Demons - real or not?

[JacksBratt]

Not on everyone's heart.

Open your bible to Romans 2:15

 

[JacksBratt]

Jewish believe that Satan isn't evil as Christianity says. He is still an angel who's role is to test man and also be an accuser of man before God.

Thank you for explaining.

However, I still hold that Satan is still an angel, just a fallen angel.

He still holds all the powers that he once had, including the fact that he is one of, if not the most beautiful of all Gods creatures.

 

[JacksBratt]

J
Yes, i agree as well. That is why i don't believe people just shoot up to heaven or hell because there are sins that are not evil enough; sins that were made due to bad decision making, ignorance, or whatever circumstance.

When people die.. that's it.. Their are done. Their life is over and they will be held to one question...
Did you accept Christ as your savior. Period. (because we are all sinners...right)

There is no "well I tried"..... or "I think so" .. or "I only did little sins".. Nope.. You are either redeemed... or not.

I have been a Christian for almost 50 years. I've had my good years, my growing years and I am still growing.. yet, I sin every day. No matter how hard I try.

Of course I am continually trying to become more like Christ and shine His light for others to see.. But, I am human and I sin.

I have no license to sin and the sins are still wrong and hurt me, other people and my ministry for Christ.. But... they are covered by the blood of my savior and when I die, I will be seen as righteous as Christ's blood has made me white as snow and covers my iniquities.

"For there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus"

 

[Cis.jd]

Well, i for one am very skeptic towards the existence of Satan. Out of any theological topic that can be discussed, it's Satan that makes 0 sense.

When people die.. that's it.. Their are done. Their life is over and they will be held to one question...
Did you accept Christ as your savior. Period. (because we are all sinners...right)

There is no "well I tried"..... or "I think so" .. or "I only did little sins".. Nope.. You are either redeemed... or not.

I have been a Christian for almost 50 years. I've had my good years, my growing years and I am still growing.. yet, I sin every day. No matter how hard I try.

Of course I am continually trying to become more like Christ and shine His light for others to see.. But, I am human and I sin.

I have no license to sin and the sins are still wrong and hurt me, other people and my ministry for Christ.. But... they are covered by the blood of my savior and when I die, I will be seen as righteous as Christ's blood has made me white as snow and covers my iniquities.

"For there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus"

This is bad theology. Please re-read my post, check the video link as well and then think about some of the things that happened by Christians in history, in addition to the verses I provide. Accepting Christ is much more deeper than what you just said here, and a non-christian has been shown to be more christ like than christians these days. We have to have reason and rationality when we read the scriptures, we can't just build our beliefs based on what we interpret from what is said at face value. We have to study it, and understand the circumstances IRL and during that time.

Why would a Christian such as the villagers who voted women and children to be burned alive due to believing they were witches have more rights at all to just go to heaven with out any payment for what they did? Not only does that make no sense but that shows a horrible god. If you imagine yourself as a family member of one of those victims and you saw someone just give that person an instant reward with out any punishment or justice on your behalf, you would be completely angry and if you pretend other wise you are lying or just completely heartless.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Open your bible to Romans 2:15

Sorry, better read the whole chapter, or more of it, who is being spoken about. NOT EVERYONE, in fact not most of the whole world , the whole world that refuses to stop serving demons. The pernicious society.

Galatians, Ephesians, The Apocalypse, et al.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

When people die.. that's it.. Their are done. Their life is over and they will be held to one question...

They will not be held to one question.

It is written somewhere in the NT, that because of their unbelief, they are already condemned (before they die). They have no defense. There is no sacrifice for their sins. They can in no way repent after death, nor be saved in any way.

 

[JacksBratt]

Watch this guy. And tell me if a non christian, who grew up knowing nothing about Jesus till he went to NYC for vacation and saw this guy. Are you that close minded in your fundamentalism that you think it's still this persons fault for not accepting christ?

Whose fault is it if they don't accept Christ?

When you stand before Christ are you going to say "well Jesus, I saw this guy in NYC and he didn't look like anyone that I wanted to be.. so... I denied you"

You think your going to blame your denial of Christ on someone else? Seriously?

Nope.. it's you and you alone. You and you alone are responsible for your actions.

When you face Christ.. it will be just you...........and Him.. and the whole record of your life. Your not going to escape judgement because you didn't have dinner with Billy Graham.

Christ will judge you on one thing.... Did you accept Him... He already knows.. but He will ask you, then show you why He is right.

If you had accepted Him.. then He will stand for you in front of God and Satan, your accuser.

 

[JacksBratt]

So what is your point here? Yes, we all have sinned.. who here denied that? What you've just shown is more logical weight to what I am telling you. Do you think that mistake of a good employee warrants him to be fired, no.. is it good enough for him to get a promotion or raise, no. That work analogy fits the philosophy of the after life -- and unlike that "1 late blemish", IRL we even make more sins, sins that we are probably not aware of, unlike 1 "late" from a "perfect attendance".. yet none of our sins deserve hell, and some of our sins have to be corrected especially if someone was hurt by it.

Salvation is not like a place of business or a workplace.

