• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

proving evolution as just a "theory"

Status
Not open for further replies.

BradB

Newbie
Jan 14, 2013
491
124
✟37,216.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
No, since they made these translations BEFORE the "increased knowledge" of the last days which unlocks God's scientific Truth in Genesis.

So you are saying basically that God didn't give us the knowledge to even understand Genesis (which btw is the key to understanding the gospel which is meant for the whole world to understand) until these last days? So when Jesus told Peter in Matthew 16 that He would build His church upon the rock of the revelation (He is the Christ the Son of the living God) and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it...He must have been lying because He couldn't have built His church until these "last days" which means anything prior to today... the gates of hell has been prevailing against.
 
Upvote 0

BradB

Newbie
Jan 14, 2013
491
124
✟37,216.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Thisnis the science forum, not the scripture preaching forum.

Yes thank you. Unfortunately when speaking with theistic evolutionists the scripture is an important key to understanding the Genesis account of creation. He was basically wanting to know why RC Christians can have no problem with evolution and the point is that it is not about having a problem with it or not. I have no problem with evolution if that is how God says He did it. But it isn't how He said He did it and the evidence doesn't support it. So we end up running down various aspects of what it even means to be a Christian when talking about theistic evolution. Sorry, you can just ignore my posts if they bother you.
 
Upvote 0

Paul of Eugene OR

Finally Old Enough
Site Supporter
May 3, 2014
6,373
1,858
✟278,532.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Yes thank you. Unfortunately when speaking with theistic evolutionists the scripture is an important key to understanding the Genesis account of creation. He was basically wanting to know why RC Christians can have no problem with evolution and the point is that it is not about having a problem with it or not. I have no problem with evolution if that is how God says He did it. But it isn't how He said He did it and the evidence doesn't support it. So we end up running down various aspects of what it even means to be a Christian when talking about theistic evolution. Sorry, you can just ignore my posts if they bother you.

The evidence supports it. Since God made the world as it is, with evidence that supports evolution, God says He did it that way. We shall not ignore the direct Word of God, written in the stars, the rocks, and the genomes.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Astrophile
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
I see it as... real love will tell the truth in the hopes of saving, rather than remaining silent in the hopes of being liked.
Telling the truth is all very well, but you, maybe without meaning to, come across as quite hostile.

Jesus died to save as many of us as would have faith in His power to do it. That includes people whose cultural, liturgical and political views you disapprove of. But you don't own Christianity and while many of your ideas about how Christianity should be practiced may be fine for you, they are not necessarily normative, widespread or particulary historical.

It does raise the question of how Christianity survived for almost two millenia before some 19th century Protestant pop-up sect came along to set us straight.
 
Upvote 0

TLK Valentine

I've already read the books you want burned.
Apr 15, 2012
64,493
30,322
Behind the 8-ball, but ahead of the curve.
✟541,572.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
I see. You believe in the Magic of Mindless Nature to implant the highest intelligence on Earth, inside Ape like creatures.

No magic at all, although I can see how some might think it so.

Tell us HOW long periods of time and magical mutations combined, just ONCE, and can NEVER be repeated, to change these mindless creatures, into reasoning Humans. I predict you will run away screaming and waving your hands above your "evolved" brain. God Bless you

As always, you predict wrong. You seem to think that humans are the only creatures on Earth who are, or ever have been, capable of reason? The simple truth is that we aren't -- although we are apparently the best at it.

Being the smartest one in the room doesn't make you the only one in the room...
 
Upvote 0

AnotherAtheist

Gimmie dat ol' time physical evidence
Site Supporter
Aug 16, 2007
1,225
601
East Midlands
✟146,326.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
The evidence supports it. Since God made the world as it is, with evidence that supports evolution, God says He did it that way. We shall not ignore the direct Word of God, written in the stars, the rocks, and the genomes.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. (This is a serious comment, not sarcasm or anything indirect.)
 
