WHO IS GOD'S TRUE CHURCH ACCORDING TO GOD'S WORD?

[Saint Steven]

It is sad you feel the need to make things up Steve despite your errors being corrected. I will leave that between you and God. It is God's WORD not mine that says that Grace is for OBEDIENCE to the faith. *ROMANS 1:5 By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name. Grace is not as liscence to sin and faith establishes God's LAW in the lives of those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. *ROMANS 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW. If your faith does not have any fruit then you do not have saving faith *JAMES 2:18-20;26 and you are still in your sins and need to be Born again *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

Do you believe that we can be saved in the here and now?

 

[Danthemailman]

Right. That puts grace received before the outcome of obedience. Rather than making the obedience a qualifier for grace to be received.

Amen! In regards to Romans 1:5, although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God.

*Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards.

*We have access by faith into grace.. Romans 5:2 not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Christ first, then "unto" obedience/good works.

 

[Neogaia777]

Your only 'UNDER THE LAW" if you stand guilty before God of breaking it.

This is very true, all are under the curse of the letter of the law, and need saving from it... But, I highly doubt that is what "you meant"... Cause this is never, ever you, right...?

2 Corinthians 3:6- "who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

Romans 3:23- "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory (perfect obedience) (the high mark of keeping the law fully) (also perfection) of God" (Christ Jesus).

God Bless!

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Depends on the audience.
This is a Christian forum. To call oneself "born again" out in the world brings with it a lot of negative baggage. I would say it is off-putting.

As for my username, are we not all saints?
Over 2,200 posts and you are the second to even mention it. And both seem to be misusing the term.

Ephesians 2:19
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Tell people you are a saint, out in the world, and that too will bring a whole lot of baggage. Some will think you are saying you are holier than them. Some will just think you are full of yourself. The followers of some churches who believe they decide who saints are will be offended by your declaration.

But, like I shared with you in my original post--if you read it all--I agree that those who are truly born again are also saints. Scripture declares that even more obviously in 1 Cor 6:2 where Ephesians 2:19 could suggest that we are simply fellow citizens with the saints, but not saints ourselves.

But, being born again, like Dave G already shared, was used by Jesus Christ Himself. If they find that offensive, they are believing a lie. You are believing a lie as well to think that you should only share things that aren't offensive. Jesus never backed away from sharing all God wanted Him to share. He never made that more clear than in John 6:32-71. He never toned it down to keep followers. He even turned to His 12 and asked if they wanted to leave, too. Then followed their weak decline "where else would we go?" with "Did I not call you the 12, and one of you is a devil." He clearly didn't follow today's church growth strategies. So was Jesus wrong or are today's churches?

 

[Dave G.]

Do you find that people are excited to hear about the Lord when you tell them you are born again? Or does that throw a cold wet blanket on the discussion?

Clue: they hung Him on the cross because they couldn't handle what He had to say.

i saw a poster, it showed a picture of two churches. One was a football stadium full of people, an obvious mega church and the caption said " what happens when you tell them what they want to hear". The other was a class room size set up with maybe a dozen people and it said " what happens when you tell them the truth".

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

Do you find that people are excited to hear about the Lord when you tell them you are born again? Or does that throw a cold wet blanket on the discussion?

So, consider the same question you ask Dave G. If you introduce yourself to people in the world as Saint Stephen, don't you think that has a negative impact on your discussion?

 

[Saint Steven]

Tell people you are a saint, out in the world, and that too will bring a whole lot of baggage. Some will think you are saying you are holier than them. Some will just think you are full of yourself. The followers of some churches who believe they decide who saints are will be offended by your declaration.

But, like I shared with you in my original post--if you read it all--I agree that those who are truly born again are also saints. Scripture declares that even more obviously in 1 Cor 6:2 where Ephesians 2:19 could suggest that we are simply fellow citizens with the saints, but not saints ourselves.

But, being born again, like Dave G already shared, was used by Jesus Christ Himself. If they find that offensive, they are believing a lie. You are believing a lie as well to think that you should only share things that aren't offensive. Jesus never backed away from sharing all God wanted Him to share. He never made that more clear than in John 6:32-71. He never toned it down to keep followers. He even turned to His 12 and asked if they wanted to leave, too. Then followed their weak decline "where else would we go?" with "Did I not call you the 12, and one of you is a devil." He clearly didn't follow today's church growth strategies. So was Jesus wrong or are today's churches?

