Who are you worshiping???

[Carl Emerson]

There is a myth causing considerable confusion in the Body of Christ originating from the greatest threat to the Christian Church today. Sadly this myth is believed, and passed on, by many who should know better, but have failed to think the issue through or have simply failed to properly weigh the claim.

First, however, let us anchor our thoughts together by considering the biblical account of the events that unfolded concerning Moses and the Children of Israel recorded in Exodus 31.

Moses had been called to commune with the Lord on Mt. Sinai. He had experienced The Lords’ terrible yet compelling presence. He had received from the very hand of God two tablets of stone that had writing engraved on both sides by the very finger of God.
Meanwhile the Children of Israel, in Moses absence, guided in deception by Aaron, were instructed to bow down to a golden calf, which he had crafted.
Now God could see what was happening, He told Moses that the people had corrupted themselves and were bowing down and worshiping an image and not God. The Lord was very angry and decided to destroy them all and start again to build a righteous nation beginning with Moses.
Moses pleaded with God and reminded Him of the covenant He had made with the patriarchs Abraham Isaac and Jacob concerning a people and a land of promise. So the Lord changed His mind, and sent Moses down the mountain to correct this abominable behaviour. Clearly these descendants of Abraham were no longer worshiping God

Today millions of the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are behaving in a similar way.
They bow down five times each day to a black cube in Mecca called the Ka'bah. From God’s perspective they are similarly corrupted.
It is what people do that reveals what they worship, not what they say.
Muslim commentators try to explain the phenomena as simply reverence for Allah’s house. Ironically some traditions suggest that Mohammad consecrated this stone as a memorial to end all idolatry. How clear it is that this is not the worship of the God of Israel who commands that we direct our worship to Him alone.

That leads us to the myth that some believe, and even teach – that the God of Israel and the god of modern Islam, Allah, are one.

The primary scripture that guides Allah worship is the Koran. The Koran records that Allah is the author of evil. (Surah 91:7&8) The Koran records that Allah commanded Satan to worship Adam.(Surah 2.32) Islamic worship is characterized by repetition and the image attributed to their god is one who is distant and impersonal, uninvolved in the detail of life and leaving human affairs to fate.

Christians are guided in behaviour by the Bible. The Bible teaches that God is Holy and Righteous and that Satan authored evil through prideful disobedience. The Bible consistently condemns any worship not directed to Him. The Bible teaches against vain repetition and encourages prayer to a Personal Loving God who understands and personally changes life circumstances as supremely demonstrated by Jesus.

In no way do I judge these children of Abraham who have become loyal to death to a scripture and tradition that has departed from the direct worship of the God of Israel. Like Moses I plead for their turning back to the Worship of the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. May they no longer be corrupted, and may the church no longer be silent, but bring a message of liberation to these cousins of faith.

 

[gadar perets]

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[JosephZ]

That leads us to the myth that some believe, and even teach – that the God of Israel and the god of modern Islam, Allah, are one.

Regardless of what non-Muslims believe about Allah, all Muslims believe that Allah is the God of Israel. Since this is the case, this can be used as a great door opener for Christians to witness to Muslims.

They bow down five times each day to a black cube in Mecca called the Ka'bah. From God’s perspective they are similarly corrupted.
It is what people do that reveals what they worship, not what they say.
Muslim commentators try to explain the phenomena as simply reverence for Allah’s house. Ironically some traditions suggest that Mohammad consecrated this stone as a memorial to end all idolatry. How clear it is that this is not the worship of the God of Israel who commands that we direct our worship to Him alone.

The Ka'bah is only used as a point of reference, neither it, nor the stone inside are being worshiped by Muslims.

The Qur'an makes it clear when talking about the Ka'bah that only Allah is to be worshiped by Muslims:

We showed Abraham the location of the House [The Ka'bah]: “Do not associate anything with Me; and purify My House for those who circle around, and those who stand to pray, and those who kneel and prostrate.” Qur'an 22:26

Muslims pray at the Ka'bah, not to the Ka'bah.

Muslims praying towards the Ka'bah in Mecca is much the same as Jews and even some Christians who pray toward Jerusalem and the Holy Temple. They are not worshiping the temple, but using it as a point of reference when worshiping God. In the early years of Islam, Muslims also prayed towards Jerusalem.

