Is There Such a Thing as a Biblical Feminist?

[Paidiske]

No, it's still wrong completely.

"In 2017, the median full-time salary for dentistry undergraduates was $94,600 for males, compared to $75,100 for females."

But Dentistry, encompasses multiple positions. Dental Hygienist. Dental surgeon. Dental Assistant. Dental Orthodontist.

For currently active Doctors of Dentistry, 82% were male.
The Gender Shift, the demographics of women in dentistry. What impact will it have? Part I

Meanwhile, Dental Hygienists, which pays much less, 98% were female.
Women's Bureau (WB) In-Demand Occupations (2010-2020)

See a problem? My own Dentist is a perfect example. The Doctor was a man, and all the assistants and hygienists were women. In fact, he retired and my new Dentist, the doctor is a man, and all of his staff are women.

So once again, the false claim of a gender bias, is all about ignoring the occupation choices of those involved. When you compare on equal terms, there is no pay gap. A Doctor of Dentistry, who is a women, will earn the same, for the same job.

Saying there is a pay gap in the "same field of study" is irrelevant, because there are different positions in that field, and personal choices of what position you are in that field, have dramatic effects on the pay.

A dental hygienist isn't a dentist, and they're not being compared as the same thing. See here: Education Doesn't Solve the Gender Pay Gap

Now you can disagree with me until the end of time. That's fine. That's your choice. My experience has been consistent, that for women, at some point you have to make a trade off between career or family. You think you don't. I think you do. It is the facts and the experience, that influence my view. I'm sure you have whatever you think supports your view.

You do have to make decisions about what your priorities are. I took two extra years to do my ministry training because my daughter was born in that time. For the first four years out of college I worked part time because that suited our family then. But I didn't have to give it up or not work at all.

What I'm objecting to is the idea that options don't exist which make it possible to have, at least, something of both worlds. It's not either/or. We don't have to browbeat working mothers as bad mothers.

I've thought about this a bit, and whether God the Trinity is male or not in Heaven, I believe it is a great error to change [gender-neutral] the masculin language with reference to God. We should consider the voice of God, He spoken with a male voice, He inspired the writers of Scripture to use the anthropomorpic language in the male sense, and we have thousands of years of history to support male anthropomorphism attributed to God. To change the original intended meaning just rings of revisionism, a modern twist through the lens of feminism...sorry but Father and Son are simply the correct transliteration from the original languages.

I'm not arguing for a change in language. I'm arguing that we need to be careful to realise that our language is always inadequate to describe God as God really is. We can't project human maleness onto God because we use the same language for a human father and our Father in heaven.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I'm not arguing for a change in language. I'm arguing that we need to be careful to realise that our language is always inadequate to describe God as God really is. We can't project human maleness onto God because we use the same language for a human father and our Father in heaven.

True it is not always adequate in the sense of the finite understanding the infinite, or in the sense of knowing God exhaustively. However, God is a God of language and would not have given or used language if it were inadequate to communicate everything He intended to reveal and communicate in Scripture. Our use of language should mirror the usage of Scripture. I do wonder if God in the fullness of His glory and being, is neither male nor female, I suppose it is a curiosity of being human and by nature knowing and relating in human relationships to beings with gender, but God is God and I do not think the "image of God" in human beings is male or female. But I should probably put a guard on diving further into curiosities which I know so little about, though tension and struggle in longing for understanding remains.

 

[mama2one]

Take for example someone that is adopted.
The person who is involved in your life and 'mothers' you... is the only real mother. If they are never there, and never mother you, then they are not really a mother, no matter what happened biologically.

stepping in as a mom to an adopted child
our child had or has birthparents (although, we do not know who they were and probably never will)

however, we do honor the birthparents
on Mother's day our child sends up a ballon with a message to her birth mom
just the other day, she referenced her birthmom because everyday she looks in the mirror getting ready for school, she sees her birthmom, there is no separating herself from her

she will never look like me and her birthmom cared enough to take care of herself while pregnant as our child is very healthy

we as adopted parents must speak favorably of the birthparents for to put them down would be putting our child down

we don't know what unfortunate circumstances led to our child being in an orphanage, perhaps the birthparents aren't even alive
but our child was born and and carried and nurtured for 9 months

our child is beautiful inside and out and came to us that way

 

[Archivist]

No. That statement is both immoral, and wrong, and not what Christianity is about.

No, her statement was absolutely correct.

 

[Archivist]

Regardless, the scriptures describe G-d using the male. Until G-d himself tells me that he can be described in the feminine, it is not my position as one 'reading' the scripture rather than 'writing' it, to determine what the "true meaning" is.

You want to claim it means something else, you have to prove that using the scripture. If you can't prove it using the scripture, then you are dangerously close to Revelations 22:18.

