Another morality thread...

[Econ4every1]

This thread is intended to be a discussion. Rather than me opening with a long post about what I think morality is, I want to ask a few questions and respond to the answers and see where this goes.

What is morality?

In the fewest number of words.....A system of moral conduct with concerned with principles of behavior.

What do all moral acts have in common? What is it about a moral act that that makes it moral?

What do immoral acts have in common? What is it about immoral that makes it immoral?

 

[Winken]

Is the Word of God "moral," or do you look to secular morality for an answer?

 

[Ken-1122]

This thread is intended to be a discussion. Rather than me opening with a long post about what I think morality is, I want to ask a few questions and respond to the answers and see where this goes.

What is morality?

In the fewest number of words.....A system of moral conduct with concerned with principles of behavior.

What do all moral acts have in common?

Judgment. People judge acts as morally good or bad

What is it about a moral act that that makes it moral?

People will label acts as moral or immoral. I don’t think it is anything about the act that makes it moral, it is about the person who labels the act moral.

What do immoral acts have in common? What is it about immoral that makes it immoral?

Same as above

 

[durangodawood]

1.What is morality?

2. What do all moral acts have in common?

1. morality is the rules for good human behavior.

2a. acts of enduring morality promote individual and social flourishing
2b. some acts are moral by accident of cultural history or are obsolete and arbitrary social bonding leftovers

 

[Econ4every1]

Is the Word of God "moral," or do you look to secular morality for an answer?

I'm not trying to be disrespectful when I ask this, but if God's word is moral, does that mean that anything god proclaims is moral, is moral?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Let me try!

Morality relates to adumbrations of the value of being (existence), and of beings (entities); primarily for humans as social entities, and also in relation to God, and the logos and techne of this. And is a form of active pistis: faithfulness, trust, warranty.

techne Techne - Wikipedia
logos Logos - Wikipedia
adumbration http://faculty.www.umb.edu/steven.levine/courses/Spring 2017/MB/Glossary.pdf
Pistis Strong's Greek: 4102. πίστις (pistis) -- faith, faithfulness

 

[Econ4every1]

Let me try!

Morality relates to adumbrations of the value of being (existence), and of beings (entities); primarily for humans as social entities, and also in relation to God, and the logos and techne of this. And is a form of active pistis: faithfulness, trust, warranty.

techne Techne - Wikipedia
logos Logos - Wikipedia
adumbration http://faculty.www.umb.edu/steven.levine/courses/Spring 2017/MB/Glossary.pdf
Pistis Strong's Greek: 4102. πίστις (pistis) -- faith, faithfulness

Wow, that sounds like a really sophisticated answer, but, and I'm not trying to be snarky when I say this, but unless I'm a walking encyclopedia, that doesn't mean a lot to me.

How might you explain that to a teenager?

 

[Econ4every1]

1. morality is the rules for good human behavior.

2a. acts of enduring morality promote individual and social flourishing
2b. some acts are moral by accident of cultural history or are obsolete and arbitrary social bonding leftovers

If morality promotes something (and I don't disagree btw), why should humans promote something like social flourishing? Isn't that an arbitrary choice? Why not promote something like selfishness?

 

[Econ4every1]

Judgment. People judge acts as morally good or bad

People will label acts as moral or immoral. I don’t think it is anything about the act that makes it moral, it is about the person who labels the act moral.

Same as above

So you think the choice to call something moral is arbitrary? There is no foundation in human experience in which to choose a certain set of actions over another?

 

[tdidymas]

This thread is intended to be a discussion. Rather than me opening with a long post about what I think morality is, I want to ask a few questions and respond to the answers and see where this goes.

What is morality?

In the fewest number of words.....A system of moral conduct with concerned with principles of behavior.

What do all moral acts have in common? What is it about a moral act that that makes it moral?

What do immoral acts have in common? What is it about immoral that makes it immoral?

IMO morality is obedience to God's word. Of course, there are ramifications to this statement. "Love your neighbor..." is one example. The Bible says "Love is the fulfillment of the law," so if our sole purpose is to do good our neighbor (the God-kind of love) in everything we do, then we can't go wrong. "He who loves his brother lives in God, and there is no cause for stumbling in him." (1 Jn. 2:10).
TD

 

[durangodawood]

If morality promotes something (and I don't disagree btw), why should humans promote something like social flourishing? Isn't that an arbitrary choice? Why not promote something like selfishness?