I am not telling people out in the world that I am a saint.

You seem to have the idea that making Jesus attractive is some sort of sellout. That we should be offensive on purpose. Is that what you are saying?

 

[Saint Steven]

So, consider the same question you ask Dave G. If you introduce yourself to people in the world as Saint Stephen, don't you think that has a negative impact on your discussion?

I don't introduce myself to people in the world as Saint Steven. You dodged my question.

 

[Karola]

That's good. Thanks. Are you familiar with this scripture?

Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

I have so much of romans underlined in my bible, that verse included

 

[Karola]

Do you find that people are excited to hear about the Lord when you tell them you are born again? Or does that throw a cold wet blanket on the discussion?

I'm sure if you told them they must obey the letter the bible says kills or risk the fires of hell, that would end the discussion, they definitely wouldn't be excited about that!

 

[Francis Drake]

If you introduce yourself to people in the world as Saint Stephen, don't you think that has a negative impact on your discussion?

Just wondering, in introducing myself as Sir Francis Drake, do you think I inspire terror?
After all my name sake was known by Catholic Spain as El Draque, the dragon.

 

[JLB777]

Correction, "commit to obey", is more correct... You said so yourself...

And if you faith is not perfect, it is sin, or unbelief, and how many of us fall under the not perfect faith category? "All of us" except Christ, except God himself... Cause how many of us believe God or Christ on "everything"...? Answer: none...

This why many of you do not have a full knowledge of sin yet, cause if you did, you might see things more like us...

God Bless!

Faith is from God.

It is a noun.

Our part is to believe, which by definition means demonstrate that we believe by obeying the word of faith.


The born again Christian has been given a new nature, that is divine, and is empowered by the Holy Spirit for the purpose of expressing and walking in righteousness, holiness and love.


We now have the choice to live our lives according to the Spirit who dwells within us, or to live our lives according to the flesh that is embedded with sin, that desires to express its lustful cravings in disobedience to God.


Paul says it like this -

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Romans 8:12-14

For if you live according to the flesh you will die;

but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

​

JLB

 

[Erik Nelson]

Everything is as it should be. We have the Word of God. Martin Luther helped bring the world out of the dark ages (scripture wise)

we sure have the word of God according to you and Luther...

the Sadducees also rejected books of Scripture, maybe they were right after all?

Jesus and the apostles quoted from the LXX,

sola scriptura would be "the LXX alone"

Luther = sola scriptura acceptablus

only those scriptures acceptable, to Luther et al

Luther preferred Paul, he didn't like Saint Peter's Rome, he didn't like the epistle of James, and he didn't much like the revelation of John either

Galatians 2:9

thus, Luther resembles Marcion, who similarly tossed out books he didn't like

in fact, Luther not only subtracted from scripture, but also added to it, according to Wikipedia:

he was criticised for inserting the word "alone" after "faith" in Romans 3:28

as of this moment, the logical truth is as obvious as it will ever have been in human history, from here on out everyone will just forget more and more history

Luther took God's word into his own hands...

and "revised and updated" it

claiming the result as God's

Matthew 12:32 ?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Yes that would definitely be one of His Commandments.

However, the word believe means trust and commit to obey.


His Commandment is to obey the Son Jesus Christ who is the Mediator of the New Covenant.

His teaching is what we are to obey.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


Believe means obey.


He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36 ASV



JLB

The point is what John means.

 

[JLB777]

The point is what John means.

I have plainly shown what John means through his writings in the Bible.


Here is the biblical text book definition of the love of God.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


Loving God by loving His children.


If we steal, murder, covet, commit adultery against our neighbor, is that loving our neighbor?

Be honest.


The way we love God, is by loving our neighbor.



If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21


Our course just because we keep His commandments doesn’t make us righteous, however we know for sure that if we don’t we are unrighteous.


Example: just because I don’t steal from my neighbor who is poor, doesn’t necessarily mean I’m righteous, if I don’t give him food if he is hungry.




JLB

 

[ViaCrucis]

God's 10 commandments are the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. It is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ that we might be FORGIVEN by faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25.

