WHO IS GOD'S TRUE CHURCH ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD?

[klutedavid]

Now David, Are you saying that God's WORD really means some of God's Commandments when elsewhere in JAMES 2:8-11 makes it very clear that if we break one of God's commandments we stand guilty before God or breaking ALL of them?

James says, 'the whole law', but you say, 'all of the commandments'. I see a distinct difference in the wording and you do not see any difference. You need to be cleansed, to be purified, to be baptized with the fire.

1 John 2:15
Do not love the world nor the things in the world.

That is a commandment that Jesus gave. That commandment is not in the ten commandments. That is why the apostles never say, 'the ten commandments'. Because the apostles are following the law of Christ.

You cannot see the commandments.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

James says, 'the whole law', but you say, 'all of the commandments'. I see a distinct difference in the wording and you do not see any difference. You need to be cleansed, to be purified, to be baptized with the fire.

1 John 2:15
Do not love the world nor the things in the world.

That is a commandment that Jesus gave. That commandment is not in the ten commandments. That is why the apostles never say, 'the ten commandments'. Because the apostles are following the law of Christ.

You cannot see the commandments.

What law is James talking about? He is talking about the law of LOVE that PAUL says sums up the 10 Commandments that are our duty of LOVE to our neighbor. *ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12. You close your eyes to God's WORD

 

[klutedavid]

If our eyes are not open we cannot see the Garden of Eden or the paradise of God. Sin closes our eyes and makes us blind but seeking Jesus can open the blind eyes to see and the deaf to hear. Truly, truly, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I say unto you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Do you know the scriptures David?

Well LGW, enough to know that you are not really repenting of your sin. Because if you did honestly repent, then logically, you would be as pure as the driven snow.

Stop sinning and follow your own teaching.

 

[klutedavid]

What law is James talking about? He is talking about the law of LOVE that PAUL says sums up the 10 Commandments that are our duty of LOVE to our neighbor. *ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12. You close your eyes to God's WORD

Here we go again.

Are you commanded to love your neighbor or is that a duty to love your neighbor?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Well LGW, enough to know that you are not really repenting of your sin. Because if you did honestly repent, then logically, you would be as pure as the driven snow.

Stop sinning and follow your own teaching.

God is my judge not you. We are not to judge another. I do not judge you.

ROMANS 2:1-11
[1], Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whosoever you are that judge: for in what you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you that judge do the same things.
[2], But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them who commit such things.
[3], And do you think, O man, that judge them who do such things, and do the same, that you shall escape the judgment of God?
[4], Or despise you the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
[5], But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart treasure up unto yourself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
[6], Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[7], To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
[8], But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[9], Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek;
[10], But glory, honor, and peace, to every man that works good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek:
[11], For there is no respect of persons with God.

Do you know these scriptures Dave?

 

[Saint Steven]

Sin is sin regardless if you know it to be sin or not. The scriptures provided in JAMES 4:17 and ACTS 17:30-31 show that you are held accountable to sin when you receive a KNOWLEDGE that sin is sin. At this time God expects you to repent of it. These are God's WORD not mine. It is not hard to understand. What is your problem? Do you think God holds new Christians accountable to sin that they may not not know something they are doing is sin before he gives them a knowledge of it?

It seems that you are hung up on individual "sins" but don't understand the basic concept of "sin" as a singular thing.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

Genesis 4:7
If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

Romans 3:23-24
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Here we go again.

Are you commanded to love your neighbor or is that a duty to love your neighbor?

JAMES 2:8-11
[8], If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well:
[9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

ROMANS 13:9
[8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law.
[9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, IT IS SUMMED UP IN THE SAYING, NAMELY, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Continuing LOVE shows no patiality in fulfilling God's LAW...

[9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.
[12], So speak, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

JAMES show the same thinking as PAUL in ROMANS 13:8-10. LOVE is the FULFILLING of the law in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW Gods WORD.

Sorry David, God's WORD disagrees with you.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It seems that you are hung up on individual "sins" but don't understand the basic concept of "sin" as a singular thing.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

Genesis 4:7
If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

Romans 3:23-24
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Not at all. You are misrepresenting the scriptures I have shared with you. Misrepresenting the views of others is bearing false witness. This is what God's WORD says not me.

JAMES 4:17 Therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.