Salvation is admitting that you sinned. Admitting that you are not worthy of salvation.

Heaven is only for the righteous. There is nothing any man, woman or child can do to pay for even the smallest of sins. Even the smallest sin would have rendered Christ unable to die for our sins... He would have had to die for His own.

You can show up late for work and not be fired. You can get the biggest deal at work and not get promoted... That's man's world.

We all start our lives on the road to hell. There is no way off that road unless we accept Christ as our savior..

This whole idea of "Oooh you do that and your going straight to hell".. Nope.. we're all already going there.

However, humble yourself before Him and admit you are lost without Him. That He is the way the truth and the life... That nobody comes to the Father but through Him... and... you are instantly off the road to hell... out of the crowded proverbial hand basket... and are a new creature and a child of God.. bound for glory the moment you heart stops and you breath your last breath.

 

[Cis.jd]

Salvation is not like a place of business or a workplace.

Salvation is admitting that you sinned. Admitting that you are not worthy of salvation.

Heaven is only for the righteous. There is nothing any man, woman or child can do to pay for even the smallest of sins. Even the smallest sin would have rendered Christ unable to die for our sins... He would have had to die for His own.

I know it's not.. and i'm not debating about salvation entirely. I'm more about a logical understanding of the after life.. and shooting up to heaven/hell instantly or an instant pass guarantee because of "believing in Jesus no matter what circumstance or actions done" is just a bit illogical.

There are just too many evils that specific christians have done in all denominations. Aside from the Salem Witch Trials, the Catholic Church has with the dark ages and pedophile priests.. then there was this incident in where a Pentecostal church held this huge-long march for Christ on the public roads, causing traffic for nearly 4 hours and two people in traffic died because one person was going into labor while the other was in serious need of medical attention. Why would Jesus just allow these guys an instant pass to heaven and ignore what happened to the people who died? These christians don't get punished at all?

 

[JacksBratt]

Yes, Christ made it possible but at the end it doesn't mean the sins you make against others will be swept under the rug.

Really? I mean, I know I am going to sin, even though I try not to.. and I know that I have no license to sin.. but really.. you think that, after receiving the free gift of salvation.. Christ is going to put me in a penalty box for a few years.. until I have paid for them?

What do you think the word "all" is referring to here. I think it means ALL.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.

Mark 3:28 "Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;

Hebrews 10:12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God.

Oh, and the reason that people are not forgiven..... One reason and one reason only:

John 16:8-9a "And He (Holy Spirit), when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin, and righteousness, and judgment; [9] concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; ...

It's not complicated.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I'm more about a logical understanding of the after life.. and shooting up to heaven/hell instantly or an instant pass guarantee because of "believing in Jesus no matter what circumstance or actions done" is just a bit illogical.

THAT is not what God's Word Says, nor His Plan or Purpose.

 

[Cis.jd]

Whose fault is it if they don't accept Christ?

When you stand before Christ are you going to say "well Jesus, I saw this guy in NYC and he didn't look like anyone that I wanted to be.. so... I denied you"

You think your going to blame your denial of Christ on someone else? Seriously?

Nope.. it's you and you alone. You and you alone are responsible for your actions.

When you face Christ.. it will be just you...........and Him.. and the whole record of your life. Your not going to escape judgement because you didn't have dinner with Billy Graham.

Christ will judge you on one thing.... Did you accept Him... He already knows.. but He will ask you, then show you why He is right.

If you had accepted Him.. then He will stand for you in front of God and Satan, your accuser.

It's that guys fault. He is giving an image of the christian god. For those who don't know anything about christianity and the christian god, this is what they know now. So it's not their fault. At the same time why would anyone want to associate with a God when you see believers like that, the immediate impression is that they are crazy and preach hate. Your view of "well, just as long as you accept christ" is completely illogical, you really think God is that shallow that all sins are just swept under the rug because you believed in him? You being a good person is meaningless because you didn't believe him.. That is a god of vanity than a loving Father.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Why would Jesus just allow these guys an instant pass to heaven and ignore what happened to the people who died? These christians don't get punished at all?

No one escapes His Righteous Judgment.
Tradition you learned about or those things you posted/saw ignores this.

Deuteronomy 32:4

“He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.”

King James Version (KJV)

 

[Cis.jd]

THAT is not what God's Word Says, nor His Plan or Purpose.

You have no right nor knowledge to tell others what God's word says. The last thread i saw you in had every christian telling you how your views where not just wrong but bad because you were spamming "you are going to hell" for nearly everything. There is no reason why i should take your thoughts on what your militant Allah like god's word says seriously. You drive people away from Christ.

 

[JacksBratt]

What is also interesting is that you completely ignored my analogy with the Salem Witch Trials -- these people believed in Jesus but brutally murdered innocent people over a superstition.. do these people just go up to heaven and not have the agony and pain they caused go unanswered? What about adolf eichmann, the man who designed concentration camps. His last words was he did it for God. Does he go straight to heaven now?

According to the biblical scriptures.. if they believed in Christ and that He was the messiah and died on the cross for their sins.....and they asked for forgiveness and for the salvation of Christ....

