Praying to Saints

[dreadnought]

I am 65 years old, but it was just a few days ago, on this forum, someone explained to me for the first time that there are people who pray to saints. Why don't these people pray to God instead?

 

[Albion]

They think that people who have already been admitted to heaven must have more pull with God, so they enlist them as go-betweens.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Have you ever asked a family member or friend from your ecclesial community to pray for you? If so, why? Why don't you pray to God instead?

My belief in the communion of the saints is based on taking Our Lord at His word when He said that God is the God of the living, not the dead. The "dead" in Heaven are more alive than we are. So at least with Catholics (I won't speak for anybody else), we don't believe that mortality is a barrier in asking other Christians to pray for us.

EDIT- As a guess, I'm thinking someone will eventually mention "necromancy". Knowing that my forewarning here in this post will ultimately be all for nothing, I still suggest that whoever is inclined to bring up necromancy should well understand the means, the nature and the purpose of necromancy. Things that are different are not the same. Understand what necromancy is before bringing it up.

 

[Albion]

It's not necromancy; but it's still not Biblical.

 

[dreadnought]

Have you ever asked a family member or friend from your ecclesial community to pray for you? If so, why? Why don't you pray to God instead?

My belief in the communion of the saints is based on taking Our Lord at His word when He said that God is the God of the living, not the dead. The "dead" in Heaven are more alive than we are. So at least with Catholics (I won't speak for anybody else), we don't believe that mortality is a barrier in asking other Christians to pray for us.

EDIT- As a guess, I'm thinking someone will eventually mention "necromancy". Knowing that my forewarning here in this post will ultimately be all for nothing, I still suggest that whoever is inclined to bring up necromancy should well understand the means, the nature and the purpose of necromancy. Things that are different are not the same. Understand what necromancy is before bringing it up.

I suspect people who pray to saints are well-intentioned, but I believe the whole point is to develop a personal relationship with the Lord, isn't it?

 

[thecolorsblend]

I suspect people who pray to saints are well-intentioned, but I believe the whole point is to develop a personal relationship with the Lord, isn't it?

It's not an either/or proposition. It's both and. And as doctrines go, this one has considerable historical pedigree. Hermas, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Cyprian of Carthage and others all affirmed the communion and/or intercession of the saints.

 

[Hieronymus]

We're supposed to pray to the Father, maybe or not in Jesus' Name.
Jesus is the only way to the Father.

 

[Albion]

It's not an either/or proposition. It's both and. And as doctrines go, this one has considerable historical pedigree. Hermas, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Cyprian of Carthage and others all affirmed the communion and/or intercession of the saints.

The issue is not the communion of saints. Nor is it about the saints praying for those of us still living in the flesh. It is about us praying to those who are believed to be saints.

 

[Tutorman]

Praying to the saints in heaven is the same thing we do here when we pray to someone on the forum because someone is sick or what not. Praying simply means to ask nothing more.

 

[Albion]

Praying to the saints in heaven is the same thing we do here when we pray to someone on the forum because someone is sick or what not. .

Quite obviously, it is not.

Your neighbor has not passed into the spirit world and is not considered to be an intermediary, in the way that the saints are thought to be, merely because he offers prayers like yourself.

 

[dreadnought]

It's not an either/or proposition. It's both and. And as doctrines go, this one has considerable historical pedigree. Hermas, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Cyprian of Carthage and others all affirmed the communion and/or intercession of the saints.

I don't think we should let history interfere with our personal relationships with the Lord, should we?

 

[dreadnought]

Praying to the saints in heaven is the same thing we do here when we pray to someone on the forum because someone is sick or what not. Praying simply means to ask nothing more.

I never pray to anyone but God.

 

[Albion]

I never pray to anyone but God.

Well, you remember that when the Apostles asked Christ how to pray, he did not say to pray to any humans or angels, but, rather, to "Our Father, who are in heaven...."

 

[thecolorsblend]

I don't think we should let history interfere with our personal relationships with the Lord, should we?

"Interfere"?

In any case, what is past is prologue. Early Christians believed in doctrines such as the intercession of the saints. Considering that some of them lived during the lifetimes of the apostles (and were taught by an apostle), I think it's worth asking where exactly did these doctrines came from? And if they're in error, why weren't they ever corrected? Indeed, why did it take over 1,500 years for real and meaningful objection to these doctrines to arise?

 

[Albion]

"Interfere"?

In any case, what is past is prologue. Early Christians believed in doctrines such as the intercession of the saints.

I am assuming that you didn't notice that those Christians did not recommend praying to the saints, but simply asserted that the saints pray for us; and that there is virtually no evidence of praying to the saints to intercede for us until about the 4th century. The practice was an innovation of post-Apostolic times.

 

[TuxAme]

Because intercession is a beautiful thing. Get as many people praying for you as possible! If those people are already in heaven, even better!

The misunderstanding about what this means comes from a misunderstanding about what it means to pray. You are essentially praying to someone when you ask them to pray for you because you're petitioning them.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Jesus is the only way to the Father.

Nobody has said otherwise.

 

[dreadnought]

"Interfere"?

In any case, what is past is prologue. Early Christians believed in doctrines such as the intercession of the saints. Considering that some of them lived during the lifetimes of the apostles (and were taught by an apostle), I think it's worth asking where exactly did these doctrines came from? And if they're in error, why weren't they ever corrected? Indeed, why did it take over 1,500 years for real and meaningful objection to these doctrines to arise?

Yes, interfere. We are supposed to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, whether they did that in the old days or not.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Yes, interfere. We are supposed to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, whether they did that in the old days or not.

I don't see how the intercession of the saints "interferes" with that. If anything, asking for the prayers of others is not only putting the Lord uppermost in our own minds but in the minds of others as well. On that basis, trying to go it alone seems like the worse option.

 

[TuxAme]

How could investigating Church history possibly "interfere with" our love for the Lord? Rather, it would be ignorance of Church history that would do so.