Should we accept and use non-binary gender pronouns?

[JazzHands]

Yeah things aren’t a “mess” where I live, though. My transgender friend was miserable and terrified before she transitioned, and when she lived where people didn’t accept her ( she was never accepted for the 35 years she lived as a man.). She never felt grounded, she was relentlessly picked on for being too feminine. There is no safety net. In the places that are more religious and that religion teaches that transgender people are “wrong,” they are murdered at an exceptionally high rate. Like I said, get to know a transgender person, hear their life story. Walk down the steeet with them, see what they deal with every day. Then make an analysis.

I'm sorry but anecdotal examples aren't going to alter my gut feeling on this. I feel for your friend and I'm sorry they were miserable before they 'transitioned' but I would submit that the diagnosis was flawed as was the prescription. I'm assuming your friend was male originally but was perhaps, somewhat effeminate, and living in an area where such characteristics are viewed with suspicion. I go back to my previous point which is that your friend should have been removed from that unhealthy environment and allowed to develop naturally, not encouraged to surrender their identity.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I think they said there are like 34 sexes or something now. Maybe sexual prefrences? Whatever the case I refuse to use them. If your born a female and became male, I am going to call you a female still. I don't care if you like it or not. There are only two genders and only one type of sexuality. Granted I do use the word "gay". But thats about it. If not accepting this new age stuff gets me in trouble, I'm fine with that. I'd rather suffer for His sake then suffer from Him when I stand before Him.

 

[NBB]

Yeah things aren’t a “mess” where I live, though. My transgender friend was miserable and terrified before she transitioned, and when she lived where people didn’t accept her ( she was never accepted for the 35 years she lived as a man.). She never felt grounded, she was relentlessly picked on for being too feminine. There is no safety net. In the places that are more religious and that religion teaches that transgender people are “wrong,” they are murdered at an exceptionally high rate. Like I said, get to know a transgender person, hear their life story. Walk down the steeet with them, see what they deal with every day. Then make an analysis.

We should love them, but what they do is still 'sadly' wrong.

 

[RDKirk]

A. Nobody who has been enabled by the Father to accept Jesus is going to be lost over pronouns.

B. It's not going to take hold in the long run. Languages become less complex over time, they don't become more complex. As immigration to the US continues, that's going to become more and more true. As more and more people learn no other way to communicated than by typing with their thumbs, that's going to become more and more true. Efforts to make English more complex will ultimately fail.

Now, where they actually fall in line with simplifying the language, they will work. People have been eschewing singular gendered pronouns in preference to "them" and "their" for generations. Kids going to school in my day had to unlearn using "them" and "their" in that manner. So not having to learn a rule will stick. Learning additional rules--particularly rules that aren't continuously in play--is not going to stick.

 

[RDKirk]

As a close friend of a transgender person I can tell you that a transgender person would not attend a church where their pronoun choice was not honored.

Once upon a time I wouldn't attend a church where the pastor was white.

When I did, it was because God told me explicitly that I had to.

Nobody who has been enabled by the Father to accept Jesus is going to be lost over pronouns.

 

[Seventeen76]

You know your own intent. If you're using a pronoun to deliberately antagonize a TG, shame on you.
However, neither are you subject to the progressive new age strategy of redefining words and terminology to condition and change culture. Words and language have meaning and you don't need to legitimize the passive aggressive tactic of redefining language.

Instead, you could just use their name. If you aren't dealing with someone directly, or dont know them well enough to address them by their NAME, no reasonable person should expect you to know and adopt the TG lexicon any more than you would expect them to master the lexicon specifically used in christian circles.

 

[RDKirk]

You know your own intent. If you're using a pronoun to deliberately antagonize a TG, shame on you.
However, neither are you subject to the progressive new age strategy of redefining words and terminology to condition and change culture. Words and language have meaning and you don't need to legitimize the passive aggressive tactic of redefining language.

Instead, you could just use their name. If you aren't dealing with someone directly, or dont know them well enough to address them by their NAME, no reasonable person should expect you to know and adopt the TG lexicon any more than you would expect them to master the lexicon specifically used in christian circles.

Didn't you watch my video? You are supposed to ask each individual at the beginning of each conversation what pronoun that person prefers. That day.

