What's a good response to the equating of catering same sex weddings with Jim Crow laws?

[dqhall]

The truth about the terrorist watch list is that there have been people by the same name being detained when they were not that person. A US General was detained from flying because the 'No Fly' is from the same database. We flew with a young man that we had known almost all of his life. He was detained and searched because he has the same name as someone on the list. My daughter who was standing next to him was asked if they were flying together, they detained and searched her, too. Her name was not on the list. This had happened to him before. He had gone through the process, paper work, to get his name removed. Of coarse that didn't happen so every time he flies he goes through the same thing.
The terrorist watch list is not accurate.

In 1999 I toured Israel and walked across the border from Eilat, Israel to Taba, Egypt where I hired an Egyptian guide to drive me around the Sinai for two days. I walked back into Israel and found my car where I left it near a hostel. Eventually I returned to the airport. I had an Egypt visa in my passport. I was taken aside and interrogated at length. I was being profiled because I had been in Egypt. I was taken to the plane and was one of the last passengers to board. I was upgraded to first class on British Airways and had an extra wide seat with fine food and Johnny Walker scotch. Back then fuel was cheap and partly empty planes were flown across the Mediterranean. A young college age lady had also been detained for questioning by the Israeli airport security and arrived late to the plane. She sat near me in first class. I had never met her before. She was a marine biology student who had been diving the coral reefs in the Red Sea at Eilat. She was probably profiled for being near the Egyptian border.

I think many people have been in situations where someone thought they were suspicious. It is better to forgive these incidents.

I have worked with people from various different ethnic and religious backgrounds. People should not refuse to serve each other in commercial transactions.

 

[tulc]

Are you going to provide the Biblical passages which convince you the Holy Scriptures teach Jim Crow?

I don't believe Jim Crow laws are supported by Scripture but the link I provided was to a sermon by someone who did.

I did not ask for someone else's eisegesis.

No what you asked was:

Which Biblical passages would that be?

which is what the link with the sermon did, if you'd ask "do you, tulc, believe in the Jim Crow laws and what Scriptures do you use to support that belief." I would have said "why no, redleghunter I don't believe the Jim Crow laws were supported by Scripture." So you really can't complain that

I did not ask for someone else's eisegesis.

When I don't have one for that. But, the link I posted DID have that by someone who does believe that.
tulc(can't be held responsible for not answering the question others don't ask)

 

[redleghunter]

the distinctions don't change reality

Well the reality is mankind is fallen. To use Holy Writ to justify ones' bigotry or sins is the fault of the human and not the Writings.

 

[redleghunter]

There were plenty used to justify laws against interracial marriage. I get that you don't agree with them but that doesn't make them disappear.

If there were plenty you should be able to present which Scriptures were used and how they were used. Meaning you should be able to present the argument from their perspective if you are making a claim such was used to make an argument for Jim Crow. I'll wait.

 

[redleghunter]

When I don't have one for that. But, the link I posted DID have that by someone who does believe that.
tulc(can't be help responsible for not answering the question others don't ask)

I met a person in college who said he suffered from extreme intermittent stabbing pain in his back. He then said he was Julius Caesar in a previous life. Even though he was truly convinced of his prior life as the founding emperor of the Roman Empire I did not believe it for a second.

 

[Phil 1:21]

If there were plenty you should be able to present which Scriptures were used and how they were used. Meaning you should be able to present the argument from their perspective if you are making a claim such was used to make an argument for Jim Crow. I'll wait.

I'm waiting too.

 

[JIMINZ]

Racists do have a long history of falsely associating race with rape

.
Where did I mention race in my post?

 

[hedrick]

I would think the problem with this logic is that a same sex marriage is a physical act. It would be possible to sell a cake to a homosexual without having to write a message the cake decorator disagrees with. It would be similar to refusing to write 'KKK' on a cake or to print out shirts with a message the business disagrees with.

It's not whether or not a business is required to give service to homosexuals, but rather whether or not a business is required to endorse an act or organization.

Does this all logically hold up?

No. To my knowledge writing "KKK" is different from making a wedding cake, in that it's an explicit message. The 1st amendment prohibits "compelled speech." Making a cake with "I support gay marriage" would be compelled speech. It's a bit harder to argue that making a cake that's exactly the same as one for a heterosexual wedding is compelled speech.

The argument is that use of one's creativity to support a gay wedding shouldn't be compelled, even though there's likely no difference in the product. That argument hasn't been tested yet. The Supreme Court ducked the issue. It's hard to predict what the result will be if it is finally tested, particularly with a change in the court. My reading is that the argument will probably fail.