Then, the answer is yes.. they will die and go to heaven.

I find it hard to believe that God fearing Christians could be so ignorant to do such a thing while indwelled by the Holy Spirit... but.. I am not the one to judge their heart.. am I now.

See, the thing is that we are mortal men with finite minds. We think as a man thinks and God does things the way God does.

In the end.. we are flawed and our ways are not God's ways. We have no right to tell God what is right and wrong.. or ... who should be in hell or who should not...


I'm 100% sure that those, who were Christian... if any really were.. and they wrongfully killed these so called witches... when they get to heaven.... those so called witches.. if they themselves were Christian and for that reason would be in heaven.... will forgive their torturers.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You have no right nor knowledge to tell others what God's word says.

Every child who can read can tell you what God's Word Says.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You drive people away from Christ.

Now you are speaking of what you know nothing.
Those seeking Christ and the Kingdom of Yahweh are hungry and thirsty for HIs Word, and REJOICE in the TRUTH -

THE SAME GOSPEL MESSAGE that is a fragrant aroma to all those who are destined for resurrection life in Christ Jesus,
is the aroma of DEATH for those destined for Judgment.

 

[JacksBratt]

I know it's not.. and i'm not debating about salvation entirely. I'm more about a logical understanding of the after life.. and shooting up to heaven/hell instantly or an instant pass guarantee because of "believing in Jesus no matter what circumstance or actions done" is just a bit illogical.

Hey... to you and me it may not be "logical" But... I'm not God and I don't have the right or power to decide that...

That is what the bible says. The bible is God's word. Who am I to question it?

There are just too many evils that specific christians have done in all denominations. Aside from the Salem Witch Trials, the Catholic Church has with the dark ages and pedophile priests.. then there was this incident in where a Pentecostal church held this huge-long march for Christ on the public roads, causing traffic for nearly 4 hours and two people in traffic died because one person was going into labor while the other was in serious need of medical attention. Why would Jesus just allow these guys an instant pass to heaven and ignore what happened to the people who died? These christians don't get punished at all?

I agree, there have been many terrible things done... Not only that but they were done in the Name of Christ or God...

One thing is for sure.. anyone who did these things in the name of God.. and was not covered by the blood.. will face eternal damantaion.

Problem is.. we don't know if they did it out of ignorance or under the teaching of someone that they trusted to be teaching the truth of God....

We just don't know..

But.. what I do know.. is that every human who dies.. will be given a just and fair judgement by a loving, merciful and gracious Lord and savior who is the personification of love itself.

In the end... all will agree with their place of eternal dwelling... None will argue.. they will all know that they are in their proper place based on their belief in the creator and savior.

There will not be one who has the arogance to stand up and tell Christ that they disagree with His judgement.

There will not be one who stands up and asks for more or less of a punishment for someone else...

All will be done and it will stand and it will be righteous... in the eyes of all.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

2 Corinthians 2:16 To the one, we are an odor of death ... - Bible Hub

https://biblehub.com/2_corinthians/2-16.htm
to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life. Who is sufficient for these things? Berean Study Bible To the one, we are an odor ...
‎2 Corinthians 2:15 · ‎2 Corinthians 2:16 KJV · ‎2 Corinthians 2:16 · ‎2 Corinthians 2:17
2 Corinthians 2:15-17 ESV - For we are the aroma of ... - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+2%3A15-17...
For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, to one a fragrance from death to death, to.

 

[Cis.jd]

According to the biblical scriptures.. if they believed in Christ and that He was the messiah and died on the cross for their sins.....and they asked for forgiveness and for the salvation of Christ....

Then, the answer is yes.. they will die and go to heaven.

But in the Bible we also read that isn't enough. The Rich asked Jesus about what he should do. There was a life style and call to action involved.

I find it hard to believe that God fearing Christians could be so ignorant to do such a thing while indwelled by the Holy Spirit... but.. I am not the one to judge their heart.. am I now.

These things happened and they were christians, they just were not educated or smart. Being a Christian and filled with the HS doesn't automatically boost your IQ or give you "spidey-senses". The fact is these christians have either unintentionally or wrongfully hurt someone due to religious thinking over rationality. What you believe about them is meaningless.. because at the end you need to rationalize why it is good to just let these christians go to heaven with out any justification towards the pain they caused someone.

I'm 100% sure that those, who were Christian... if any really were.. and they wrongfully killed these so called witches... when they get to heaven.... those so called witches.. if they themselves were Christian and for that reason would be in heaven.... will forgive their torturers.

So in the end, even murder --even burning of innocent people to even children-- now is just "swept under the rug". Because xyz just forgave. So i can burn people because I really think they are demons, and hey.. if I am wrong, they will forgive me because they are in heaven and so will god because despite my superstitious rooted mistake, I still believed in him.
IRL, there was this serial killer who skinned and ate people.. if so ever the family of his victims forgives him, should the judge with hold justice because of that?
Come on brother, I understand that you are determined to make sure your protestant beliefs are correct but you know deep down that is completely irrational.