 

[StephenDiscipleofYHWH]

Those who identify as transgendered can become disconnected with their birth gender but also not fully connected with the other side so can, but not all, prefer more gender neutral pronouns or nonbinary pronouns that extend beyond the he/she options

I differentiate between neutral and nonbinary in that neutral uses the established plural pronoun which is already gender neutral where nonbinary invents new pronouns.

A neutral example would be they/their/them and a nonbinary example may be ze/zer/zem (there are many others)

So in the following example "You can buy his book at the corner store" would change to "you can buy their book at..." or "you can buy zer book at..." and this would be at the individuals preference based on how they want to be identified.

The former use of the plural pronoun is inherited if you cannot obviously identify the gender of a person. You just replace man/woman with person and it is automatic. "That man is getting his haircut" turns into "that person is getting their haircut". This is natural if we are not sure but should we comply if we are sure (or at least think we are) and/or upon request not to be called he/she but by another pronoun?

Is this just being decent and respectful, an example of love your neighbour, or does it unfairly force ideologies that traditional Christianity can't agree with?

I would call them by their name. If I did not know their name I would call them what God made them to be, either a man or a woman. Anything else isn't shown in the bible, as it would be a lie to call them something they are not.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I'm not asking about what they consider acceptable or responsible, as the premise is about their voiced request so their desires are clear. I'm asking what the churches response should be. Do we dishonour God by using nonbinary pronouns or do we help lead a trans closer to God by respecting them in a way they desire? I honestly don't know.

Neither. Changing the language to suit an extremely small portion of society with a mental health disorder is not dishonoring God, nor does it in any way help anyone to be closer to God . It is just catering to someone's delusion. That would be best described as being patronizing. I cannot help but think that there is a practical joke being played and the word zer was made up because of how ridiculous it makes anyone that uses it sound.

 

[gideon123]

"Socialism only emerges when people choose to surrender their liberties in exchange for security"

I want to give you some eye opening comments. But please dont interpret this as a personal attack. Its not. I just hate to see Americans repeating the same old blather, while their brains turn into peanut butter.

I get my medical care from Brazil. Many people might call them socialist, because essentially thats how the health care works. I like them a lot, because the doctors are friendly, competent, and they make time for me. I dont get my medical care from the USA, because no general medical services have ever been provided by our current president, the cost of care is outrageous, and the system keeps inventing rules for why it wont treat people. So i have to say ... all those doctors working in "socialist systems" are doing a pretty good job.

Are Americans still free? In some ways, yes! But how many Govt agencies read your emails today and analyzed you to see if you are a 'threat'?? Maybe more than you realize.
Blessings!!

 

[JazzHands]

..I cannot help but think that there is a practical joke being played and the word zer was made up because of how ridiculous it makes anyone that uses it sound.

That thought had occurred to me too. In fact, I'm starting to wonder if a lot of this conspicuous fake news is being pedaled by feral youths having a laugh at what they perceive to be an outdated inflexible social relic.. i.e. traditionalism.

 

[JazzHands]

"Socialism only emerges when people choose to surrender their liberties in exchange for security"

I want to give you some eye opening comments. But please dont interpret this as a personal attack. Its not. I just hate to see Americans repeating the same old blather, while their brains turn into peanut butter.

I get my medical care from Brazil. Many people might call them socialist, because essentially thats how the health care works. I like them a lot, because the doctors are friendly, competent, and they make time for me. I dont get my medical care from the USA, because no general medical services have ever been provided by our current president, the cost of care is outrageous, and the system keeps inventing rules for why it wont treat people. So i have to say ... all those doctors working in "socialist systems" are doing a pretty good job.

Are Americans still free? In some ways, yes! But how many Govt agencies read your emails today and analyzed you to see if you are a 'threat'?? Maybe more than you realize.
Blessings!!

Gideon, I appreciate the contribution however, I'm not American, I'm English and over here, we have a truly monolithic welfare system and the NHS is the largest single expense the taxpayer has to bear.

The problem is, with it being such a giant public body and with it employing so many staff, it has enormous influence on National politics to the extent that it can practically make or break a party's bid for power so they pander to this enormous creaking leviathan and feed it with all the money it can consume... which is never enough.