No Christian should ever risk that.

But the Hebrew word for Spirit is feminine. Because of that some Christians regard the Holy Spirit to be feminine.

That's all false. There is no gender pay gap. There is a work level pay gap. Women who have the exact same years of experience, exact same level of work ethic, have the exact same level of education and qualifications, they earn the same amount of money.

In fact, in many cases, women are earning more than men.
Breaking News, Analysis, Politics, Blogs, News Photos, Video, Tech Reviews - TIME.com

The problem with the supposed pay gap, is that women make choices to limit pay.

For example, you have a man and a woman, working a job for 5 years. But the woman takes off a year and a half, because she has a child. The man does not.

Who is going to get paid more? The man. Because he has 5 years experience after 5 years. The woman only worked 3.5 years.

Another example, we had 3 of our engineers at our company, travel to California to take certification training on one of our products. The woman engineer (we only had one), declined the offer to stay with her family.

The men are paid more. They are now certified in a new product. She is not.

Another example. Our company had a product that ended up having some massive failures on-site at a customer location.

We needed 3 people to go down and fix the products while on site. It was going to be a grueling 4 day non-stop all night long marathon.

Who went? The CEO, the lead in Sales, and the lead Engineer. 3 Guys. Who refused? The sales lady, and the lady in engineering. Because they didn't want to leave their families.

This is why some women are paid less... because they do less. How many times has the Sales lady, decided to take the day off because their child was sick, or want to come home early? Many times. How many times has the sales guy done this? Zero.

Being able to come in early, or stay late, is a value to the company, that companies compensate for. When women refuse to do this, that is not 'inequality' that is called proper compensation for labor.

If forcing men to be paid the same as women, even when they work and do twice a much, is what Feminism stands for, then it is not Biblical, and it is immoral.

So men are paid more because women stay home to care for their sick kids? Perhaps if the parents alternated staying home to care for their sick kids that wouldn’t be an issue. The problem is that it is still usually expected that a working mom will be the primary caregiver.

And yes, Statistics show that in many cases women still earn less then men in equal situations.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

In the UK, girls can join the Scouts, and, I think, cubs too.

I have never, ever seen a girl or woman wearing a t shirt which says "I've got my period; stay away."
They would have had to advertise it like that in Bible times because they believed it made the woman unclean, but not today.

Those poor unclean women got to spend a week every month with their besties (in sync) in a women's only tent away from any domestistity. Oh the shame
God, in His (female) wisdom provided for 7 of every 28 days freedom.

 

[Paidiske]

Women only sync when there are no men around (like in convents).

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Women only sync when there are no men around (like in convents).

Irregardless. The point remains.

 

[Strong in Him]

But the Hebrew word for Spirit is feminine. Because of that some Christians regard the Holy Spirit to be feminine.

In addition, several of the images in the Bible are feminine - being born again, nurtured. James says that God chose to give birth to us, James 1:18. In Isaiah, the Lord says that even if a mother were to forget the child she bore, I will not forget you.
I've got a book on the names of God which says that one of his names means "one that suckles", or something; I'll need to look it up.

 

[AlexDTX]

Sorry - the definitions of what? Is there a Biblical definition of feminism?

No, there is not. But some of our sisters are using the expression, so I am seeking their definition.

 

[AlexDTX]

It means if your wife messes up, (even if you do not know it) YOU are called on the carpet for it.

Excellent points, Dave. Thank you. I am adding that to my understanding of biblical patriarchy.

Abe could not even have been aware of her laughing, but he was held responsible, not her. If there is such a thing as patriarchy, THAT is what it looks like.

Again, excellent. I wish the women would understand this. Since God holds men accountable first, then we have a responsibility to keep our accountability clear. Very well said, Dave.

 

[AlexDTX]

So what if grandparents live with the "nuclear" family? Who's the master then?

The parents of the children since you say the grandparents live with the nuclear family. If the "nuclear family" are living with the grandparents, they are their house, thus the grandparents are the "master".

 

[AlexDTX]

Speaking of feminine rights from God, the greatest *right* for women is that Christian men are to love their wives as Christ loved the Church, and gave Himself for it. That is a very high expectation, and it could solve any feminist issues. At the same times wives are to be in subjection to their own husbands, as the Church is subject to Christ.

What Christians may not be hearing is that the Christian marriage is supposed to be a type of Christ and His Wife (the Church), and this was already presented in the creation of Eve and her marriage to Adam.

Thank you for that outstanding observation. I agree with you whole heartedly.

 

[AlexDTX]

I have to say, @AlexDTX, I know many women who would call themselves "feminists" and are not religious...and although I know the attitude you mean, none of them "hate men".

