” And without the help of the Holy Spirit no one can say, “Jesus is Lord.”
4 There are different kinds of gifts. But they are all given to believers by the same Spirit. 5 There are different ways to serve. But they all come from the same Lord. 6 There are different ways the Spirit works. But the same God is working in all these ways and in all people.
7 The Holy Spirit is given to each of us in a special way. That is for the good of all. 8 To some people the Spirit gives a message of wisdom. To others the same Spirit gives a message of knowledge. 9 To others the same Spirit gives faith. To others that one Spirit gives gifts of healing. 10 To others he gives the power to do miracles. To others he gives the ability to prophesy. To others he gives the ability to tell the spirits apart. To others he gives the ability to speak in different kinds of languages they had not known before. And to still others he gives the ability to explain what was said in those languages. 11 All the gifts are produced by one and the same Spirit. He gives gifts to each person, just as he decides.

Now the list consists of several gifts. We can not puck out the one's we are not comfortable with as all of these are gifted by the Holy Spirit. If wisdom exists today then miracles do too. If knowledge exists today then tongues do as well. All from the same Spirit for the use in the Body of Christ.