In the mean time, what was meant to be an emergency triage service for destitute citizens has become a full blown public 'wellness' centre with the power to lobby for social change in so many insidious ways from forcing food and drink manufacturers to lower salt and sugar contents to raising premiums on alcohol and tobacco. It is becoming the poster child for socialist totalitarianism and I for one would be happy to see the whole thing crumble!

As for all this nonsense about shady superspies trawling through infinite amounts of personal data to discover which is your favourite Kama Sutra position, I don't buy it and it sounds like the same marxist fear-mongering I've been witnessing more and more this past decade.

Blessings!

 

[Tetra]

I personally don't care what people want me to call them, I'd call you a velociraptor you wanted me too.

I also don't even see what relevance it is to Christendom. It's not like the Bible speaks out against the use of alternative pronouns. I'm sure some will use Biblical gymnastics to try and make that case though.

 

[Tetra]

I'm an old guy. While it is true that youth rebel, that rebellion has never manifested itself to the extent now where genderless belief has become so widespread/accepted.
Bear in mind that the original baphomet had both male and female parts thus blurring the distinction between man and woman. That should give you a clue as to the origin behind these ideologies.

What logic is this? What of those who are intersex??

 

[Seventeen76]

"Socialism only emerges when people choose to surrender their liberties in exchange for security"

I get my medical care from Brazil. Many people might call them socialist, because essentially thats how the health care works. I like them a lot, because the doctors are friendly, competent, and they make time for me. I dont get my medical care from the USA, because no general medical services have ever been provided by our current president, the cost of care is outrageous, and the system keeps inventing rules for why it wont treat people. So i have to say ... all those doctors working in "socialist systems" are doing a pretty good job.

The problem with socialist healthcare is that it is an immoral intervention on the free exchange of man. Health care is a SERVICE, not some inalienable right, provided by one party, who invested time and money to develop a skill, to another in exchange for some of their services or good. It should be a willing, negotiable exchange between private parties who determine when and if services are necessary at what cost to themselves.

Socialism removes and/or obscures basic natural economic concepts like supply and demand, price discovery, risk/reward, scarcity, etc. It does this by STEALING money from numerous citizens and TRANSFERRING that money to a third party leaving the patient free of economic considerations mentioned above.

Socialism is simply government sponsored criminal theft.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

What logic is this? What of those who are intersex??

Intersex I'd call them by whatever they chose. They are the one exception. Having dated an intersex person, I learned alot. I also learned they are hated by LGBT.

 

[Seventeen76]

I personally don't care what people want me to call them, I'd call you a velociraptor you wanted me too.

I also don't even see what relevance it is to Christendom. It's not like the Bible speaks out against the use of alternative pronouns. I'm sure some will use Biblical gymnastics to try and make that case though.

It's not the specific linguistics at issue, but the intent and meaning of those words. The Bible seems to make it very clear that God created man and women with unique differences and distinct purpose. The pronouns are simply a way to cloud those differences and condition people to water down the sanctity of God's creation.

Course, the lesson of the Tower of Babel is that language would become a means to confuse people, to cloud our judgment and definition of basic natural and spiritual truths, instead justifying our own sinful drift into our own governance and worldviews.

 

[JazzHands]

Intersex I'd call them by whatever they chose. They are the one exception. Having dated an intersex person, I learned alot. I also learned they are hated by LGBT.

I had to look up what 'intersex' was Yeah, in those rare cases, it's perfectly understandable why a degree of sensitivity should be employed and I'd be happy to use their pronoun of choice.

 

[Tetra]

The Bible seems to make it very clear that God created man and women with unique differences and distinct purpose.

So those whom are Intersex aren't God's creations? Also, what exactly do you define as "unique differences and distinct purpose", if it's simply procreation, non-binary people can do that, so I don't get the issue here.

The pronouns are simply a way to cloud those differences and condition people to water down the sanctity of God's creation.

I'm sorry, really? Pronoun use is all it takes to water down the sanctity of God's creation??? Holy jeepers man, I didn't realize the sanctity of God's creation is so easily toppled.

 

[Oldmantook]

What logic is this? What of those who are intersex??

and what of them?