Upvote 0

xianghua

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2017
5,215
555
44
tel aviv
✟119,055.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Single
Illogical premise; when single mutations can cause the alteration or insertion of multiple genes, what's the point of even asking that question?

i taking about new parts . for instance: a minimal sense of hearing will required at least few parts. so if we will need about 3 new parts to evolve such a system we will need at least 3 new mutations that code for those parts.

anato-e1486618243203.png

(image from hearing aids - basic anatomy of the ear auditory system (LMA))


I've already seen you say that, but if you think that the language barrier is such an issue, perhaps you shouldn't be trying to debate in a language you aren't adept enough in.

i just said it as a side note.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Paul of Eugene OR

Finally Old Enough
Site Supporter
May 3, 2014
6,373
1,858
✟278,532.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
i taking about new parts that suppose to evolve. for instance: a minimal sense of hearing will required at least few parts. so if we will need about 3 new parts to evolve such a system we will need at least 3 new mutations that code for those parts.

anato-e1486618243203.png

(image from hearing aids - basic anatomy of the ear auditory system (LMA))




i just said it as a side note.

Thanks for the interesting image of the ear anatomy. Here's a link showing how the mammalian ear developed from the earlier reptilian ear:

Evolution of mammalian auditory ossicles - Wikipedia

Its based on evidence from the fossil record.

Look at how the sense of balance is derived from a modification of the fluids used in the ear. This is an example of evolution coopting one organ to be used in another, new way. A designer, starting from scratch, would never think of combining hearing with balance in that way. Another piece of evidence for the evolutionary past for our flesh.
 
Upvote 0

xianghua

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2017
5,215
555
44
tel aviv
✟119,055.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Single
If you actually find a scientist who rejects evolution (which will be very hard to do) then you will find that scientist is a strong believer in a religious faith that denies evolution. That is a hint for the answer to your question.
i can say the same for those who believe in evolution.
 
Upvote 0

xianghua

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2017
5,215
555
44
tel aviv
✟119,055.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Single
We have shown you before how the "Zachelmie tracks" were most likely not made by anything walking on land.

lets say that this is an authentic for the sake of the argument. as you can see: even in this case they dont claim that evolution is false. they just claim for convergent evolution or missing fossils. so as i ask: if fossil in the correct order is evidence for evolution, why fossils in the wrong order should not be evidence against it?


Does the chart I gave you of human evolution accurately reflect the progression of life towards humans? We don't know what you think.

.

in the ape to human case i will agree that this isnt evidence for evolution since they are clearly different kinds under the creation model.
 
Upvote 0

xianghua

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2017
5,215
555
44
tel aviv
✟119,055.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Single
Thanks for the interesting image of the ear anatomy. Here's a link showing how the mammalian ear developed from the earlier reptilian ear:

not realy. both kinds of ears need at least 3 parts for their minimal function: a part that can detect sound wave. a part that can transmit a signal to the brain and a part in the brain that can detect the signal and process it. so evolution cant explain it.
 
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
not realy. both kinds of ears need at least 3 parts for their minimal function: a part that can detect sound wave. a part that can transmit a signal to the brain and a part in the brain that can detect the signal and process it. so evolution cant explain it.
How many times are we going to have to explain the parallel evolution of related biological structures to you before you realize that you are going to need a better and more detailed argument than "It's impossible?"
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BradB

Newbie
Jan 14, 2013
491
124
✟37,216.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The evidence supports it. Since God made the world as it is, with evidence that supports evolution, God says He did it that way. We shall not ignore the direct Word of God, written in the stars, the rocks, and the genomes.

Creation theory

Biblical creation theory is the theory that the universe and life was formed as described in the first chapter of the book of Genesis in the Bible. It theorizes that upon comparing those claims in the Bible, which are feasibly testable with science, to current scientific observations, that the claims of the Bible and the observations will harmonize.

