Evangelicals Plus Tongues

[ac28]

The word "unknown", as in the phrase "unknown tongues", is in italics because it wasn't in the original text. It was added by the translators, for some strange purpose of their own - it certainly isn't needed and it only gives the jibberish talker ammunition that he shouldn't have. Therefore, in reality, the word "tongues" stands alone in those verses. "Tongues" means languages and, if "tongues" aren't a recognizable language, they are fake. The word "unknown", when it precedes "tongues", should be eliminated from everyone's vocabulary.

I believe that, in very rare circumstances, a person has been given a temporary ability to speak in a real language that he or she didn't know. But, it will always be a real language.

About 80-85% of the 60+ Bibles I have on E-Sword have eliminated the word "unknown" in their text.

Experience is a great enemy of truth.

 

[Si_monfaith]

I'm not.
What you're saying makes no sense; it's like you're denying that we exist as humans made in the image of God, with a purpose, with work to do and with gifts to do that work.

Who is it who is writing your posts? You, or God?

Learn to say,"not I but grace does works".

 

[jiminpa]

The word "unknown", as in the phrase "unknown tongues", is in italics because it wasn't in the original text. It was added by the translators, for some strange purpose of their own - it certainly isn't needed and it only gives the jibberish talker ammunition that he shouldn't have. Therefore, in reality, the word "tongues" stands alone in those verses. "Tongues" means languages and, if "tongues" aren't a recognizable language, they are fake. The word "unknown", when it precedes "tongues", should be eliminated from everyone's vocabulary.

I believe that, in very rare circumstances, a person has been given a temporary ability to speak in a real language that he or she didn't know. But, it will always be a real language.

About 80-85% of the 60+ Bibles I have on E-Sword have eliminated the word "unknown" in their text.

Experience is a great enemy of truth.

Wrong thread, but I will say something here. You can't support your assumption that tongues are known languages with scripture, and, in fact, Paul says that tongues speak to God and no man understands them, which is why he goes on to say they are out of order in the assembly.

 

[Strong in Him]

Learn to say,"not I but grace does works".

Strange that you won't answer my questions. Is it because you have no answer?

Ephesians 2:10 God created who for good works; us, or his grace?
Genesis 2; who was given work to do in the Garden of Eden; Adam, or God's grace?
In the parable of the talents, why was the servant condemned? Answer, because he had been given something by his master but had not made use of it/put it to work/increased what he had been given.

If we have given our lives to God and been filled with his Spirit, His Spirit works in and through us, giving us strength, gifts and every spiritual blessing in Christ; absolutely. We serve him in his strength and with the gifts he gives - but it is still we, human beings who receive those gifts and physically do that work with our human hands.
Like I said, who is sitting at your computer writing your posts? A robot, God himself, or you, a human being?

God works and speaks through people; always has done.
The bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit, God breathed - but it was still human hands that held the quills, wrote the Greek, researched the history, and so on.
It was human hands - a whole army of human hands - that built the temples, taught in the synagogues, made all the prayer robes, food for the Passover, circumcised the boys, offered sacrifices and so on.

God created us to do good works. We can't be saved by them, but we can still do/refrain from doing, them. If we just sat back, did nothing and let God do it all, there would be no need for any of us to give account of what they had done, nor for our work to be destroyed by fire, 1 Corinthians 3:12-15. God's grace cannot be destroyed by fire.

 

[Spirit of Pentecost]

I have more confidence in the holiness of a woman wearing jeans and loving God than I do in all of you gossips in your church clucking about her and making her feel unwelcome for not wearing as fine clothing as you are. Who is it violating the scripture?

You've missed my point entirely. We don't treat anyone differently for not seeing the necessity of such matters of outward representations of holiness, separation, and modesty.

Some churches certainly may do that --- I've been to some myself --- but I assure you mine does not.

 

[jiminpa]

That's the way it was until Ac 28:25-27, when Israel was set aside and everything associated with Israel, like the Gifts of the spirit. It's all gone now, no matter what anyone thinks. Paul says that he would rather that you prophesied, since tongues benefited yourself, but prophecy benefited the assembly. So, how much REAL prophesy do you see today - like none? Also, it says that not everyone could speak in tongues, so why is that today's proof that a person has received the HS? Why was Paul able to heal a bunch of people in Ac 28, the very end of Acts, right before Israel ceased to exist as a nation, in God's eyes, but was unable to heal after that - 1Tim 5:23, Phil 2:26-27. Where are the interpreters when someone is Babel-ing in tongues.

It's all fake. Not intentional fake, but fake none the less. It's more like a social fake, keeping-up-with-the-Jones'-fake. If you can't speak in fake blathering tongues or can't be slayed in the spirit, you are definitely a second class citizen in those churches.

