Intelligence Inquiry

[HitchSlap]

In the current age of the information superhighway - the Internet has been the leveler of many things!

Including religion.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Including religion.

Of which atheism is also a religion; although you would never admit that now would you?

So, now your objection to ID isn't really with the scientific application of it now - is it? Your "beef" is with religion and specifically Christianity now isn't it?

 

[HitchSlap]

Of which atheism is also a religion; although you would never admit that now would you?

So, now your objection to ID isn't really with the scientific application of it now - is it? Your "beef" is with religion and specifically Christianity now isn't it?

And not collecting stamps is a hobby. I get it.

There is no scientific application of ID/creo. It’s a goddidit assertion, nothing more. We have 160 years of solid biological evidence for ToE, and ID not even once.

No wonder you project your notion of religion onto those who lack belief; you’re envious. When you get tired of having to square that circle, we’ll be here.

 

[VirOptimus]

Of which atheism is also a religion; although you would never admit that now would you?

So, now your objection to ID isn't really with the scientific application of it now - is it? Your "beef" is with religion and specifically Christianity now isn't it?

ID has zero science application.

The ToE also has nothing to do with religion or atheism as its just a description of physical reality.

 

[The Righterzpen]

And not collecting stamps is a hobby. I get it.

There is no scientific application of ID/creo. It’s a goddidit assertion, nothing more. We have 160 years of solid biological evidence for ToE, and ID not even once.

No wonder you project your notion of religion onto those who lack belief; you’re envious. When you get tired of having to square that circle, we’ll be here.

@VirOptimus too;

Ahhh... so you're here on a Christian forum to try and proselytize people into your atheistic religious belief system. Got it!

Well, if you think I'm "envious"; I came from where you are at one point. I was an atheist / staunch adherent to evolution... etc when I was a teenager. Not any more though. I too got mad at all the "arrogant Christians".

Yet there was one thing I could not deny that all those who genuinely trusted God had that I didn't. The belief system of atheism never offered me any hope. That all started to change when I was about 16 years old and I had a spiritual awakening. That was 30 plus years ago and I've been through a lot of "earthy hell" in-between.

By the way; how old are you? Maybe you will be so lucky as to have a spiritual awakening. Yet all that is left unto the sovereign prerogative of the God that you allegedly don't believe in. So if you come to believe one day - praise God; if not and you are a "vessel fitted unto destruction" - that is in His sovereign prerogative too.

So on that note, we part ways on this conversation because you will never convince me that atheism is superior to the Lord I serve.

 

[VirOptimus]

@VirOptimus too;

Ahhh... so you're here on a Christian forum to try and proselytize people into your atheistic religious belief system. Got it!

Well, if you think I'm "envious"; I came from where you are at one point. I was an atheist / staunch adherent to evolution... etc when I was a teenager. Not any more though. I too got mad at all the "arrogant Christians".

Yet there was one thing I could not deny that all those who genuinely trusted God had that I didn't. The belief system of atheism never offered me any hope. That all started to change when I was about 16 years old and I had a spiritual awakening. That was 30 plus years ago and I've been through a lot of "earthy hell" in-between.

By the way; how old are you? Maybe you will be so lucky as to have a spiritual awakening. Yet all that is left unto the sovereign prerogative of the God that you allegedly don't believe in. So if you come to believe one day - praise God; if not and you are a "vessel fitted unto destruction" - that is in His sovereign prerogative too.

So on that note, we part ways on this conversation because you will never convince me that atheism is superior to the Lord I serve.

I couldnt care less about you beliefs, this is about science not religion. Its you who preach, I havent tried to make anyone change their religion.

 

[Yttrium]

I couldnt care less about you beliefs, this is about science not religion. Its you who preach, I havent tried to make anyone change their religion.

To be fair, HitchSlap does seem to be proselytizing atheism, and Righterzpen was responding to him.

 

[HitchSlap]

... so you're here on a Christian forum to try and proselytize people into your atheistic religious belief system. Got it!

Yes, I value reason and evidence.

Well, if you think I'm "envious";

It's obvious. IMO, those theists who straw man my position, then tell me why it's wrong, do so because these are the issues they're personally struggling with. It's ok, I understand and I'm not here to judge.

I came from where you are at one point.

Again, you're projecting here, as you've never asked where I'm coming from, or how I got here. This is you sussing out your own beliefs, by projecting them onto me.

I was an atheist / staunch adherent to evolution... etc when I was a teenager.

I believe you.

Not any more though.

What convinced you that a god exists?

I too got mad at all the "arrogant Christians".

I don't get mad at theists or arrogance. This is you projecting again.

Yet there was one thing I could not deny that all those who genuinely trusted God had that I didn't.
The belief system of atheism never offered me any hope.

Atheism is not a belief system, it's a response to the claim that god/s exist. Having said this, humans find value, meaning, purpose and hope in all kinds of things.
Seriously, if you require faith in a deity to sustain an otherwise hopeless existence, then please, stay connected in your faith.

That all started to change when I was about 16 years old and I had a spiritual awakening.

How did you know it was a "spiritual awakening"?

That was 30 plus years ago and I've been through a lot of "earthy hell" in-between.

Life is challenging, daunting and hellish at times. No argument there.

By the way; how old are you?

Old enough to have been a born again Christian for over thirty years.

Maybe you will be so lucky as to have a spiritual awakening.

I did! It's why I'm atheist.