The Koran records that Allah is the author of evil. (Surah 91:7&8)

7. And a soul and Him Who perfected it, 8. And inspired it with conscience of what is wrong for it and what is right for it.

These verses are talking about man. In verse 8, it's talking about how man has been given the natural ability to distinguish between good and evil.

The Koran records that Allah commanded Satan to worship Adam.(Surah 2.32)

I think you are referring to verse 34 here. "And We said to the angels, “Bow down to Adam.” They bowed down, except for Satan. He refused, was arrogant, and was one of the disbelievers."

This was not a command given to worship Adam, it was a command to bow down to him as a a sign of honor and respect just as one would do today in certain cultures.

Here is an excellent course offered for free that I recommend that covers the basics of Islam and how to reach out to Muslims with the gospel: The Gospel and Islam - TVSEMINARY Trinity Video Seminary

 

[Carl Emerson]

Thanks for the response...

My major at university was Phenomenology of Religion and two of the most important things I learned were.

1. If you want to understand the character of the god folks worship just look at their behaviour.

2. If you want the truth of what is going on spiritually, look for the actions of the people not the claims they make.

Using these principles there is a very strong parallel between Islam today and rebellious Israel and the golden calf under Aaron's leadership.

Fact - Millions bowing and kissing a black stone.

The action tells you what is going on spiritually, what is claimed about it does not.

 

[JosephZ]

Thanks for the response...

My major at university was Phenomenology of Religion and two of the most important things I learned were.

1. If you want to understand the character of the god folks worship just look at their behaviour.

2. If you want the truth of what is going on spiritually, look for the actions of the people not the claims they make.

Using these principles there is a very strong parallel between Islam today and rebellious Israel and the golden calf under Aaron's leadership.

Fact - Millions bowing and kissing a black stone.

The action tells you what is going on spiritually, what is claimed about it does not.

Would this same method of determining what's going on spiritually also apply to those who worship in the Catholic church with their many statues of Mary and the saints, and the millions of Catholics who bow to these statues and ceremoniously kiss the statue's feet? Many Catholics also kiss the Crucifix and The Rosary. In the Orthodox Church pilgrimages to visit relics of dead saints and the kissing these relics is common.

Based on this behavior, wouldn't that put many in the Catholic and Orthodox churches in the same category as Islam and rebellious Israel under Aaron's leadership using this method of judgement? Doesn't that make them idol worshipers instead of worshipers of God using that test of spiritually you described?

 

[dlamberth]

Thanks for the response...

My major at university was Phenomenology of Religion and two of the most important things I learned were.

1. If you want to understand the character of the god folks worship just look at their behaviour.

2. If you want the truth of what is going on spiritually, look for the actions of the people not the claims they make.

Using these principles there is a very strong parallel between Islam today and rebellious Israel and the golden calf under Aaron's leadership.

Fact - Millions bowing and kissing a black stone.

The action tells you what is going on spiritually, what is claimed about it does not.

Spiritually, though I do agree with your two take always, I look at things completely different. Rather than how a people worship, I look at how a people make God a reality in their lives. And I do that by how they treat other people, especially the poor and those in need. That's where in my opinion the rubber meets the road and how God is made a reality in ones life.

On the other hand, if I were to take your arguments to heart (which I don't) , I could look at Christians drinking blood and eating flesh and come to the same kinds of conclusions about Christianity that your coming up with Islam.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

The action tells you what is going on spiritually, what is claimed about it does not.

As per post #5. If one uses the same test for Christianity, it has also proved false by that test.

One has to go beyond what followers do in the Name of God and look only at the Message and giver of that Message from God. What did they really teach?

Regards Tony

 

[Lost4words]

Would this same method of determining what's going on spiritually also apply to those who worship in the Catholic church with their many statues of Mary and the saints, and the millions of Catholics who bow to these statues and ceremoniously kiss the statue's feet? Many Catholics also kiss the Crucifix and The Rosary. In the Orthodox Church pilgrimages to visit relics of dead saints and the kissing these relics is common.

Based on this behavior, wouldn't that put many in the Catholic and Orthodox churches in the same category as Islam and rebellious Israel under Aaron's leadership using this method of judgement? Doesn't that make them idol worshipers instead of worshipers of God using that test of spiritually you described?