Claim 1. There is an external source of the universe (God) that possesses an infinite nature.
The Bible claims the universe and life are the result of an external source and that this source is infinite in nature. If this were true we predict to observe evidence that the universe is finite in nature having a beginning point. This is because an infinite universe would obviously not require an external source. Isaac Newton's 3rd law of motion states that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. And in the First law of thermodynamics, the law of conservation of energy, states that energy can be transformed or changed from one form to another, but cannot be created or destroyed. The Law of universal causation states that every event or phenomenon results from, or is the sequel of, some previous event or phenomenon, which being present, the other is certain to take place. Combining these basic laws brings us to the logical conclusion that if anything, including the universe itself, had a beginning it would require an external source.

According to the current scientific astronomical data, the universe had a beginning. Einstein wanted the universe to be constant, however when he did his calculations for the theory of “General Relativity” he found that according to his calculations the math demanded a beginning for time, space, and matter. The universe, according to his math, must be expanding. This was troubling because it meant that if the universe is expanding, at some point in the past it had to have had a beginning. Einstein had found that the universe was not constant. In 1913, an astronomer named Slipher was the first astronomer to suggest that the universe was in fact expanding in all directions. The proof came in 1929 when famous astronomer Edwin Hubble presented actual conclusive empirical evidence that the universe is expanding. He physically observed distant galaxies moving away at a speed that is directly proportional to their distances from earth. This meant the universe did in fact have a beginning.
The Expanding Universe
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3077857/#.TuRlh3L6tCI
Again the logical conclusion from a universe that had a beginning is that it had to have a source. There are several alternate explanations posed to try and get around this but here are the two most popular, none of which have any supportive observable evidence. Some still believe that the universe is in fact constant but continuously oscillating in and out in cycles. However this could not work according to our current understanding of observational laws as it would have long since died a heat death. Another possibility posed is that it could have been formed by a quantum fluctuation since it has been observed that virtual particles come in and out of existence seemingly from nothing. However there are three problems with this possibility that make it very unlikely. First we have only made these observations in a universe were conditions already exist for a quantum fluctuation to occur. We do not know that a quantum fluctuation can occur where these conditions do not exist. Some fix this by saying the universe could have always existed as a zero point of energy. The problem is that if the universe were ever a zero point of energy or smaller, there is no longer any space for particle pair productions or virtual particles and thus no space for a quantum fluctuation to occur. Secondly the Heisenberg uncertainty principle says in part that the more energy you have in a fluctuation the shorter lived the duration of that fluctuation. That means if any fluctuation occurred that had the potential energy of our entire universe it would instantaneously vanish. Thirdly the law of conservation of energy says that the quantum fluctuations we are observing cannot be the creation of completely new particles because no new energy can be created or destroyed. It can only be converted. Without any other scientific basis we must conclude they are caused by some yet unexplained transfer of energy not the creation of completely new particles. The only viable conclusion that we have based on current scientific observations is that the universe began from some other greater source of energy. Logically this source would also be required to be infinite in nature. This is because if ever there were a time when nothing existed, then nothing would still exist. So there must be at least one source that has existed without a beginning. Things that exist without a beginning are assigned the term "infinite."

Claim 2. The infinite source of the universe possesses intelligence.
The Bible claims that the external source of the universe and life (God) is intelligent in nature. If this is true we predict we would observe two primary features found in the things said to have been created. First we predict we would observe common similar features in structure and traits among various living things since they were all designed to co-exist and function in many similar ways within this same biosphere by the one creator. The scientific literature is full of examples of these types of similarities among various forms of life. Second we predict we would observe characteristics of design or intent that have only been observed coming from sources of intelligence rather than unguided processes. Things with design or intent can be detected by looking for the characteristic of specificity. Specificity is anything in which an observer can see was formed for a specific reason. It is a distinguishing quality or attribute explicitly set forth; as Intended for, applying to, or acting on a particular thing: Something particularly fitted to a use or purpose. Any event or object which exhibits a pattern that matches a foreknown pattern that was completely interdependent of the first. In other words, for an observer to test for specificity he must be able to recognize it from a completely independent experience. This can either be a pattern that produces a recognition response or a functional response. One example would be the way a key's teeth are the exact sizes required to set the tumbles in an independent lock to the unlocked position.