A completely selfish morality will result in a dead society. We are more like to see moral frameworks the promote some kind of social continuity against the forces of nature and competing cultures.

This isnt arbitrary at all.

 

[Econ4every1]

A completely selfish morality will result in a dead society. We are more like to see moral frameworks the promote some kind of social continuity against the forces of nature and competing cultures.

This isn't arbitrary at all.

I wasn't trying to imply that it is, to the contrary, I don't believe it's arbitrary at all. I was just asking if it's not arbitrary, then is morality subjective? Is it objective? Why do moral frameworks result in "social continuity"?

 

[Econ4every1]

IMO morality is obedience to God's word. Of course, there are ramifications to this statement./QUOTE]

(Everything I say I say with respect)

If that's true, if God's word commanded selfishness, then, by definition that would be good?

 

[durangodawood]

I wasn't trying to imply that it is, to the contrary, I don't believe it's arbitrary at all. I was just asking if it's not arbitrary, then is morality subjective? Is it objective? Why do moral frameworks result in "social continuity"?

Lets propose for a second that you do think its objective. What exactly do you mean by that?

 

[Econ4every1]

Lets propose for a second that you do think its objective. What exactly do you mean by that?

I don't think it's objective, but I was asking you.

Subjective - Means that it's subject to interpretation
Objective means something is what it is regardless of how we feel about it.

 

[zephcom]

I'm not trying to be disrespectful when I ask this, but if God's word is moral, does that mean that anything god proclaims is moral, is moral?

I think that one should first answer an even more basic question: Do we even possess 'God's word' in any verifiable form at all?

I would suggest that none of the religious documents around the world can be verified as representing 'God's word'. Instead they represent human beliefs about God. Many phrase those beliefs as if they came from the mouth of God, but in reality, they came from the mind of humans.

 

[Econ4every1]

I think that one should first answer an even more basic question: Do we even possess 'God's word' in any verifiable form at all?

I would suggest that none of the religious documents around the world can be verified as representing 'God's word'. Instead they represent human beliefs about God. Many phrase those beliefs as if they came from the mouth of God, but in reality, they came from the mind of humans.

Ok, but we both know that we're not going to talk people out of their belief in god or that the word of god is the foundation of morality.

But we can talk about morality with respect to god, perhaps to shed new light on the subject. That's what I'm trying to do.

 

[durangodawood]

I don't think it's objective, but I was asking you.

Subjective - Means that it's subject to interpretation
Objective means something is what it is regardless of how we feel about it.

Well morality is not precisely either of those things.

Enduring morals derive from the objective facts of satisfying human living. AND we also can argue about them, have opinions, etc.

But I do think the larger portion is objectively based. I mean, we can interpret all day long about whether its metaphysically ok to kill your neighbor. But as soon as we consider the objective real world implications, we come down pretty strongly on one side.

 

[zephcom]

Ok, but we both know that we're not going to talk people out of their belief in god or that the word of god is the foundation of morality.

But we can talk about morality with respect to god, perhaps to shed new light on the subject. That's what I'm trying to do.

I don't expect to talk anyone out of a belief in God. After all, as a Deist, I believe there is a God. My point is that when one tries to base morality on a 'word of God' I think it is very important that one can validate they are actually USING the Word of God.

The truth is that all morality is culturally based. The dominate religion within a culture becomes, by default, the Word of God. The creators of either the oral tradition or the written sacred documents codify the morality of the culture by giving it the patina of being sanctioned by God.

In America, that religion is Christianity. In the Middle East, that religion is Islam. In Israel, that religion is Judaism. In other areas the religion could be Hindu or Buddhism. And the morality differs in those cultures to reflect the religion of the country.

 

[Econ4every1]

I don't expect to talk anyone out of a belief in God. After all, as a Deist, I believe there is a God. My point is that when one tries to base morality on a 'word of God' I think it is very important that one can validate they are actually USING the Word of God.

The truth is that all morality is culturally based. The dominate religion within a culture becomes, by default, the Word of God. The creators of either the oral tradition or the written sacred documents codify the morality of the culture by giving it the patina of being sanctioned by God.

In America, that religion is Christianity. In the Middle East, that religion is Islam. In Israel, that religion is Judaism. In other areas the religion could be Hindu or Buddhism. And the morality differs in those cultures to reflect the religion of the country.

So then, morality really isn't based on words of people or god/s. It's based on the subjective values that people hold in different cultures, agreed?