Jesus' commandments - opposed to His Fathers Commandments? - Really?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No. If a Christian sins they are not a Christian. You cannot serve two masters.

Can a doctor be a Christian, and still refuse to help someone, like the 98 others?.....

If a doctors sins, then, you mean they are not a Christian ?

Can they be a Christian stumbling, unwittingly maybe, and still repent ?

Can they, like any other person, break a commandment , then later repent ?

 

[1stcenturylady]

If a doctors sins, then, you mean they are not a Christian ?

Can they be a Christian stumbling, unwittingly maybe, and still repent ?

Can they, like any other person, break a commandment , then later repent ?

yes, they can repent. However, "Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

yes, they can repent. However, "Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."

Can you find, or do you have, or maybe another reader does,

the verbs and adjectives in or from the original language this was translated from
that
includes (I think) , perhaps, the verb tense, and/or heart motive, or the ongoing desire, if it is present in the text (but not fully translated),
and not just the action or the thought at the moment of sin/ sinning ?
I'll look it up shortly if God Permits (time wise), but have to go now for a while.

Tis a JOY to BEHOLD and to DELIGHT IN GOD'S WORD ! YES ! AMEIN !

 

[1stcenturylady]

Can you find, or do you have, or maybe another reader does,

the verbs and adjectives in or from the original language this was translated from
that
includes (I think) , perhaps, the verb tense, and/or heart motive, or the ongoing desire, if it is present in the text (but not fully translated),
and not just the action or the thought at the moment of sin/ sinning ?
I'll look it up shortly if God Permits (time wise), but have to go now for a while.

Tis a JOY to BEHOLD and to DELIGHT IN GOD'S WORD ! YES ! AMEIN !

I do know that it is commit sin, not practice sin as some translations add.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I do know that it is commit sin, not practice sin as some translations add.

The whole of Scripture tells us that what is being spoken of here is willful sin, not unintentional, or unknown sin. God always looks at the heart and motives.

Unintentional or unknown sins are the only kind of sins a person who is walking in the Spirit can make as the Spirit would never lead a person into willful sin. 1 John 1:7 tells us those sins are being cleansed by the blood of Jesus (continuously, and without the need of repentance...yet, until the Holy Spirit's timing to convict or bring to an awareness of truth not yet revealed through the Spirit to them.)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I do know that it is commit sin, not practice sin as some translations add.

Here's a few flavors/ translations for comparison; none of them contradict the others , when the meaning is understood from YHWH:

1 John 3:9 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

New Living Translation
Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God.

English Standard Version
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Berean Study Bible
Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God's seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Berean Literal Bible
Anyone having been born of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to continue sinning, because he has been born of God.

New American Standard Bible
No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

King James Bible
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Everyone who has been born of God does not sin, because His seed remains in him; he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.

International Standard Version
No one who has been born from God practices sin, because God's seed abides in him. Indeed, he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born from God.

NET Bible
Everyone who has been fathered by God does not practice sin, because God's seed resides in him, and thus he is not able to sin, because he has been fathered by God.

New Heart English Bible
Whoever is born of God does not commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
No one who is begotten from God commits sin, because his seed is in him and he is not able to sin because he has been begotten from God.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

and without the need of repentance..

This is subject to serious testing.

"Repentance" includes/ means/ "Turn to YHWH" Look to YHWH, Seek YHWH in all things,

so the need for repentance is even if there is no sin when realized this way.

Jesus looked to the Father for all things - Jesus spoke only what the Father spoke, and Jesus did only what He Saw the Father Do.... all the time, every day, every night 24/7/365/etenity(humanly speaking) in union, Echad, with ABBA YHWH.

Then Jesus has the TRUTH and the boldness to tell His disciples to live the same way as Jesus ! Amein! It is SO !

 

[1stcenturylady]

Here's a few flavors/ translations for comparison; none of them contradict the others , when the meaning is understood from YHWH:

1 John 3:9 ►
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

New Living Translation
Those who have been born into God's family do not make a practice of sinning, because God's life is in them. So they can't keep on sinning, because they are children of God.

English Standard Version
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Berean Study Bible
Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God's seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

Berean Literal Bible
Anyone having been born of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to continue sinning, because he has been born of God.

New American Standard Bible
No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

King James Bible
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Everyone who has been born of God does not sin, because His seed remains in him; he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.

International Standard Version
No one who has been born from God practices sin, because God's seed abides in him. Indeed, he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born from God.

NET Bible
Everyone who has been fathered by God does not practice sin, because God's seed resides in him, and thus he is not able to sin, because he has been fathered by God.

New Heart English Bible
Whoever is born of God does not commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
No one who is begotten from God commits sin, because his seed is in him and he is not able to sin because he has been begotten from God.