To please a favorite aunt, I stupidly attended a variety of mostly large charismatic churches with her for about 2 years, in Houston, the fake Charismatic capitol of the world. The best thing was the one hour pre-sermon music session, where long, droning, hypnotic songs were sung that repeated the same words over and over - "Jesus, I love Jesus" or "Hallelujah" were the 2 biggies. Everyone got a "buzz". It's that every-Sunday buzz that keeps people in those churches, I'm convinced. It's the same exact "buzz" I got in the 70s when doing the very evil Transcendental Meditation. Pentecostal/Charismatic churches are dangerous and are are based on falsehoods.

Personal experience is NOT proof of ANYTHING. Only in your dreams does any part of your performance have ANY SIMILARITY to the real Gifts or the Spirit found if the scripture during Acts. It's a parody, and a poor one, at that.

Absolutely nothing you said is biblical.

 

[ac28]

Absolutely nothing you said is biblical.

Absolutely nothing you believe about the Gifts being for today is Biblical.

Everything I said in that first paragraph is Biblical. Everything I said after that is truthful.

 

[jiminpa]

Absolutely nothing you believe about the Gifts being for today is Biblical.

Everything I said in that first paragraph is Biblical. Everything I said after that is truthful.

Since everything I believe about the gifts I learned from the bible you are wrong at best. We can start with Mark 16, and 1 Cor 13.

 

[Strong in Him]

Absolutely nothing you believe about the Gifts being for today is Biblical.

Are you saying that the Holy Spirit does not give us gifts today?

If so; apart from anything else, this forum is for those who believe that all the Spiritual gifts are for today, - read the statement of purpose. So why are you debating in a forum which is all about something that you do not believe in?

 

[jiminpa]

Are you saying that the Holy Spirit does not give us gifts today?

If so; apart from anything else, this forum is for those who believe that all the Spiritual gifts are for today, - read the statement of purpose. So why are you debating in a forum which is all about something that you do not believe in?

Cessationists don't seem to be happy until no one believes the bible. They have to come on here, against the rules, and demand that we participate in their unbelief with them.

 

[ac28]

Are you saying that the Holy Spirit does not give us gifts today?

If so; apart from anything else, this forum is for those who believe that all the Spiritual gifts are for today, - read the statement of purpose. So why are you debating in a forum which is all about something that you do not believe in?

I see no tags on this thread.

I believe the Bible, rightly divided. If you believe the Bible says that anything in Acts, including the Gifts and the rapture, are directly TO and ABOUT anyone today, you don't rightly divide (correctly cut) God's Word of Truth. If you don't, you are not approved unto God and you need to feel ashamed, according to 2Tim 2:15.

Paul did a lot of healing in Acts 28:8-9. He lost his ability to heal after Acts - see 1Tim 5:23, Phil 2:26-27, 2Tim 4:20. WHY?

 

[Strong in Him]

I see no tags on this thread.

Read the "Statement of purpose" thread near the top of this forum, with a red tag.

"Spirit-Filled, Pentecostal and/or Charismatic believers can be from any denomination. They are those who believe that all the various spiritual gifts (or charisms) listed in the New Testament (including but not limited to the manifestations gifts found in I Corinthians 12:8-10) are active in the Church today and desirable in the life of the individual believer, for the edification of the Body of Christ. It is not required that the individual exercises/exhibits any specific spiritual gift(s)."

If you believe the Bible says that anything in Acts, including the Gifts and the rapture, are directly TO and ABOUT anyone today, you don't rightly divide (correctly cut) God's Word of Truth.

Among the gifts of the Spirit are, evangelist, Pastor, teacher, helper; gifts of administration and service.
These are most definitely still here and valid today.
I've heard people speaking in tongues and prophesying.

If you don't, you are not approved unto God

According to you.
God still calls people and equips them to serve as Pastors, evangelists and teachers. Some speak in tongues - many on this forum, in fact, would say that they have done so.

Paul did a lot of healing in Acts 28:8-9. He lost his ability to heal after Acts - see 1Tim 5:23, Phil 2:26-27, 2Tim 4:20. WHY?

How do you know he lost his ability to heal?
If he did, how do you know that it wasn't because God wanted him to do something else/have another gift, or maybe even that he was withdrawing the gift because Paul's life was coming to an end?
Sometimes God does give gifts only for a season or particular purpose. In the OT, people were given gifts of craftsmanship so that they could build the tabernacle. Did they still have them afterwards? Who knows?

 

[Strong in Him]

Cessationists don't seem to be happy until no one believes the bible. They have to come on here, against the rules, and demand that we participate in their unbelief with them.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Strange that you won't answer my questions. Is it because you have no answer?