Archaeologists infer something was formed by human intelligence in artifacts by looking for specific design clues in which they classify by: 1. raw material (stone, metal, glass, ceramic, etc.), 2. morphology (form, including size, shape, design, functional aspects etc.), and 3. style (more elusive—including design, decoration, etc.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artifact_(archaeology) Marine biologists detect intelligence in dolphin communications by matching specific sound patterns to certain behaviors which imply the existence of an actual intelligent language, by observing a dolphin's abilities to reason, problem solve, and communicate. There is strong evidence to suggest that some specific whistles, named signature whistles, are used by dolphins to identify and/or call each other; dolphins have been observed emitting both other specimens' signature whistles, and their own. Cetacean intelligence - Wikipedia SETI astronomers infer intelligence by looking for specific narrow bandwidth radio signals or highly compressed light bursts. The SETI scientists use radio telescopes to listen for narrow-bandwidth radio signals from space. Such signals are not known to occur naturally, so a detection would provide evidence of extraterrestrial technology. It would imply it had an intelligent source.
About SETI@home
.
So by these examples we see how scientists have already been using specificity to try and detect intelligence. The same approach can be used to see if the source of the universe possesses intelligence. When examining the properties, parameters, and arrangement of our universe, solar system, and planet, all working together in unison as a whole, the picture comes together and we realize we are peering into the workings of a highly specified machine. Parameters that all have to exist together in just the right way, at the exact same time, and in the same place for life to exist here. Examples are our location in the galaxy between the spiral arms in a clear zone, our distance from the sun, our gas giants in the outer rim, the size of our sun, our axis in relation to the sun, our moon's size and distance, our atmosphere's mix of nitrogen and oxygen, our land to water mass ratio, plate tectonic activity, circulation of earth's liquid iron inner core, our magnetic field, our earth's size and rotation speed, literally hundreds of features that require these exact parameters and need to all be in place at the same time for life to exist. Even all the physical laws like electromagnetic force, excitation of nuclei, strength of gravity, mass of material, speed of light, temperature, and nuclear intensity are all fine tuned to the precise parameters needed for life. A prevailing view in physics today is that if the balance of these very technical concepts were slightly out of proportion, the elements (especially like carbon which is so necessary for life) could not exist.

Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super intellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question." Hoyle, F. 1982. The Universe: Past and Present Reflections. Annual Review of Astronomy and Astrophysics: 20:16.

George Ellis (British astrophysicist): "Amazing fine tuning occurs in the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological status of the word." Ellis, G.F.R. 1993. The Anthropic Principle: Laws and Environments. The Anthropic Principle, F. Bertola and U.Curi, ed. New York, Cambridge University Press, p. 30.

Paul Davies (British astrophysicist): "It is obvious even at a casual glance that the universe is remarkably ordered on all scales. Matter and energy are distributed neither uniformly nor haphazardly, but organized into coherent identifiable structures, occasionally of great complexity." Davies, P. 1988. The Cosmic Blueprint: New Discoveries in Nature's Creative Ability To Order the Universe. New York: Simon and Schuster, p.3.

Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): "I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something instead of nothing." Willford, J.N. March 12, 1991. Sizing up the Cosmos: An Astronomers Quest. New York Times, p. B9.

Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say 'supernatural') plan." Margenau, H and R.A. Varghese, ed. 1992. Cosmos, Bios, and Theos. La Salle, IL, Open Court, p. 83.
Examining the structure of DNA in all living things we find it contains a highly specified code which warps our most sophisticated computer software programs by comparison. DNA uses specified base code sequences and arrangements as the blue prints to build the correct cells. Almost all the scientific literature describes the DNA code of all organisms as highly specified.
Genetic code supports targeted insertion of two amino acids by one codon. - PubMed - NCBI
http://www.nature.com/nature/dna50/watsoncrick2.pdf

DNA codes for protein synthesis by first coding for RNA. First, the DNA code is transcribed to RNA code, which is still in the “language” of nitrogenous bases, except that adenine on the DNA pairs with uracil (in place of thymine) on the RNA. The RNA code is then translated to protein code, which is a different “language.” This process involves ribosomes and two kinds of RNA: mRNA and tRNA. The mRNA codes for the gene in question and is copied off the DNA, while tRNA matches a specific group of nucleotides with a specific amino acid. A “unit” of three nucleotides on the tRNA codes for one amino acid. Each of these “units” is called an anticodon. These match up with corresponding three-nucleotide sequences on the mRNA called codons, and in this manner the amino acids are organized into the correct sequence to build a protein. The ribosome works with the mRNA and tRNA to hook the amino acids together to form a protein. http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio104/dna.htm
It then is a reasonable conclusion drawn by the observable evidence that claims 1 and 2 do in fact harmonize with science. It is therefore not unreasonable to accept that there is an external infinite, and intelligent source of the universe and life based on two observations, that 1. our universe had a beginning and 2. its specified nature is clearly displayed throughout its structure, arrangement and inhabitants. The most common term in the English language assigned to such an entity is "God."

Claim 3. All life was formed as individual kinds by God.
The Bible claims that God formed each individual kind of creature separately and that He formed them so that they would only reproduce after their own kind. If this is true we would predict to find three things. First that all the major forms would show up suddenly in the fossil record looking much the way they do today with unremarkable differences. Secondly as stated earlier we predict that because they all have a common creator who designed them to live and function in many similar ways within the same biosphere, that there would be many similar traits among many of the different forms. Thirdly we predict that we would observe the characteristics of specificity.

The most prevalent competing theory of course is that all life formed naturally through two main unguided processes working together, the process of random mutations causing small changes in the genome which are favored by environmental conditions and that over time these small changes added up to create very large changes aka evolution. A problem often arises with the use of the term evolution because it often is also used just to refer only to the small changes that occur in a population over time due to environmental selection. All knowledgeable Creationists fully accept this kind of evolution. What they reject however is what is typically tacked on to that definition later by some scientists and over popularized by the media. We do actually observe small changes in populations of organisms. And we do observe this happen all the time. There is nothing about this observation that conflicts with the claims of Genesis 1. However what we never observe is that given vast amounts of time these small changes will stack up to create vast changes. This idea stems from a misunderstanding of what causes these small changes to begin with. All changes of multi celled life observed so far in the evidence presented in biological studies show these changes have been the result of natural selection "selecting" already existing genes in the gene pool. All organisms already posses an enormous number of copies of the same genes in the gene pool from with which natural selection can select. These copies are called alleles and are what cause things like different colored hair, eyes, flower pedals, and height. For example if you calculated the total number of varieties available in the 23 chromosomes of the human male population and multiplied that by the total number of varieties available in the 23 chromosomes of the human female population, you wind up with a combined total of varieties available that is well in the trillions from which natural selection can choose.

Obviously then in order to prove that the theory of evolution could have happened with biological evidence we would need to see at least one example of this process happen. What exactly we would need to see is an example of a study conducted in a controlled environment where a random mutation added new gaining type information to the genome that was beneficial to the organisms survival. This needs to be conducted under controlled conditions so we can insure that the changes did not occur as a result of an expression of an already existing allele as mentioned earlier. Some want to use single celled organisms as examples of this occurring in the lab, but the problem is that single celled organisms are not like most other types of living organisms. They don't have the same abilities of just being able to migrate to a new location when food is scarce or environmental conditions become hostile. There is good observational evidence to suggest that they were designed with very unique ways to cope. For example the type of yeast used in a Dr. Ratcliff's experiment is known to already possess the genetic information to perform a dimorphic switch when the environment becomes hostile, such as when it is nitrogen starved, and to become a multi cellular filament.

