Am I a bad person because I don't believe in eternal hell?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Okay. No argument here. But that is not what I was asking. I was asking if since God IS love, if burning someone forever is consistent with being love.

The question is a non-sequitur with a false premise - you added a condition not in evidence in Scripture, ..... but that's for somewhere else....
note that
God's judgment is absolutely perfect, and the punishment of everyone outside of Christ, death, is perfectly in line with total perfection completely.

 

[anna ~ grace]

To hear some folks talk, one would think that I am committing a terrible sin by not believing that hell lasts forever.

It's absolutely wonderful to see you back here, Light. You have been missed. God be with you, friend.

I think we can know that God definitely desires the salvation of all. We should ask that all souls be saved. But to deny the permanence of Hell is off.

What helps me is many Saints having observed that we basically send ourselves there. We have hated and rejected God. We resisted His Mercy and Goodness and Love up to the last second. He ultimately gives us the choice.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

To hear some folks talk, one would think that I am committing a terrible sin by not believing that hell lasts forever.

Don't sweat it, you got it right.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The unrepentant sinner will be dead forever, not in torment forever. That's eternal life, which is only given to believers.

.... clarify.... 'dead forever' , is not 'eternal life', right ? Eternal life is only given to believers who are born again by the Will of the Father in heaven.....

 

[JackRT]

Yahuweh is not subject to the clay pot He shapes, especially if it is one opposed to Him.

You Neither Know the Scriptures nor the Power of God! - Lay ...
[Search domain laypreacher.wordpress.com/2017/05/26/you-neither-know-the-scriptures-nor-the-power-of-god/] You Neither Know the Scriptures nor the Power of God!
You Neither Know the Scriptures nor the Power of God! The Pharisees and the Sadducees were the intellectuals of their time. They were the professional theologians that thought of themselves as the custodians of the true doctrine of the word of God.

But they just didn't agree on the what was the true doctrine of the word of God.

 

[Light of the East]

ooops...... the content of your previous posts rejected His Word, and Christ.
Did you change of heart in the last few moments ? !

What I reject, dear Jeff, is the faux translations and faux ideas of men regarding our loving heavenly Father and His will to save all men (1 Tim. 2:4). What I reject is people using the Bible as a cudgel to beat people into line with their false ideas, such as the Indulgences used by Roman Catholic crooks right before Luther exposed them. In looking over the history of Christianity, one has to see that many leaders have utterly weaponized God to achieve some earthly end. The actions of these people are completely out of line with the character of the first century Church.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

.... clarify.... 'dead forever' , is not 'eternal life', right ? Eternal life is only given to believers who are born again by the Will of the Father in heaven.....

Dead, gone, caput. Even the memory of them is gone (so loved ones won't grieve).

 

[Light of the East]

The question is a non-sequitur with a false premise - you added a condition not in evidence in Scripture, ..... but that's for somewhere else....
note that
God's judgment is absolutely perfect, and the punishment of everyone outside of Christ, death, is perfectly in line with total perfection completely.

You didn't answer the question. God IS love. Love is not an emotion. Love is self-sacrificially doing that which is BEST for the object of your love.

Now show me, please, how torturing someone forever is in line with that definition. How is eternal torture, rather than corrective discipline which results in healing, in line with the definition of love.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What I reject, dear Jeff, is the faux translations and faux ideas of men regarding our loving heavenly Father and His will to save all men (1 Tim. 2:4). What I reject is people using the Bible as a cudgel to beat people into line with their false ideas, such as the Indulgences used by Roman Catholic crooks right before Luther exposed them. In looking over the history of Christianity, one has to see that many leaders have utterly weaponized God to achieve some earthly end. The actions of these people are completely out of line with the character of the first century Church.

Good to reject all that is false, yes.
Why then still have the label 'Catholic' !? (if you understand what is stated in this post of yours)
Not just "to achieve some earthly end", but with great sorrow and extreme grief an eternal destruction of souls.... (people's motives and direction, when subject to false gospels/ false teachers)

 

[Light of the East]

It's absolutely wonderful to see you back here, Light. You have been missed. God be with you, friend.

I think we can know that God definitely desires the salvation of all. We should ask that all souls be saved. But to deny the permanence of Hell is off.

