• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Is the KJV more than a translation

DamianWarS

Follower of Isa Al Masih
Site Supporter
May 15, 2008
10,115
3,436
✟993,421.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Not true. We are joint heirs of Christ who is Jewish.
Jesus Himself said salvation is of the Jews (John 4:22).

"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Galatians 3:29).

When believers will be resurrected bodily, they will have the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ (who is of Jewish descent). We will be joint heirs of Abraham's seed (Who is the father of faith of the Jews).

culture and ethnicity are deemphasized eliminates and we are in fact encouraged to drop them to contextualise to our mission. We are also not the new Israel and if you're going to use this to prop up why we should value the KJV above all else it's just misses the point. Isreal has a very unique role in the bible and one that is well articulated. English speaking whites of the 16th-17th century are not mentioned in scripture.

Again, I am not talking about salvation here. God cares enough to have the gospel spread to all nations by various translations in different languages all over the world. I am talking about God preserving His Word in one particular language for our world today. A pure Word of God for man today that he can understand whereby He can deepen His faith and walk with the Lord in such a way that is according to His one and only pure Word (and not many Words).

The world language (or global language) is actually English.

it would be irresponsible to think non-native english speaker can deepen there walk with Christ using 17th century english. Christianity should not be in the business of adopting a language to hold the "pure word" of God and the very idea of this is ethnocentric. someone should not feel like they are missing out if they read scripture in their native tongue.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Hieronymus
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,904
...
✟1,318,586.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
culture and ethnicity are deemphasized eliminates and we are in fact encouraged to drop them to contextualise to our mission. We are also not the new Israel and if you're going to use this to prop up why we should value the KJV above all else it's just misses the point. Isreal has a very unique role in the bible and one that is well articulated. English speaking whites of the 16th-17th century are not mentioned in scripture.

But you are ignoring the point I made in how we will all be resurrected in the flesh and blood likeness of a Jew named Jesus Christ. You are ignoring the fact that we will be joint heirs of the seed of Abraham (Note: The seed being the Jesus Christ). Jesus said, salvation is of the Jews. So no. God is still into ethnocentricity. If this was not the case, then we would not be resurrected after the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. For without Christ, we cannot be resurrected. Jesus was a Jew. So I would say things are still very ethnocentric. God chose a special nation to spread His Word. When His chosen nation failed to accomplish that, He sent Jesus Christ to accomplish this mission instead.

Just because God favors one nation above others does not mean He does not care for other nations. God's goal with having a nation like Israel was so that it could be a light to the rest of the world. To be one nation under God. It's just that Jesus is the one who is going to make that a reality. There is no such thing as many nations in the end. It will all be one nation or kingdom who serves Jesus Christ (Who is our God and Lord).

But am I wrong for propping up the KJV as the divinely inspired Word of God with my point about how we will all be resurrected by the flesh and blood of Jesus (Who is a Jew)? No, sir.

For they are a parallel of how God operates. God sets apart certain things as being holy or separate. Not all things can be holy and set apart. That would be a contradiction. For you cannot say that all translations of the Word of God in the world are perfect and without error. For you, most likely you do not hold to the idea that there is a perfect Word of God out there. But how do you decide what is true and what is not true in the Bible? Do you just decide based on how you feel? Man is fallible.

As for English speaking whites of the 16-17th century not being spoken of in Scripture:
It is irrelevant. The issue is not one of English speaking whites in the 16th-17th century but it is issue of God's Word telling us that His Word is perfect and that it will be preserved for all generations. If His Word declares these two truths, then we must conclude that there is a perfect Word of God out there for our generation (world language) today. There can be only one Word of God and not many. If you value logical reasoning, then you will eventually be led to the truth that there can be only ONE Word of God (and not many).

You said:
it would be irresponsible to think non-native english speaker can deepen then walk with Christ using 17th century english. Christianity should not be in the business of adopting a language to hold the "pure word" of God and the very idea of this is ethnocentric. someone should not feel like they are missing out if they read scripture in their native tongue.