Of course, not all "hate" men, but there are many women's liberation leaders that demonstrate their hate for men in many ways. But, frankly, I did not start this thread to find all that is wrong with secular feminism, I am looking for what is right that Christian women can embrace, if any.

 

[AlexDTX]

Perhaps defining what a masculinist would help to define a feminist. A masculinist bows to the throne of masculinity instead of the throne of the risen Lord. A feminist would be someone who bows at the feet of feminine throne rather than God's throne. So either way to call oneself anything but a new creation in Christ for any believer is oxymoron.

Excellent observation, Cassia. Thank you for your input.

 

[AlexDTX]

I appreciate the (obvious) differences in men and women,
but God is Spirit and none of that bunk about raising children
or combat roles has any significance to God.

Look at the children of fatherless homes, or whose fathers did not know how to express love or time with their children. When those kids grow up, if they come to Christ, they have great difficulty in believing in the love of God the Father for them. I have seen it countless times. I think your point of view is based upon your own wishful thinking.

 

[Micah888]

Seeing God as male is an inappropriate anthropomorphism...

And this is where Bible-believing Christians must draw the line and reject Feminist nonsense. God is NOT the Great Pagan Mother Goddess to whom many Feminists have turned.

God the Father is masculine -- male (Spirit)
God the Son is masculine -- male (the Man Christ Jesus)
God the Holy Spirit is masculine -- male (Spirit)

This is not about anthropomorphisms but God's truth. If we were to "neuter" God, we would have to throw out our Bibles and come up with something humanistic. And this is another indication of the Great Apostasy which has entered into the churches of Christendom.

Note: All the angels are also male, not female as depicted in many paintings.

 

[Philip_B]

And this is where Bible-believing Christians must draw the line and reject Feminist nonsense. God is NOT the Great Pagan Mother Goddess to whom many Feminists have turned.

God the Father is masculine -- male (Spirit)
God the Son is masculine -- male (the Man Christ Jesus)
God the Holy Spirit is masculine -- male (Spirit)

This is not about anthropomorphisms but God's truth. If we were to "neuter" God, we would have to throw out our Bibles and come up with something humanistic. And this is another indication of the Great Apostasy which has entered into the churches of Christendom.

Note: All the angels are also male, not female as depicted in many paintings.

Article I
Of Faith in the Holy Trinity
There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body, parts, or passions; of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the Maker, and Preserver of all things both visible and invisible. And in unity of this Godhead there be three Persons, of one substance, power, and eternity; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.​

Discussing the gender of God is an outrageous waste of time. The Australian Comedian Dave Hughes was quite insightful when he declared on National Television 'Of course God is male, God is a boys name'. It is an absurd argument, and the proposition has no merit. Humankind, in a Patriarchal context has projected a view of society here as the 'obvious' reality of heaven.

Cranmer / Parker are absolutely correct at the outset of the Thirty Nine Articles There is but one living and true God, everlasting, without body, parts, or passions; of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness; the Maker, and Preserver of all things both visible and invisible.

God made humankind after the image and likeness of God. We must ensure that we do not repay the compliment.

This is not the great apostasy. Gregory of Nazianzus declared 'For that which He has not assumed He has not healed' (http://www.earlychurchtexts.com/public/gregoryofnaz_critique_of_apolliniarianism.htm). The point being Nazianzus is seeing Jesus is taking on humanity, not masculinity, not maleness, and yes I have no doubt that Gregory understood that Jesus was a man.

Cranmer, Parker, Nazianzus, are not talking feminist rubbish.

“In the beginning God created man in His own image, and man has been trying to repay the favor ever since.”

Voltaire​

​

Many of the attitudes of some posters in this thread leave me feeling deeply disappointed. I am not a liberal, I am not a feminist, and I find much of this deeply offensive.

 

[Archivist]

Of course, not all "hate" men, but there are many women's liberation leaders that demonstrate their hate for men in many ways. But, frankly, I did not start this thread to find all that is wrong with secular feminism, I am looking for what is right that Christian women can embrace, if any.

Of course given the number of women who are victims of domestic abuse it is probably safe to say that there are many men who hate women.

 

[SolomonVII]

Describing the private parts of God is a waste of time. Describing God as the Father goes to the very nature of what a patriarchy is all about.

Fatherhood is not based on the private parts of a parent. No child defines their own father by his private parts, so it is indeed a waste of time to reduce fatherhood and the patriarchy of God to a penis and testicles.

Fatherhood is a relationship that defines the patriarchy. To the extent that feminism has attempted to destroy that relationship as oppressive, to ridicule it as being all about the phallus, feminism is of the anti-Christ.
And as in the days of John when he first coined the term anti-christ, many of the Christians of his days, as is the case now, described themselves as followers of Christ.