What helps me is many Saints having observed that we basically send ourselves there. We have hated and rejected God. We resisted His Mercy and Goodness and Love up to the last second. He ultimately gives us the choice.

Hello Gracia -

Would you do me a favor and read this blog piece and then give me your feedback.

God’s Hand & Our Free Will

BTW - I do believe Metropolitan Ware is in the camp of Hopeful Universalism. I read a piece by him a while back where he clearly supports the concept.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Dead, gone, caput. Even the memory of them is gone (so loved ones won't grieve).

< smile > even better is what is written >>>> there will be NO MEMORY of the pains and sorrows, no tears in the eyes, ......
so even if there was a fire going on, it would not be causing grieving ....

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Hello Gracia -

Would you do me a favor and read this blog piece and then give me your feedback.


BTW - I do believe Metropolitan Ware is in the camp of Hopeful Universalism. I read a piece by him a while back where he clearly supports the concept.

Agin supporting that false site, with the false gospel and false teachings ??

tch tch...... for one post you did well, then back again to this !?

 

[Light of the East]

Good to reject all that is false, yes.
Why then still have the label 'Catholic' !? (if you understand what is stated in this post of yours)
Not just "to achieve some earthly end", but with great sorrow and extreme grief an eternal destruction of souls.... (people's motives and direction, when subject to false gospels/ false teachers)

Because I haven't been able to convert to Orthodoxy yet. Puts me in a very odd place, where I am in union with Rome as a UCC member, but don't agree with a darn thing that the RC Church teaches because my theology is Orthodox.

But....all in God's time.

 

[eleos1954]

To hear some folks talk, one would think that I am committing a terrible sin by not believing that hell lasts forever.

Many, many many (myself included) do not believe in eternal punishment/torment in hell ... and it is biblically correct to do so ... what kind of a God torments people for eternity? He don't ... and therefore of course is not a sin.

You've got it correct.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Because I haven't been able to convert to Orthodoxy yet. Puts me in a very odd place, where I am in union with Rome as a UCC member, but don't agree with a darn thing that the RC Church teaches because my theology is Orthodox.

But....all in God's time.

What did Jesus say is required ? (very plainly, in His Own Words, in the Bible)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Many, many many (myself included) do not believe in eternal punishment/torment in hell ... and it is biblically correct to do so ... what kind of a God torments people for eternity? He don't ... and therefore or course is not a sin.

a false premise, perhaps "for eternity" (in English). In Hebrew and Greek is better.

He is Perfectly Righteous and Just. Note that the fig tree that Jesus cursed is gone today, and apparently will never be seen again, ever.

So it is "judged" eternally. Like "eternal judgment" because forever throughout eternity it will never ever, no not ever , be seen again.

 

[eleos1954]

a false premise, perhaps "for eternity" (in English). In Hebrew and Greek is better.

He is Perfectly Righteous and Just. Note that the fig tree that Jesus cursed is gone today, and apparently will never be seen again, ever.

So it is "judged" eternally. Like "eternal judgment" because forever throughout eternity it will never ever, no not ever , be seen again.

The lost, in the very end get destroyed, consumed by eternal fire (fire from heaven), never to exist again.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Hello Gracia -

Would you do me a favor and read this blog piece and then give me your feedback.

God’s Hand & Our Free Will

BTW - I do believe Metropolitan Ware is in the camp of Hopeful Universalism. I read a piece by him a while back where he clearly supports the concept.

Hey, Light. About the article, I would simply say, that though God wills us to seek Him and love Him, He does not force us to love Him. We also can't neccesarily see into a person's soul to see how God is working on them. We also don't see as God sees.

It seems weird that anyone would choose Hell. But, then, we all choose to sin. Often will the full realization that we could yet pull back and do otherwise, yet we take the last step and sin anyway. Are we not, in a sense, choosing Hell at that moment?

There is a Catholic teaching, I think, that explains that God gives sufficient grace to all according to their knowledge and place in life, to be saved. But sufficient grace is not the same as efficient grace.

I would say that the most loving thing to do is to keep praying for souls. Keep at it. Our prayers are not worthless, and God does use them and respond to them.

 

[timothyu]

Eternal death lasts forever for those who don't qualify for the Kingdom. The original punishment stands.

 

[anna ~ grace]

...