I am not suggesting that Christians should ignore other translations or translations in their own tongue. What I am saying is that we know for a fact that not all Bibles say the same exact thing. We also know God is not the author of confusion. Clearly the devil is. So by this reason, this means that certain Bibles have been corrupted. This does not mean we toss out Modern Versions because there is some good in them, but we do not simply make them our authority. You cannot make all Bibles your authority because they conflict with each other. You also cannot make Hebrew and Greek your authority because you did not grow up speaking and writing Biblical Hebrew and Greek because they are dead languages. In addition, do you make the Textus Receptus your authority or the Critical Text your authority? How do you truly decide? Were you there at the creation of these to truly know?

Well, the way we can know if they are good or bad is by doing a fruits test (like I said before). We see two vines. The KJV is based of the Textus Receptus and most of your Modern Translations are based off the Critical Text. So which vine are you going to choose? A simple side by side comparison will help you to see that the KJV is superior each and every time.

Side Note:

Granted, the 1600's English in the KJV is difficult for us Modern day English speakers to understand sometimes; However, this is why I encourage believers to use Modern Translations; Not as their final word of authority but as a means to help them to see what the KJV is saying.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
8,824
6,252
✟55,667.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
There seems a specific culture that looks at the KJV as the supreme authority of the written word of God above all else. I have a hard time following this logic as there is a whole lot of history before the KJV and after the KJV in thousands of languages that it seems rather arbitrary to pick the KJV above all else. This culture feels very ethnocentric I might add which then dips into offensive areas. Should not our quest in determining responsible scripture be a little more sophisticated and more focused at our mission?

The KJV is not more than a translation. Like every translation, it has strengths, weaknesses and errors. No translation can perfectly convey what is contained in an original language. This is why multiple translations are useful.

Furthermore, the KJV is based on source texts (Textus Receptus) that are very problematic. The KJV contains material that is certainly not authentic and cannot be considered Scripture. The famous "Comma Johanneum" is an example of a very spurious textual variant which is not original to John's letter.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,904
...
✟1,318,586.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The KJV is not more than a translation. Like every translation, it has strengths, weaknesses and errors. No translation can perfectly convey what is contained in an original language. This is why multiple translations are useful.

Furthermore, the KJV is based on source texts (Textus Receptus) that are very problematic. The KJV contains material that is certainly not authentic and cannot be considered Scripture. The famous "Comma Johanneum" is an example of a very spurious textual variant which is not original to John's letter.

Time Machine. Were you truly there to know? Surely not.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,904
...
✟1,318,586.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
For me, if there is a verse that clearly teaches the Trinity and it is removed, that tells me that such a translation is not good. For 1 John 5:7 is the most clearest verse on the teaching of the Trinity. But if you do not believe in the Trinity, then you can hold to the idea that the KJV was corrupt and follow a sea of conflicting Modern Version Bibles instead.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,904
...
✟1,318,586.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
But it is more than just 1 John 5:7.

There is the change of Romans 8:1, and Revelation 13:1, and many others that are just as equally disturbing. A general basic side by side comparison of the KJV vs. Modern Translations will show you such a thing. For if you were to do a Google search on such a thing (and keep your mind open), you will see what I am talking about.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,904
...
✟1,318,586.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
If I built a plane based on blue prints that were slightly corrupted or incomplete, would you want to fly in that plane? Surely not. Why would you want to put your trust in a Bible that could be corrupted in some way? It makes no sense.
 
Upvote 0

W2L

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2016
20,085
10,988
USA
✟213,593.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
If I built a plane based on blue prints that were slightly corrupted or incomplete, would you want to fly in that plane? Surely not. Why would you want to put your trust in a Bible that could be corrupted in some way? It makes no sense.
Is any translation perfect?
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
30,201
8,514
Canada
✟884,585.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
I believe a person can be saved by a primarily picture version of the gospel.

One Way.

But when it comes to having a pure Word of God that can truly matter the most in your life in your walk with God (to deepen your faith and relationship with the Lord), I would say it is the KJV because no other translation today comes close to matching it. Modern Versions have tons of corruptions within them. Granted, I use Modern Translations to help update the language sometimes in the KJV, but Modern Translations are not my final word of authority because they all say something different. There can be only one Word of God; And not many. Pure logic will lead you to that conclusion.
I think logic is a funny thing, logic will always lead us to our own conclusions, and these conclusions will lead us to our deaths ... but God .
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,904
...
✟1,318,586.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Is any translation perfect?