Yet all that is left unto the sovereign prerogative of the God that you allegedly don't believe in. So if you come to believe one day - praise God; if not and you are a "vessel fitted unto destruction" - that is in His sovereign prerogative too.

Cool. If he wants me to believe, he knows how to get a hold of me.

So on that note, we part ways on this conversation because you will never convince me that atheism is superior to the Lord I serve.

More projection, as I'm not trying to "convince" anyone of atheism. It's not a choice; either one is convinced, or they're not. As I said earlier, if you need faith to sustain hope, then don't stop believin'. As for my beliefs, I'm easy to convince, all you need is show me evidence.

 

[inquiring mind]

Well, the thread seems to be running down, and believe it or not, I think I’ve learned a few things from this discussion:

#1. Most people aren’t going to openly comment one way or the other, regardless if it affects them in a positive or negative way, and no matter what they really believe, so yes, the status quo will likely remain. Game, TOE.

#2. As I said earlier, and I do agree with ID opponents (whatever their motive) here on this, the hard work in regard to throwing ID into the secular education system has not been done; I don’t think it’s even started. In fact, it may be impossible to summarize it and contain it so that it can be presented in a scientific way without religious overtones. Game, TOE.

#3. I admit, it’s impossible for me to think of ID without automatically kicking-in my particular faith and beliefs in that regard, and so I suspect it would be the same for everyone else as well. I just can’t see too much of a common ID case being built for the classroom from that situation alone. Game, TOE.

#4. Last, but certainly not least, somehow I get the feeling after discussing this that it’s not the way... and I suspect the Almighty isn’t interested at all in competing with science, TOE, or any of our other endeavors here, in school or anywhere else. Despite thinking at first that much of our youth is being indoctrinated one-way in school, reflection now tells me that He can and does handle that as well, in His way. Governments, academia, and non-believers can influence people, yes, but they can’t prevent His presence, communication, and message of salvation with individuals even under the worst of circumstances. Game, G-O-D.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Note to self: Aint it interesting that atheists who's "only agenda" is in "only into knowing the facts of science" come into Christian forum to argue against ID? If "religion" really aint the issue; why do they not seek out secular forums to discuss these issues with people who agree with them?

To all the ID proponents - what a world of grand design!

Amen!

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Note to self: Aint it interesting that atheists who's "only agenda" is in "only into knowing the facts of science" come into Christian forum to argue against ID? If "religion" really aint the issue; why do they not seek out secular forums to discuss these issues with people who agree with them?

To all the ID proponents - what a world of grand design!

Amen!

You do know that this particular forum of the website, along with a good section of this website, is marked as being secular?
If you want to converse with Christians only, there are Christian only forums available to go to on this website.

 

[pitabread]

I suspect the Almighty isn’t interested at all in competing with science, TOE, or any of our other endeavors here, in school or anywhere else. Despite thinking at first that much of our youth is being indoctrinated one-way in school, reflection now tells me that He can and does handle that as well, in His way

I think the fact you appear to still have a science versus God view of this discussion speaks volumes about this being a theological issue more than anything else.

For many believers have no trouble harmonizing those two aspects of knowledge.

 

[pitabread]

Aint it interesting that atheists who's "only agenda" is in "only into knowing the facts of science" come into Christian forum to argue against ID?

You don't actually know everyone's motivations for being here. This is an over-generalization on your part.

 

[The Righterzpen]

You do know that this particular forum of the website, along with a good section of this website, is marked as being secular?
If you want to converse with Christians only, there are Christian only forums available to go to on this website.

Yeah, I do get that; yet don't you think it's ..... maybe ironic? that they seek out christianforums.com to begin with?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Yeah, I do get that; yet don't you think it's ..... maybe ironic? that they seek out christianforums.com to begin with?

Not really. Typing in 'evolution forums' on Google brings up this very forum as hit number 3 for me (number 2 is... Mitsubishi EVO, of all things, and number 1 is the forum for said Mitsubishi site).

 

[AV1611VET]

Yeah, I do get that; yet don't you think it's ..... maybe ironic? that they seek out christianforums.com to begin with?

We say everything God has, Satan has a cheap imitation, since he said he would be like the Most High.

God issued the Great Commission for Christians to go out into the highways and byways to witness.

Satan has his "great commission" also: for his students to do the same for him.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Not really. Typing in 'evolution forums' on Google brings up this very forum as hit number 3 for me (number 2 is... Mitsubishi EVO, of all things, and number 1 is the forum for said Mitsubishi site).

Well isn't that interesting? (I got "hit number 6" for this.) Still though, if I was to look up something for discussion "only for the sake of science"; I would not go to a religiously based forum.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

We say everything God has, Satan has a cheap imitation, since he said he would be like the Most High.

God issued the Great Commission for Christians to go out into the highways and byways to witness.

Satan has his "great commission" also: for his students to do the same for him.

Classy. Real classy.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Well isn't that interesting? (I got "hit number 6" for this.) Still though, if I was to look up something for discussion "only for the sake of science"; I would not go to a religiously based forum.

Why not? Are religious people incapable of discussing science? Do you think so lowly of religious people that you think they don't know science?

 

[pitabread]

We say everything God has, Satan has a cheap imitation, since he said he would be like the Most High.

God issued the Great Commission for Christians to go out into the highways and byways to witness.

Satan has his "great commission" also: for his students to do the same for him.

Really? Science is satantic now?

Yeesh. That's just a sad worldview.