The difference being, that Catholics are worshipping the TRUE God. I really dont know what muslims worship?

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

The difference being, that Catholics are worshipping the TRUE God. I really dont know what muslims worship?

The same One God, called Allah.

It is man that makes of the One God, many gods. The reason being is that God has many names and attributes. It is foretold that at the end of ages, all those names will become One.

If we hold to names, we hold to our own vision of the One God and make another god.

Regards Tony

 

[Carl Emerson]

Spiritually, though I do agree with your two take always, I look at things completely different. Rather than how a people worship, I look at how a people make God a reality in their lives. And I do that by how they treat other people, especially the poor and those in need. That's where in my opinion the rubber meets the road and how God is made a reality in ones life.

On the other hand, if I were to take your arguments to heart (which I don't) , I could look at Christians drinking blood and eating flesh and come to the same kinds of conclusions about Christianity that your coming up with Islam.

Yes that is what I was saying... it is all about what they do that shows us about what they worship not what they claim.

Christians dont actually drink blood or eat flesh. As I keep stressing it is what they do that tells us about what they worship not what they claim or think.

 

[Carl Emerson]

As per post #5. If one uses the same test for Christianity, it has also proved false by that test.

One has to go beyond what followers do in the Name of God and look only at the Message and giver of that Message from God. What did they really teach?

Regards Tony

True religion is to look after widows and orphans in their distress and keep oneself unstained by the world.
Yes much religious activity does not pass this test.

 

[Saint Steven]

On the other hand, if I were to take your arguments to heart (which I don't) , I could look at Christians drinking blood and eating flesh and come to the same kinds of conclusions about Christianity that your coming up with Islam.

Christians are NOT "drinking blood and eating flesh". So much for your conclusion.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The same One God, called Allah.

It is man that makes of the One God, many gods. The reason being is that God has many names and attributes. It is foretold that at the end of ages, all those names will become One.

If we hold to names, we hold to our own vision of the One God and make another god.

Regards Tony

Good try, but this sounds like the AntiChrist to me... There is One name under heaven through which we can be saved...

 

[Saint Steven]

The same One God, called Allah.

It is man that makes of the One God, many gods. The reason being is that God has many names and attributes. It is foretold that at the end of ages, all those names will become One.

If we hold to names, we hold to our own vision of the One God and make another god.

Regards Tony

If all these gods were the same God they would have the same gospel. Not the case.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Good try, but this sounds like the AntiChrist to me... There is One name under heaven through which we can be saved...

That is Christ, the Holy Spirit.

What does Christ mean?

The 'Anointed One'. Thus Jesus was born of Annointed of the 'Holy Spirit'.

This same Spirit is all of Gods Messengers. The First and the Last, the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and Omega. It is not the flesh body of Jesus, as Christ has offered, it is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh amounts to nothing.

Regards Tony

 

[dlamberth]

Yes that is what I was saying... it is all about what they do that shows us about what they worship not what they claim.

Christians dont actually drink blood or eat flesh. As I keep stressing it is what they do that tells us about what they worship not what they claim or think.

And I'm suggesting that it's not how we worship. As I keep stressing, it's how we take God into Humanity that matters.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

If all these gods were the same God they would have the same gospel. Not the case.

If one looks for the same Gospel it can be found. The only difference we will find is that laws and ordinances change from age to age. The Spiritual Truths do no, like the Golden Rule.

Regards Tony

 

[dlamberth]

Christians are NOT "drinking blood and eating flesh". So much for your conclusion.

Symbolically Christians very much are drinking blood and eating flesh. Just as kissing a black rock is a symbolic gesture.

 

[dlamberth]

If all these gods were the same God they would have the same gospel. Not the case.

I personally believe that the Heart of all spiritual teaching is simple. Be Love. Be Peace. Be Harmony. Be compassion. And Be Joy. Everything else beyond that is just stuff.

 

[Saint Steven]

If one looks for the same Gospel it can be found. The only difference we will find is that laws and ordinances change from age to age. The Spiritual Truths do no, like the Golden Rule.

Regards Tony

The word gospel means good news.
Where is the vicarious atonement in any religion other than Christianity?
The vicarious atonement means that Christ paid the penalty for our sin so that we don't have to. Where is that in Islam, for example?

Do you mock me with an Optimistic post rating?