ACTS 17:30-31
[30], And the times of this ignorance God overlooked; but now commands all men everywhere to repent:
[31], Because he has appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; and of this he has given assurance unto all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.

There is a growing in the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD. When we are first Christians we do not know everything right away. As we continue in God's WORD we are his disciples and we learn everyday to be more and more like Jesus. That means putting away sin as it is revealed to us thorugh God's WORD.

2 PETER 3:18 [18], But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen.

JOHN 8:31-32 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews who believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Thinking you know everything right away as soon as you first become a babe in Christ is not biblical.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Actually YES it is. Here let me type out the scripture for you and highlight what the scriptures are talking about maybe you missed it.

JAMES 2:8-11.
[8], If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well:

NOTE: Here JAMES is talking about the ROYAL LAW or the 2nd GREAT COMMANDMENT of LOVE your Neighbore as yourself we do well. This is from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures of LEVITICUS 19:18. PAUL says that to LOVE your neighbor as yourself sums up all the 10 Commandments that are our duty of LOVE to our fellow man

ROMANS 13:9
[8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law.
[9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, IT IS SUMMED UP IN THE SAYING, NAMELY, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.
[10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Continuing LOVE shows no patiality in fulfilling God's LAW...

[9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.
[12], So speak, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

JAMES show the same thinking as PAUL in ROMANS 13:8-10. LOVE is the FULFILLING of the law in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW Gods WORD.

Sorry 1stcenturylady, God's WORD disagrees with you.

Where is partiality commanded against in the 10C. Show me.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Where is partiality commanded against in the 10C. Show me.

There is none that is the point

JAMES 2:10-11
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

 

[1stcenturylady]

There is none that is the point

Yes, that is the point that it is NOT the 10C that is the subject as you claim and can't see past, but the Law of Liberty. They are two different things.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes, that is the point that it is NOT the 10C that is the subject as you claim and can't see past, but the Law of Liberty. They are two different things.

Not at all. You think LOVE is separate to God's LAW while Jesus says in his own WORDS on these two great commandments of LOVE to God and man hang all the LAW and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40 because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very EXPRESSION of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. PAUL says that LOVE to our neighbor is the true motive and is a summary of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW *ROMANS 13:9. You do not know what the law of liberty is. It is freedom from sin.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Not at all. You think LOVE is separate to God's LAW Jesus says on these two great commandments of LOVE to God and man hang all the LAW and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40 because fulfilling God's LAW is the very EXPRESSION of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. PAUL says that it is LOVE to our neighbor is only a summary of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW *ROMANS 13:9. You do not know what the law of liberty is.

They could not bring man up to the standard of love. That is the point. But because sin was so great these bottom line laws were put into place to guard us as a tutor UNTIL Christ. Don't you understand "UNTIL."

Christ didn't make it so we are free of the punishment of sin as you claim, but of sin itself.

 

[Saint Steven]

Not at all. You are misrepresenting the scriptures I have shared with you. Misrepresenting the views of others is bearing false witness. This is what God's WORD says not me.

JAMES 4:17 Therefore to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin.

ACTS 17:30-31
[30], And the times of this ignorance God overlooked; but now commands all men everywhere to repent:
[31], Because he has appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; and of this he has given assurance unto all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.

There is a growing in the KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD. When we are first Christians we do not know everything right away. As we continue in God's WORD we are his disciples and we learn everyday to be more and more like Jesus. That means putting away sin as it is revealed to us thorugh God's WORD.

2 PETER 3:18 [18], But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever. Amen.

JOHN 8:31-32 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews who believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Thinking you know everything right away as soon as you first become a babe in Christ is not biblical.

I'm misrepresenting the scriptures?
I'm not the one claiming that sin isn't sin unless you know it is sin.

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

They could not bring man up to the standard of love. That is the point. But because sin was so great these bottom line laws were put into place to guard us as a tutor UNTIL Christ. Don't you understand "UNTIL."

Who said that the ten commandments can bring a man to the standard of love?

Truly, truly, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I say unto you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

We need to be Born of God through faith in God's WORD to love. This is the NEW COVENANT promise to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *HEBREWS 8:10-12.

Who can fix a broken heart or change a lepards spots?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I'm misrepresenting the scriptures?
I'm not the one claiming that sin isn't sin unless you know it is sin.