Note however that had Phillips not sent them away, he might have ended up with a defensible reason. He wouldn't even talk to them, so there was no discussion of the kind of cake. Wedding cakes often have a bride and groom on top. If the couple had asked for a similar statue with two men, I think there would be a better argument that such a statue is symbolic speech, and thus he could reject it.

 

[SilverBear]

Well the reality is mankind is fallen. To use Holy Writ to justify ones' bigotry or sins is the fault of the human and not the Writings.

and that sums up how i feel about you and your use of scripture - the problem isn't in the word but in the humans how go around interpreting it. You disagree with how generations interpreted the bible in regards to race and discrimination. And I and countless others disagree with your interpretations.

 

[SilverBear]

If there were plenty you should be able to present which Scriptures were used and how they were used. Meaning you should be able to present the argument from their perspective if you are making a claim such was used to make an argument for Jim Crow. I'll wait.

Why would my ability to convincingly summarize something i don't believe in matter at all?

I'm sure you could rip apart the position of racists but that won't change the fact that the treatment of interracial couples is comparable to the treatment of same gendered couples

 

[SilverBear]

.
Where did I mention race in my post?

Are you saying it's somehow wrong to associate a minority with a sexual crime?

 

[redleghunter]

and that sums up how i feel about you and your use of scripture - the problem isn't in the word but in the humans how go around interpreting it. You disagree with how generations interpreted the bible in regards to race and discrimination. And I and countless others disagree with your interpretations.

My use of Scripture? Where did that come from?

Care to elaborate?

 

[redleghunter]

I'm sure you could rip apart the position of racists but that won't change the fact that the treatment of interracial couples is comparable to the treatment of same gendered couples

It's not comparable with regards to God's design for marriage. Interracial marriage is within God's design as long as it's one man and one woman.

Same gendered couples is outside God's design. So is polygamy.

Matthew 19: NASB
3Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6“So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” 7They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?” 8He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. 9“And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”


Jesus is quoting from Genesis 2:24

 

[SilverBear]

It's not comparable with regards to God's design for marriage.

Neither is non-christian marriage. Does that make discrimination based on religion OK?

Same gendered couples is outside God's design. So is polygamy.

God seemed to have made a lot of rules for something so outside of his design.

 

[JIMINZ]

Are you saying it's somehow wrong to associate a minority with a sexual crime?

.
I'm sorry, it was not my intention to besmirch the character of the Pedophiles, and Rapists.

Because like I said, I never mentioned Race, and as far as the Homosexual Community is concerned, I sincerely hope they do stay a minority in this Country.

But to be perfectly honest, I do not and have never looked at the Homosexual Community as a minority, I have always looked at them as an Immoral bunch of Perverts., who openly flaunt their depravity.

Rom. 1:32
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[redleghunter]

Neither is non-christian marriage. Does that make discrimination based on religion OK?

How so? If a Hindu man marries a Muslim woman how is that out of the Genesis 2:24 design?

Last I checked neither Adam nor Eve were Hebrew or Christian.

God seemed to have made a lot of rules for something so outside of his design.

YHWH had to make many rules for fallen man within the Mosaic covenant. Murder was not in His design but had to make rules on how to handle such cases.

 

[SilverBear]

.
I'm sorry, it was not my intention to besmirch the character of the Pedophiles, and Rapists.

just gays

Because like I said, I never mentioned Race, and as far as the Homosexual Community is concerned, I sincerely hope they do stay a minority in this Country.

if they were the majority are you afraid they would treat you like you treat them?

But to be perfectly honest, I do not and have never looked at the Homosexual Community as a minority, I have always looked at them as an Immoral bunch of Perverts., who openly flaunt their depravity.

it really doesn't matter how you view a minority - They are still a minority

 

[JIMINZ]

just gays

if they were the majority are you afraid they would treat you like you treat them?

it really doesn't matter how you view a minority - They are still a minority

.
You know what , you just want to argue, so were done.

Have a good day ....bye.

 

[SilverBear]

How so? If a Hindu man marries a Muslim woman how is that out of the Genesis 2:24 design?

is being a Hindu part of God's design?

YHWH had to make many rules for fallen man within the Mosaic covenant. Murder was not in His design but had to make rules on how to handle such cases.

he also forbid murder...except for gays its OK to murder them.
but not one rule against have more than one wife.

 

[SilverBear]

.
You know what , you just want to argue, so were done.

Have a good day ....bye.

argue about what? the fact that what evil things you say about a minority doesn't magically make them a minority?

or did the question about what you are afraid of hit a little to close to home?