If you have no LAW you have no KNOWLEDGE of what sin is.
If you have no KNOWLEDGE of what sin is you have no need of a Saviour
If you have no need of a Saviour you have no salvation.
If you have no salvation you are lost because your still in your sins.

Then the scripture is fulfilled...

ROMANS 2:12-13
[12], For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[13], For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 commandments. If we KNOWINGLY break it just like any of the other 10 Commandments we commit sin because sin is the transgression of God's LAW *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4.

Where is the scripture that says God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

God's true people according to God's WORD keep ALL THE COMMANDMENTS of GOD. (1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; REVELATION 12:17; 14:12; 22:14.

It's noteworthy that you insert "God's 10 commandments" into texts which simply refer to the Law.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

These things can equally be done by unbelievers, as they often are, and are no bench mark of what the church is.
When Jesus walked his 3year ministry, there were many places where the "word" was preached, (Jesus even taking his turn), and where the appropriate sacraments were administered

every Sabbath​

Jesus made it clear that many of them were simply serving their father the devil.

Seeing as Christ Himself instituted the Sacraments and the preaching of the Gospel, I'm not sure how you are able to figure that non-Christians were or are doing these things.

I very much doubt that if I were to walk into a mosque or Buddhist temple I'm going to find the preaching of the Gospel or the Lord's Supper being celebrated.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[1stcenturylady]

I have plainly shown what John means through his writings in the Bible.


Here is the biblical text book definition of the love of God.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


Loving God by loving His children.


If we steal, murder, covet, commit adultery against our neighbor, is that loving our neighbor?

Be honest.


The way we love God, is by loving our neighbor.



If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.
1 John 4:20-21


Our course just because we keep His commandments doesn’t make us righteous, however we know for sure that if we don’t we are unrighteous.


Example: just because I don’t steal from my neighbor who is poor, doesn’t necessarily mean I’m righteous, if I don’t give him food if he is hungry.




JLB

Loving your neighbor covers those AND MORE. The "and more" is why the 10C are obsolete and don't quite "cut it" anymore. In the old covenant you couldn't murder, but you could still hate and no one knew. In the New you can't hate which never gets to murder. Even the Pharisees kept the 10C, but Jesus said our righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees.

The 10C are the bottom line commandments, of which there was no sacrifice in the Old Testament.

 

[1stcenturylady]

It's noteworthy that you insert "God's 10 commandments" into texts which simply refer to the Law.

-CryptoLutheran

In those verses the 10C were part of the law being referred to, so don't understand your objection.

 

[ViaCrucis]

In those verses the 10C were part of the law being referred to, so don't understand your objection.

Because the poster in question has an agenda in which only the Decalogue are to be regarded as God's commandments, for the purpose of arguing that their particular sect--the Seventh Day Adventists--are God's true Church; as only those who observe the Decalogue, especially the keeping of the Sabbath, are truly abiding in the truth of God. I'm simply pointing out that they are inserting their own sectarian doctrine into the text.

Yes, the Decalogue is part of the Torah, but it's not the only part of God's Torah. And not only that, the Torah isn't the only Law God has.

Christ commands "Do not resist an evil person, if someone strikes you on the one cheek, turn and offer the other as well." That's not in the 10 Commandments, it's not in the Torah at all. But it is a commandment, it is God's Law.

For Lutherans the idea of Law means simply this: All which God has commanded is Law. So when we read that no one is justified under the Law, yes it means that no one is justified by observing the 613 mitzvot of the Torah--but it is also part of Paul's repeated refrain throughout his writings that no one is righteous by works, by effort, there is no earning a place with God by trying to be holy enough, righteous enough, good enough since all have fallen short, all sin, and thus our justification, our holiness, our place with God comes from outside of ourselves, as pure gift--as grace--by what God Himself has done for us in Jesus Christ, freely justifying us, and appropriating to us all the things of Christ as pure, unmerited gift.

The Law brings knowledge of sin because the Law condemns sin; so that when I hear the commandment my conscience is pricked as I find myself a sinner under the Law. And so the Law brings death. And no one can be justified by the Law, no one can be holy under the Law; because before the Law all stand condemned as sinners, dead in their trespasses. Both the Jew and the Gentile.

-CryptoLutheran