Are there transitional fossils?

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

You win! Call it transitional if you wish. You are in a lot of good company. However, I will accept the find in Poland until it is actually debunked. But I would like to add that with your keenly inquiring mind that sum would be a worthwhile investment. Some sources like Science and the AAAS offer free access. I will submit the argument to you, because this guy made a good point...just because a bunch of people agree (even with letters after their name) does not mean their assessment is correct.

And yet the main person making the argument that the assessment of scientists is incorrect... is a unnamed nobody on the internet.

 

[pshun2404]

And yet the main person making the argument that the assessment of scientists is incorrect... is a unnamed nobody on the internet.

From one "unnamed nobody on the internet" to another, I thank you!

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

From one "unnamed nobody on the internet" to another, I thank you!

Not a compliment.

 

[Astrophile]

I actually can't read the full article because it's behind a paywall, and I am not spending £33 just for one single article. So perhaps you can actually quote the section where the author says that since I'd be interested in reading that segment.
Although, from my reading on the internet, the first tetrapods are still classed as being MARINE animals, meaning that they were more likely to be fishapods than what can be considered true tetrapods. So you really seem to not actually be that understanding of what is being said.

The link for the full article is https://www.researchgate.net/public...itical_Review_of_Devonian_Tetrapod_Footprints .

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

The link for the full article is https://www.researchgate.net/public...itical_Review_of_Devonian_Tetrapod_Footprints .

Much obliged!

 

[Astrophile]

Could you please show us any self replicating organic molecules outside of being part of a living system?

Ribonucleic acids can self-replicate - RNA world - Wikipedia . I found an article about 'Self-replicating systems' by Volker Patzke and Günter von Kiedrowski - http://www.arkat-usa.org/get-file/19231. The authors 'outline the design of minimal model systems, mainly based on oligonucleotides and on peptides and artificial compounds, which implement template-directed reactions.' There is also an article about a suggestion by Robert Shapiro that life didn't begin with a molecule that replicated itself but with a bunch of molecules that replicated each other - http://www.news.softpedia.com/news/Life-Did-Not-Appear-With-a-Self-Replicating-Molecule-23935.shtml. You could also try http://www.slideshare.net/bfrezza/selfreplicating-molecules-an-introduction .

 

[pshun2404]

Not a compliment.

You're welcome!

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

You're welcome!

You're a strange person.

 

[pshun2404]

Ribonucleic acids can self-replicate - RNA world - Wikipedia . I found an article about 'Self-replicating systems' by Volker Patzke and Günter von Kiedrowski - http://www.arkat-usa.org/get-file/19231. The authors 'outline the design of minimal model systems, mainly based on oligonucleotides and on peptides and artificial compounds, which implement template-directed reactions.' There is also an article about a suggestion by Robert Shapiro that life didn't begin with a molecule that replicated itself but with a bunch of molecules that replicated each other - http://www.news.softpedia.com/news/Life-Did-Not-Appear-With-a-Self-Replicating-Molecule-23935.shtml. You could also try http://www.slideshare.net/bfrezza/selfreplicating-molecules-an-introduction .

It does not happen in nature only in labs. It is hypothesized to happen in nature but that is not the same thing.

 

[pshun2404]

It does not happen in nature only in labs. It is hypothesized to happen in nature but that is not the same thing.

Not one of the very rare cases of an RNA molecule found in nature "self-replicates".

 

[doubtingmerle]

It does not happen in nature only in labs. It is hypothesized to happen in nature but that is not the same thing.

Uh huh, and what is your hypothesis, that zebras popped into existence out of nothing?

Zebras do not pop into existence out of nothing in the lab, nor in real life. So exactly how can you claim you view of origins is scientific.

It seems to me more likely that there were RNA molecules that replicated themselves from other RNA, than that zebras pop into existence out of nothing.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Not one of the very rare cases of an RNA molecule found in nature "self-replicates".

Not one mammal has ever been observed to pop into existence out of nothing.

 

[doubtingmerle]

You win! Call it transitional if you wish. You are in a lot of good company. However, I will accept the find in Poland until it is actually debunked.

We win? Thanks.

Finding tracks before Titaalik would not prove Tiktaalik was not transitional, any more than finding remnants of Vikings in America would prove that Columbus did not go to America. So the Vikings got there first? So what. Columbus still led the move that brought mainstream Europe to America.

So even if some other creature was on the land before Tiktaalik, Tiktaalik could have fathered all later land dwellers, and been a true ancestor.

Or Tiktaalik could have just been a distant relative of the true invader of the land that had appeared earlier. That does not matter. Tiktaalik is still representative of features in the middle, and thus is representative of the ancestor of land dwellers.

 

[pshun2404]

Uh huh, and what is your hypothesis, that zebras popped into existence out of nothing?

Zebras do not pop into existence out of nothing in the lab, nor in real life. So exactly how can you claim you view of origins is scientific.

It seems to me more likely that there were RNA molecules that replicated themselves from other RNA, than that zebras pop into existence out of nothing.

Great! Only as far as we can tell, from the real evidence, it didn't happen. Are you saying I should accept this on blind faith?

 

[doubtingmerle]

And yet the first life form had to do just that did it not, spring forth from the dust of the ground since there was no life prior to it???????

So its ok if your first life form springs forth as long as ours doesn't, right?

I think you forgot to mention that zebras don't spring forth from the dust of the ground,
as many here propose happened. How does your view stand up to the "this does not happen often" argument?

 

[doubtingmerle]

How did the first life arise from non life?

One day kaboom, there was a zebra popped up out of nothing and then Kaboom, there was a lion, and then kaboom, an elephant? Are you seriously trying to submit that as more credible than bacteria evolving from goo?

 

[pshun2404]

We win? Thanks.

Finding tracks before Titaalik would not prove Tiktaalik was not transitional, any more than finding remnants of Vikings in America would prove that Columbus did not go to America. So the Vikings got there first? So what. Columbus still led the move that brought mainstream Europe to America.

Really? You think that is an analogy? Here is the analogy...if the Vikings got there first that would prove Columbus did not get there first. Or that if Columbus's grandparents came first then they did not come after or from Columbus.

But your nonsense here is just unrelated and disjointed logic.

 

[doubtingmerle]

I understand EXACTLY what transitional means and always meant. If you need to change the meaning to appear correct I am not surprised since this is what propaganda campaigns must do.

Ah, you turn to an argument from semantics?

Representatives of a distant ancestor of modern animals that are a close cousin to the true ancestor are considered transitional by scientists. So what word do you think we should use for cousins of ancestors that look just like the ancestor? Scientists call it "transitional".

 

[doubtingmerle]

Really? You think that is an analogy? Here is the analogy...if the Vikings got there first that would prove Columbus did not get there first.

I didn't know it was a race. Scientists are not looking for serial number 1, the very first animal to walk on earth. With so few animals fossilizing, they are quite happy to find a distant cousin of one of many early earth walkers, even if the one they find is first cousin of earth walker serial number 17,258.

 

[AV1611VET]

One day kaboom, there was a zebra popped up out of nothing and then Kaboom, there was a lion, and then kaboom, an elephant.

Are you interpreting "kaboom" as "God spoke"?