Single celled organisms also often carry with them another kind of DNA called plasmids which almost never occur in multi celled organisms. For example a study conducted on nylon waste metabolizing bacteria. Since nylon is a man made substance which never existed in nature it would not have been something that bacteria would have ever encountered prior. However bacteria was discovered to have developed the ability to metabolize the waste being dumped into the river by a nylon manufacturing plant. The changes that occurred in Nylonase (nylon metabolizing bacteria) took place in their plasmid DNA not the chromosomal DNA. External forces such as exposure to poison, starvation or high temperature have been observed in studies to activate transposases on the plasmids, meaning the change occurred in "response" to the organisms need rather than a purely random mutation. Evolution theory however is adamant that the mechanisms which cause evolution to occur are completely random mutations accompanied by natural selection. This therefore implies design not descent. Likewise in Lenski's E coli experiments, the changes are due to the activation of a latent function or a beneficial (but not information-gaining) mutation that allows citrate processing. In order to truly be sure that the kind of evolution that is necessary for Universal Common Ancestry type of progression has occurred, we would need to see a positive mutation in the chromosomal DNA of a "multi" celled organism, that demonstrates information gaining to the DNA. To date, no such observations have ever been reported.

Other observations that some believe supports evolution theory are the similarities found between the DNA of different forms of organisms. But as mentioned earlier similarity is also predicted to be observed if all life has a common creator. Likewise evolution is thought to be supported by the similarities between other traits and bone structures of different forms observed in both the living and the fossil record. But if similar features are predicted by both evolutionists and creationists alike then the fact that an organism has similar features does not support either case. Or you could say it actually supports both. In order to say that evolution theory is supported over creation by the fossils we would have to observe at least one finely graduated chain between any two major forms. However no such chain has ever been found. All proposed fossil chains still leave considerable doubt by the huge gaps between the major forms. This problem is admitted by most paleontologists.
"The history of most fossil species includes two features Particularly inconsistent with gradualism: first is stasis. Most species exhibit no directional changes during their tenure on earth. They appear in the fossil record looking much the same as when they disappear; Morphological Change is limited and directionless. Second is Sudden appearance. In any local area a species does not arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors. But rather appears all at once and fully formed." -Harvard paleontologist Stephan J. Gould. (Evolutions Erratic Pace, National History, 1977 13-14)
Here Gould is saying that the actual evidence is that rather than gradually arising in a steady transformation, most forms appear all at once and fully formed. This is exactly what we would expect to find had life been formed in the way it is described in the book of Genesis. We do observe similar features between the various forms, and we also observe that the structures and DNA of life displays a high degree of specificity. All these are predictions of creation theory.
Conclusion: The fact that our universe had a beginning, that we observe highly specified features in its arrangement, that all the major forms appear suddenly and full formed in the fossils, and that life displays highly specified characteristics in its makeup, all harmonizes perfectly with the description found in Genesis1. It is therefore not unreasonable at all or unscientific to accept that the God of the Bible is responsible for the creation of the universe and life.
 
Upvote 0

doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2003
9,969
2,521
Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟532,270.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
i taking about new parts . for instance: a minimal sense of hearing will required at least few parts. so if we will need about 3 new parts to evolve such a system we will need at least 3 new mutations that code for those parts.

anato-e1486618243203.png

(image from hearing aids - basic anatomy of the ear auditory system (LMA))




i just said it as a side note.
Odd that you would post a picture of the mammal ear, since we have hundreds of fossils showing the transition. See Evolution of the mammalian middle ear
 
Upvote 0

doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2003
9,969
2,521
Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟532,270.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Upvote 0

doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2003
9,969
2,521
Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟532,270.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
The Bible claims that God formed each individual kind of creature separately and that He formed them so that they would only reproduce after their own kind. If this is true we would predict to find three things. First that all the major forms would show up suddenly in the fossil record looking much the way they do today with unremarkable differences.
Ah, so I can imagine you were quite disappointed when you found this:

Tiktaalikandco.jpg


And then, when you saw your prediction had failed, did you change your mind?
 