If there is not one perfect translation then you are off the hook in being held accountable to God's Word. For what determines which words are true or false when you read God's Word? What parts of the Word of God are we to be held accountable to? Do we just go off how we feel? Do we go off history that could have been corrupted by man?
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,904
...
✟1,318,586.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I think logic is a funny thing, logic will always lead us to our own conclusions, and these conclusions will lead us to our deaths ... but God .

God gave man to reason and think logically but only in the frame work of man having a relationship with God. When we ask for God's wisdom and logic, we see things the way He does.
 
Upvote 0

W2L

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2016
20,085
10,988
USA
✟213,593.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
If there is not one perfect translation then you are off the hook in being held accountable to God's Word. For what determines which words are true or false when you read God's Word? Do we just go off how we feel? Do we go off history that could have been corrupted by man?
In my opinion, the NT reiterates the same message often enough that we can compare scriptures, and gain proper insight.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hieronymus
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
30,201
8,514
Canada
✟884,585.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
God gave man to reason and think logically but only in the frame work of man having a relationship with God. When we ask for God's wisdom and logic, we see things the way He does.
With maturity, but not right away.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,904
...
✟1,318,586.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
In my opinion, the NT reiterates the same message often enough that we can compare scriptures, and gain proper insight.

What verse supports that line of reasoning, though? Majority is not always a good thing. Jesus said narrow is the way. Granted, I am not saying one cannot be saved without a KJV. What I am saying is that truth is not determined by the majority. Truth is determined by revelation of God and by the evidences that support the Holy Scriptures (in showing how they are divine in origin).
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,904
...
✟1,318,586.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
With maturity, but not right away.

I think it depends on the individual. I believe some saints were mature early on in their faith.
In fact, it is implied very strongly by Scripture that Enoch walked in such a way that pleased God so much that he did not see death. This suggests that he did not live like most people today do (even in his initial walk with God).
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,904
...
✟1,318,586.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
In my opinion, the NT reiterates the same message often enough that we can compare scriptures, and gain proper insight.

Take for example 1 John 5:7.

Should I value Modern Translations in their favor of removing the most clearest verse that teaches the Trinity? No sir. I should not value them for that.

What about Romans 8:1?
Should I value Modern Translations for removing Walk after the Spirit in Christ Jesus so as not to be a part of the Condemnation? Surely not (Unless one is a proponent of easy believism or something).
 
Upvote 0

W2L

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2016
20,085
10,988
USA
✟213,593.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
What verse supports that line of reasoning, though? Majority is not always a good thing. Jesus said narrow is the way. Granted, I am not saying one cannot be saved without a KJV. What I am saying is that truth is not determined by the majority. Truth is determined by revelation of God and by the evidences that support the Holy Scriptures (in showing how they are divine in origin).
The scriptures teach us all we need to know for following the Lord.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hieronymus
Upvote 0

W2L

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2016
20,085
10,988
USA
✟213,593.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Take for example 1 John 5:7.

Should I value Modern Translations in their favor of removing the most clearest verse that teaches the Trinity? No sir. I should not value them for that.

What about Romans 8:1?
Should I value Modern Translations for removing Walk after the Spirit in Christ Jesus so as not to be a part of the Condemnation? Surely not (Unless one is a proponent of easy believism or something).
I use NKJV primarily, and other versions as well secondary
 
Upvote 0

Dawnhammer

Well-Known Member
Mar 5, 2017
545
436
50
Denmark
✟38,474.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
most of the people I know seem to feel that the dignified and elegant, uplifting language of the KJV is special

Most of the people think they themselves, their language, their country and their ideas are special. Certainly more special than their neighbors or heaven forbid foreigners.

Usually there is no basis to this apart from personal perspective.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Site Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,685
7,904
...
✟1,318,586.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
  • Like
Reactions: W2L
Upvote 0