Ephesians 2:10 God created who for good works; us, or his grace?
Genesis 2; who was given work to do in the Garden of Eden; Adam, or God's grace?
In the parable of the talents, why was the servant condemned? Answer, because he had been given something by his master but had not made use of it/put it to work/increased what he had been given.

If we have given our lives to God and been filled with his Spirit, His Spirit works in and through us, giving us strength, gifts and every spiritual blessing in Christ; absolutely. We serve him in his strength and with the gifts he gives - but it is still we, human beings who receive those gifts and physically do that work with our human hands.
Like I said, who is sitting at your computer writing your posts? A robot, God himself, or you, a human being?

God works and speaks through people; always has done.
The bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit, God breathed - but it was still human hands that held the quills, wrote the Greek, researched the history, and so on.
It was human hands - a whole army of human hands - that built the temples, taught in the synagogues, made all the prayer robes, food for the Passover, circumcised the boys, offered sacrifices and so on.

God created us to do good works. We can't be saved by them, but we can still do/refrain from doing, them. If we just sat back, did nothing and let God do it all, there would be no need for any of us to give account of what they had done, nor for our work to be destroyed by fire, 1 Corinthians 3:12-15. God's grace cannot be destroyed by fire.

You want to say, "Not grace but I do all works". You are disobeying God's word.

 

[Strong in Him]

You want to say, "Not grace but I do all works". You are disobeying God's word.

Maybe you'd like to answer the points I've made, instead of judging, and condemning, me for disobeying God.
Quite a strong accusation that; can you back it up?

 

[Si_monfaith]

Maybe you'd like to answer the points I've made, instead of judging, and condemning, me for disobeying God.
Quite a strong accusation that; can you back it up?

What more points you have to be answered?

I don't accuse. 1 Corinthians 15: 10 says so.

 

[Strong in Him]

What more points you have to be answered?

I don't accuse. 1 Corinthians 15: 10 says so.

In post #84 I asked you some questions.
You quoted my entire post, and dismissed it with the words "you're disobeying God."

1 Corinthians 15:10 does not contradict what I said or accuse me of anything. Elsewhere Paul talks about working hard, persevering and suffering persecution for the Gospel.
Nowhere does he say, "I sat back and let God do it all; God moved my legs so I walked to these places, God forced my mouth open so that I spoke." Paul was a learned man. In Athens he quoted Greek Philosophers and poets. No doubt God used that and inspired him - but who read and learned the works; him, or God?

 

[Si_monfaith]

In post #84 I asked you some questions.
You quoted my entire post, and dismissed it with the words "you're disobeying God."

1 Corinthians 15:10 does not contradict what I said or accuse me of anything. Elsewhere Paul talks about working hard, persevering and suffering persecution for the Gospel.
Nowhere does he say, "I sat back and let God do it all; God moved my legs so I walked to these places, God forced my mouth open so that I spoke." Paul was a learned man. In Athens he quoted Greek Philosophers and poets. No doubt God used that and inspired him - but who read and learned the works; him, or God?

Read 1 corinthians 15:10. Grace does everything. Grow up.

 

[Si_monfaith]

In post #84 I asked you some questions.
You quoted my entire post, and dismissed it with the words "you're disobeying God."

1 Corinthians 15:10 does not contradict what I said or accuse me of anything. Elsewhere Paul talks about working hard, persevering and suffering persecution for the Gospel.
Nowhere does he say, "I sat back and let God do it all; God moved my legs so I walked to these places, God forced my mouth open so that I spoke." Paul was a learned man. In Athens he quoted Greek Philosophers and poets. No doubt God used that and inspired him - but who read and learned the works; him, or God?

Just because someone is given a work does not mean they do it or can do it. Not them but God's grace does everything.

You had not asked anymore questions but giving a huge lecture in #84.

 

[Strong in Him]

Just because someone is given a work does not mean they do it or can do it. Not them but God's grace does everything.

This goes back to post #78.
I quoted Ephesians 2:10 which says that God created us to do good works. As far as I can see, you have never addressed that Scripture.
I then gave a number of examples or people who worked, served God, achieved etc etc - which Scripture tells us to do. Even before the fall, Adam had the job of tending the garden and naming the animals.Genesis 2:15, Genesis 2:19. Paul tells us that whatever work we are doing we should do for God's glory, Colossians 3:17, Colossians 3:23. And Jesus condemned a lazy servant for not using the talent that had been given to him.

Obviously we are not to claim that we do everything in our own strength, with our own talents, our own cleverness and so on. It is GOD who gives us all these things; to GOD be all glory.
But to imply that we cannot use the minds, hands, feet and so on that God has given us, is absurd. We are created in his image, by him to do good works.
You are ignoring all these things, and verses of Scripture, because of your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15:10.