Upvote 0

doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2003
9,969
2,521
Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟532,270.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
How many times are we going to have to explain the parallel evolution of related biological structures to you before you realize that you are going to need a better and more detailed argument than "It's impossible?"
Xinghua might some day stop saying, "That's impossible"? That's impossible.
 
Upvote 0

AnotherAtheist

Gimmie dat ol' time physical evidence
Site Supporter
Aug 16, 2007
1,225
601
East Midlands
✟146,326.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
not realy. both kinds of ears need at least 3 parts for their minimal function: a part that can detect sound wave. a part that can transmit a signal to the brain and a part in the brain that can detect the signal and process it. so evolution cant explain it.

Hearing is a particular form of detecting vibration. Vibrations can be detected with much simpler things than anything we recognise as an 'ear'. E.g. like the hair cells in a fish's lateral line.

Like eyes and sight, if you actually look at how it developed, there is no sudden leap that cannot be explained through standard evolution.
 
Upvote 0

Bugeyedcreepy

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2016
1,660
1,431
Canberra, Australia
✟95,748.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Yes and that is precisely the point. In the future I shall use Stonehenge as an analogy, thank you. We may not be able to know anything about "who" built it but we can be sure there was a "who."
Of course - but again, we know this because of the evidence, not because it just looks like it was built. You can use Stone Henge as an analogy, but it fails for the same reason the Pyramids fail. We have the evidence to know it was man made and that it didn't occur naturally.
Well yes I am very aware of this fact. In fact I am likewise aware of the prophetic statement made by Christ Himself who predicted this condition. He spoke of a great movement of "MANY" who claim He is Christ but He will tell them to depart from Him for He never knew them. (Matthew 7:21-23) Jesus went on to describe who is solid in their faith with Him. In verse 24 He said it is the one's who not only "hear" His words but actually put them into practice. That obviously means there are things we are to take...ahem...literally. So here is Jesus telling us that there will be many who claim to know Him but they really don't and this is made obvious by the fact that they do not take His words seriously and literally. So I am not at all surprised when I see that those who do take His word literally are in the minority.
So, you're saying Christians here on this Forum (and many, many more elsewhere) aren't Christians? That's against Forum rules as far as I know - never mind judging others against your own doctrine.... I wonder if they say the same about you? I wonder who's right?
I see well I thought you meant "multiverse" in the sense as others who claim one finite universe spun off another and that one another and so on forever. But you seem to mean some sort of infinite multiverse spinning entity? If you add in the fact that ours displays characteristics of specificity which are intrinsically only associated with intelligence...
Tall Claim - Such as?
then how is that not the same definition we usually ascribe with the term "God?"
Besides your assumption that intelligence is somehow required, why anthropomorphise something unnecessarily that may not even be a thing in the first place? We have no reason to think this.
Actually you are talking about the oscillating universe theory which has been shown that if such a system occurred it would have long since died a heat death.
Well, that's one model - M-Theory (ironically, not actually a scientific Theory) also sports a model of brane collisions that discharge "universes" at each such event - there's a number of others too that have proponents in the Scientific Community but the evidence for them is particularly thin to non-existent - the models have some validity (and technical hurdles to be sure) - but they haven't been disproven just yet.
My Sunday News paper has ink that bonds to it through something that is just a basic chemical reaction following the laws of physics also. It's the arrangements of the ink on the paper we are talking about and all the biological literature describes the code in DNA as highly specified.
so you've seen an ink blot turn into words, then reproduce another ink blot that is almost identical also turn into words, but has slight variation and is subject to some form of natural selection while competing for limited resources? OR is your Sunday News Paper known to be created by an intelligent designer?
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.