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Ok Steve I will leave that between you and God and lets agree to disagree. See earlier post click me linked

 

[1stcenturylady]

I'm misrepresenting the scriptures?
I'm not the one claiming that sin isn't sin unless you know it is sin.

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Some sins are not accountable to us if we don't know they are sins. Take for instance the person in 1 John 1:7. What types of sin are being committed by someone being guided by the Holy Spirit, for Jesus to be cleansing them? The Spirit doesn't lead us into lawlessness - the sins unto death. But there are sins NOT unto death that are unknown to us, and unwittingly committed. These are called trespasses. These are the sins spoken of in the Lord's Prayers. "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive others their trespasses against us." Therefore, as we forgive others, our own trespasses are cleansed by our Advocate. That is another point I wish to mention. 1 John 2:1 our advocate cleanses sins that do not require repentance, and it is not mentioned. If a sin is unknown to us, how can we repent? We can't, our Advocate takes care of them automatically, as we walk in the Spirit.

What the Church needs to be encouraging is a constant walk in the Spirit, and not the persistent looking for loopholes to fulfill the lust of the flesh, such as those posting 1 John 1:8 and Romans 7:14-23 and saying that is a Christian, and we will "always be in the flesh" in contradiction to Romans 8:9.

The truth is, a true Christian is not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. If you walk away from the Spirit and quench Him, you are in danger of hell fire. Galatians 5:19-21. There is no such thing as OSAS as those say who turn the grace of God into licentiousness, as Martin Luther who claimed, "No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day." RUN from those churches who ascribe to his heresy, and those are not just Lutheran, but all Reformation church denominations that subscribe to OSAS and live as they like. Also, Martin Luther says, "God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides."

At least SDA doesn't believe that nonsense. It is those who try to please God, not those who say they have fellowship with God, but walk in darkness that God will allow into heaven.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Who said that the ten commandments can bring a man to the standard of love?

Truly, truly, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I say unto you, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

We need to be Born of God through faith in God's WORD to love. This is the NEW COVENANT promise to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *HEBREWS 8:10-12.

Who can fix a broken heart or change a lepards spots?

You ask:
"Who said that the ten commandments can bring a man to the standard of love?"

But don't you see, only the righteous and holy can enter into God's rest. That is only through Christ who takes away our sin. It is through the Spirit, not the letter of the law that failed. You don't receive the Spirit by following the Ten Commandments, but through faith in Jesus whose Spirit kills the sin nature. Christ's standards are much higher than the baseline Ten Commandments. This is why Jesus said, "Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees (teachers of the law) you shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. The 10C are based on the commandments of love, but don't reach that standard.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You ask:
"Who said that the ten commandments can bring a man to the standard of love?"

But don't you see, only the righteous and holy can enter into God's rest. That is only through Christ who takes away our sin. It is through the Spirit, not the letter of the law that failed. You don't receive the Spirit by following the Ten Commandments, but through faith in Jesus whose Spirit kills the sin nature. Christ's standards are much higher than the baseline Ten Commandments. This is why Jesus said, "Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees (teachers of the law) you shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. The 10C are base on the commandments of love, but don't reach that standard.

Who said you recieve God's Spirit by following the letter of the LAW? I think what you are not understanding here is the role of God's LAW in salvation. God's LAW has the same role it always had and that is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:9-11; PSLAMS 119:172. It makes nothing perfect and does not save us.

It shows us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that that there is none righteous no not one and that all the world is guilty before God for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God *ROMANS 3:10-20. It is our teacher to show us our need of God's GRACE and salvation. It leads us to Christ that we might be FORGIVEN by faith and frees us to walk in God's Spirit so we no longer fulfill the lusts of the flesh. *GALATIANS 3:22-25; ROMANS 8:1-4; GALATIANS 5:16

 

[JLB777]

What law is James talking about? He is talking about the law of LOVE that PAUL says sums up the 10 Commandments that are our duty of LOVE to our neighbor. *ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12. You close your eyes to God's WORD

The 10 Commandments are definitely the law of love.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
1 John 5:3


I will say, His Commandments are not limited to the 10, as whatever He leads us to do, we should do because we love Him.


If you love Me keep My commandments.
John 14:15



JLB