The forgotten

[lasthero]

I care what happens in the black community, but the black community doesn't seem to care what happens in the black community. That's my point.

We do. We talk about the black on black crime problem and hold rallies about and discuss it all the time.

This 'black people don't care about black on black crime' line is provably untrue.

 

[lasthero]

I can't address your ego, nor how good you think you are, let's just say perhaps definitive is not an accurate word to use.

So, no, you did not.

Well, let's see - I seem to recall showing you charts and data showing that, in fact, the cities with the most gun crime weren't the cities the most gun control, and I seem to recall you admitting that you spoke a bit too soon on the matter. Am I confusing you with someone else? If so, I can dig up the data again.

 

[AirPo]

I care what happens in the black community, but the black community doesn't seem to care what happens in the black community. That's my point.

The only solution, as I see it, is for the black community to begin policing itself. That will eliminate the unjust actions of white police forces.

But you just said you don't take them seriously, which make it difficult to take anything you say seriously.

 

[Always in His Presence]

We do. We talk about the black on black crime problem and hold rallies about and discuss it all the time.

.

Then please link the last three threads discussing it.

 

[Cearbhall]

Then please link the last three threads discussing it.

Threads?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Clearly not, or you would be involved in the efforts to fix the problem instead of sitting on the Internet claiming that they don't exist and refusing to even look.

I can name half a dozen such organizations in my own city. Yet my father is much like you. He's never made an effort to look into what's going on, because then he can keep claiming that no one is doing anything, and therefore he doesn't need to, either. It's sad.

I'm a "my way or the highway" guy. I have my pet solutions but they are of no interest to anyone else. Why would I help organizations that are doomed to fail in this effort as so many have? My solutions would work.

 

[lasthero]

Then please link the last three threads discussing it.

What would that prove? If there's not a thread on CF about it, it doesn't count?

 

[Cearbhall]

I'm a "my way or the highway" guy. I have my pet solutions but they are of no interest to anyone else. Why would I help organizations that are doomed to fail in this effort as so many have?

I see. You have a whole chain of excuses ready to go.

 

[AirPo]

I'm a "my way or the highway" guy. I have my pet solutions but they are of no interest to anyone else. Why would I help organizations that are doomed to fail in this effort as so many have? My solutions would work.

No they wouldn't, that attitude is just part of the problem.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I see. You have a whole chain of excuses ready to go.

I have solutions, you have criticisms. Who's right?

 

[Cearbhall]

I have solutions, you have criticisms. Who's right?

You're doing nothing with those solutions, whereas I've actually been an activist and put my ideas out there. I'm right.

I have action. You have excuses. Who's right?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No they wouldn't, that attitude is just part of the problem.

They work on paper (that's where great ideas take shape). They just have to be implemented.

 

[SummerMadness]

Racist argument: black-on-black crime

Most crime is intraracial, there is nothing special about black people killing black people, just like there is not special about white people killing white people. The simple facts is you do not care about Chicago (especially since it is not the most violent city), you simply want to ignore state-sponsored violence because that's has always been the MO of people opposed to civil rights movements. All the arguments used today are the exact same ones used in the 1960s, when homicide rates were significantly higher, "Why are they focusing on segregation? They need to focus on the violence in their communities. More black people are killed by black people than by police officers in the South."

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You're doing nothing with those solutions, whereas I've actually been an activist and put my ideas out there. I'm right.

How that working for ya, or more importantly, them?

 

[AirPo]

They work on paper (that's where great ideas take shape). They just have to be implemented.

Paper won't stop a bullet. But if you're a cop, the paper gets you off the hook. Get it now?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Paper won't stop a bullet. But if you're a cop, the paper gets you off the hook. Get it now?

I'm not too concerned about the police shooting blacks (as I said that's a footnote). I'm more concerned about the big picture: Will the black community succeed or fail in America.

 

[Cearbhall]

How that working for ya, or more importantly, them?

Are you under the impression that you're successfully justifying your lack of action? If a problem hasn't been solved and current efforts aren't working, that means there's more work to do. It's not an excuse to continue to not get involved, much less to mock those who are trying.

I can't believe this is what passes as Christianity.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Are you under the impression that you're successfully justifying your lack of action? If a problem hasn't been solved and current efforts aren't working, that means there's more work to do. It's not an excuse to continue to not get involved, much less to mock those who are trying.

I can't believe this is what passes as Christianity.

My involvement is measured. If I see someone doing something wrong I'm not going to jump in and help them. That solves nothing. Also I don't have the time or energy to get too involved. Organizations, such as the one's you support, are not really interested in outside ideas, especially ideas that are better than theirs. Many such organizations are more about 'feeling good' than 'doing good'. Also there are powers that don't want these problems solved, powers that we can't fight.

"Cynicism is not a moral or intellectual failing, but the normal result of witnessing and experiencing the failure of others over time." -OldWiseGuy.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I see. You have a whole chain of excuses ready to go.

The next step is up to them, not me.

 

[dgiharris]

I'm not too concerned about the police shooting blacks (as I said that's a footnote). I'm more concerned about the big picture: Will the black community succeed or fail in America.

What do you think of as "the black community" when you say that statement.

There are middle class and affluent black communities, but they are overshadowed by poorer black communities.

Is it accurate if I find a trailer park and label that the "White Community?" Of course not.

At its essence, the root cause of problems in poor black communities is simply one of economics. Systematic and institutional racism has led to an environment that is self perpetuating in its economic oppression.

Give you an example. WHen I was in a poor black neighborhood there were no jobs to be found in that area. Less economic activity means less jobs, means less opportunity... It also means "less" money flowing into the community which in turn means less opportunity. This often translates into less tax revenue for the community which impacts the public schools and public facilities (like libraries) in that area. This equates to less opportunity to advance oneself which again leads to the self perpetuating economic oppression.

Not to say this is limited to "just" poor black communities. This is a problem for "any" poor community. It's just that with being a poor black community you get additional problems, like being targeting by police (Look at the "War on Drugs" graphs and incarceration rates).

So what is the solution? Well, first step involves an accurate assessment of the problem. ANd I submit, fundamentally, it is an economic problem that is "exasperated" by systemic and institutional racism.