The Loaded Question (Philippians 2:13)

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Does this mean I can continue to walk in darkness/sin, disobedience and lust, and still count myself "saved"?

No. If you can happily do that, then it shows that you never belonged to Christ in the first place. A genuinely converted believer loves the commands of Christ and desires with all his heart to follow them and live a godly life. He does it out of gratitude because of his wonderful Saviour dying on the cross for him and God giving him the gift of a free pardon in response to his faith in Christ.

 

[def]

One wicked man is sick and denies it.

One wicked man is sick and calls the DOCTOR.

Two sick wicked men called for a doctor, who prescribes medicine to them.

One wicked man did not believe in taking medicine and suffered the consequences of his illness.

The other wicked man took his medicine and was cured.

 

[Sabertooth]

This was probably already offered,

"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." James 2:14-26 NKJV

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Screen Door

 

[bcbsr]

God does not contradict Himself, ever. So how does one reconcile Romans 4:4 with Exodus 23:7?

The fact that God has both an Old Covenant and a New Covenant isn't a contradiction, so it doesn't need reconciling. It's like asking how do you reconcile Romans 10:5 "Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them."" with the righteousness which is by faith which the rest of Romans 10 talks about. OR reconciling Romans 3:20 "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law" with Romans 3:21,22 "But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe."

 

[bcbsr]

Luke identified those in Acts 15:5 as having "believed". This was not a claim they made for themselves but inspired Luke says they were believers, Luke did not say they faked their belief or only pretended to believe but they "believed".

You're ignoring what Paul said about them, "This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves." Gal 2:4 Luke was writing as an historian, not an apostle. He was recording their outward identity. Paul wrote what they really were."Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment." Joh 7:24

 

[bcbsr]

Does this mean I can continue to walk in darkness/sin, disobedience and lust, and still count myself "saved"?

Those who actually believe in Christ have been born of God and have lost the ability to live in sin, as it is written, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9 Believe it or not. "We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us." 1John 4:6

 

[Grip Docility]

This was probably already offered,

"What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." James 2:14-26 NKJV

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Screen Door

As long as the works are attributed to God and not issued as human salvational requirement type works... (Fruit Inspection)... I’m in full agreement.

 

[Phil W]

The Arminian belief comes from Arminius who, in the 17th Century taught that a person received Christ through personal choice and that the Holy Spirit responds to that choice and causes the person to be converted.

If one has "received Christ", (whatever that means), isn't he already "converted?
To receive/choose Christ means one has submitted to Him, otherwise one has dismissed Him.
I don't see evidence, scripturally, of the Holy Ghost picking and choosing folks for conversion.
It sure makes a good excuse for sin though..."God made me do it/sin, because He didn't pick me"

Calvinism says that a sinner is helpless and hopeless unless the Holy Spirit initiates enlightenment and the power to make the choice through saving faith.

Seems the same as above..."The Holy Ghost never initiated enlightenment for me, so it's God's fault that I commit sin."

Arminius taught that the Atonement was available to every sinner and that election was conferred on the basis of the sinner choosing for Christ. Calvin taught that some were elected, and others were predestined to hell.

If I ever see that one of the above taught that a man can be free from sin, he will be worth following.
Not until then, though.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Phil W]

I believe that conversion is an act of God's grace through faith, and the sanctification process starts at that point and is progressive as we grow in grace and our minds are conformed to the mind of Christ. It is a life-long process. But this is not licence to behave any way we like, because we receive Jesus as our Saviour and our Lord as the same time. There is no such thing as having Jesus as Saviour but not Lord. If He is not Lord of all, he is not Lord at all, and if Jesus is not Lord then the person is not yet converted. Therefore, the converted believer follows the Law because he loves it - because he loves Christ and wants with all his heart to be obedient to Him, even though he falls short so many time, and mourns over his shortcomings and failures. Mourning over imperfection is a sure sign of genuine conversion to Christ.

How can one claim "conversion" but still offend God with sin?
That isn't conversion, it is delaying conversion.
Sanctification happens when the blood of Christ is applied to you to wash away your past sins.
Done once, at our "immersion" into Christ and into His death. (Rom 6:3-7)
Enabling us to grow in grace and knowledge from a cleansed starting point.

Boasting that one has not sinned for 30 years is self-righteousness and pride and indicates that he needs yet to ditch his religion and be converted to Christ.

What is the end result of being converted to Christ?
Life without sin, perhaps?

BTW, doesn't James say..."Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27)
Any religion that is still "spotted from the world", (in sin), isn't pure.

 

[Phil W]

Those who actually believe in Christ have been born of God and have lost the ability to live in sin, as it is written, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9 Believe it or not. "We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us." 1John 4:6

Isn't it amazing how many folks say they believe in Christ but don't believe the scripture you graciously supplied?

 

[Phil W]

Nothing for the Love of my life is work.

The folks who try to nullify repentance from sin and water baptism and even obedience to God, calling them "works", may be at odds with you.

 

[Grip Docility]

Isn't it amazing how many folks say they believe in Christ but don't believe the scripture you graciously supplied?

The sin of the world is Unbelief. A person is either IN CHRIST or IN SIN.

This kind of Carnal interpretation of scripture is there for a choice we all have to make.

If a single person claims to be without sin, they are making God a liar.

Only One ever was, is and always will be without sin.

 

[Grip Docility]

The folks who try to nullify repentance from sin and water baptism and even obedience to God, calling them "works", may be at odds with you.

Brother, You are judging the work of the Holy Spirit among the Body. I really hope you haven’t broke a single Mitzvah.

James 2:10 ; Romans 2:1

 

[Phil W]

The sin of the world is Unbelief.

Hmmm.
Perhaps in a thread of it's own I would comment...but...

A person is either IN CHRIST or IN SIN.

That is right.

This kind of Carnal interpretation of scripture is there for a choice we all have to make.

What kind of carnal interpretation are you referring to?

If a single person claims to be without sin, they are making God a liar.

Were that true, as you stated above, then nobody is in Christ.
Thankfully, it isn't true.

Only One ever was, is and always will be without sin.

He was the first, but not the last.

 

[Phil W]

Brother, You are judging the work of the Holy Spirit among the Body. I really hope you haven’t broke a single Mitzvah.

James 2:10 ; Romans 2:1

I hope the Body hasn't foregone the commandments of the Lord and of His apostles who commanded repentance from sin and baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38)

 

[Grip Docility]

Hmmm.
Perhaps in a thread of it's own I would comment...but...


That is right.


What kind of carnal interpretation are you referring to?


Were that true, as you stated above, then nobody is in Christ.
Thankfully, it isn't true.


He was the first, but not the last.

When speaking in Christ... we are indeed as Christ, but when speaking in the flesh we are forgiven sinners.

1 John 1:8-10

 

[Grip Docility]

I hope the Body hasn't foregone the commandments of the Lord and of His apostles who commanded repentance from sin and baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins. (Acts 2:38)

Interpretation is necessary. People mean this differently.

 

[Phil W]

When speaking in Christ... we are indeed as Christ, but when speaking in the flesh we are forgiven sinners.

1 John 1:8-10

If we walk in the light/God, we won't "speak in the flesh". (1 John 1:7)
And we will be speaking as ex-sinners.

 

[Phil W]

Interpretation is necessary. People mean this differently.

What do you mean by "this"?
Acts 2:38?

 

[Grip Docility]

What do you mean by "this"?
Acts 2:38?

This was meant...

1 Peter 3:21
Psalms 89:14

But, this is Pentecost... and a very specific type of conversion is occurring. John the Baptist preached a somewhat similar message to prepare the way for Jesus. The Baptism being received at Pentecost is unique... because it is not water Baptism... as it is the provision of this to the Jews at Jerusalem... in fulfillment of this... (Matthew 3:11)(Acts Of the Apostles 1:8)

Something changes..... what has changed?
Acts of the Apostles 16:30-32