The apostles said:

Romans 6:1-2 Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Romans 8:8-9 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Galatians 5:16-18 Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

1 John 3:6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

 

[1stcenturylady]

This is subject to serious testing.

"Repentance" includes/ means/ "Turn to YHWH" Look to YHWH, Seek YHWH in all things,

so the need for repentance is even if there is no sin when realized this way.

Turn to YHWH. Good point.

Have you ever noticed in the sacrifice for unintentional sins in Numbers 15 part of the ingredients are bread and wine? I really think that is significant. That is why I make sure even if I can't think of any sin to repent of that I'm cleansed when I take the Cup of the New Covenant. To take the cup with unrepented willful sin is to take it unworthily. IMO I know it is not worded that way, but I make sure anyway.


Jesus looked to the Father for all things - Jesus spoke only what the Father spoke, and Jesus did only what He Saw the Father Do.... all the time, every day, every night 24/7/365/etenity(humanly speaking) in union, Echad, with ABBA YHWH.

Then Jesus has the TRUTH and the boldness to tell His disciples to live the same way as Jesus ! Amein! It is SO !

 

[Bob S]

No. If a Christian sins they are not a Christian. You cannot serve two masters.

That is simply not true lady. Have you not heard of Grace. Sorry, but to me you sound self righteous. It would be wonderful if we could stop sinning. I look forward to eternity where this carnal body takes on immortality. The difference between you and me on the subject is that I admit I am a sinner and you do not. Why do you present yourself as celibate? Is that a virtue, part of your dream that keeps you from having thoughts that are sinful. If you are correct in all that you write then you will be one lonely gal in Heaven. Abraham sinned after he was counted as being righteous. David sinned throughout his life. Moses was not permitted to enter the promised land because he sinned. Yep, you, Jesus and good old Elijah will rattle around Heaven all day.

 

[1stcenturylady]

That is simply not true lady. Have you not heard of Grace. Sorry, but to me you sound self righteous. It would be wonderful if we could stop sinning. I look forward to eternity where this carnal body takes on immortality. The difference between you and me on the subject is that I admit I am a sinner and you do not. Why do you present yourself as celibate? Is that a virtue, part of your dream that keeps you from having thoughts that are sinful. If you are correct in all that you write then you will be one lonely gal in Heaven. Abraham sinned after he was counted as being righteous. David sinned throughout his life. Moses was not permitted to enter the promised land because he sinned. Yep, you, Jesus and good old Elijah will rattle around Heaven all day.

Grace is not a license to sin, Bob. Paul said to that notion, God forbid! We are dead to sin. John said, "Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him." In Acts, grace is equated with power. Grace is the power of God to NOT SIN, besides the gifts of the Spirit. It is not a covering over our rotten flesh.

Paul also doesn't agree with you again in Romans. "O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!" "So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Walk in the Spirit and you won't be in the flesh all the time.

 

[BobRyan]

As I recall when I was studying in Adventist schools, I never learned about covenants, nor signs of covenants. I see you didn't either.

Bob, you know a lot about law, but not HOW we are not under the law.

'

You assume much.

Romans 6 not under Law but under grace --- and yet sin not... where "Sin is transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.

Means - under under condemnation of the LAW.

But it does not mean "we can go ahead and take God's name in vain since that has nothing to do with loving your neighbor and that is the only commandment not quoted in the NT" -- as I am sure we all already know.

So then back to the subject of this thread - Christ's word not in conflict with the Commandments of God.

 

[listed]

You posted


But it is the very start of your post where you make a key mistake.



That is the most extreme contradiction of the claims of Christ in the Gospel of John - that I have ever seen!!

John 14
9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

Matt 19
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Why don't you like what John 15:10 says? Can you prove Jesus is saying keep the law with this verse? Did Jesus give the law?

Jesus didn't teach the law with His words in the disputed verse. Jesus even gave a new commandment.

 

[1stcenturylady]

'

You assume much.

Romans 6 not under Law but under grace --- and yet sin not... where "Sin is transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.

Means - under under condemnation of the LAW.

But it does not mean "we can go ahead and take God's name in vain since that has nothing to do with loving your neighbor and that is the only commandment not quoted in the NT" -- as I am sure we all already know.

So then back to the subject of this thread - Christ's word not in conflict with the Commandments of God.

Hi Bob R,

Those who walk by the Spirit are not under the law. The Spirit does NOT TAKE GOD'S NAME IN VAIN. Does He? No. I know you are just using that commandment in lieu of the Sabbath, which is the elephant in the room and we all know it. LOL

So let's cut to the chase. The Sabbath was the Sign (Exodus 31:13) of the Old Covenant. It foreshadowed Jesus (Colossians 2:17) who was the substance of our Rest and Trust in God. Jesus gave a New Covenant - a New Will and Testament, that would come to force after His death. The Sign of the New Covenant represented Christ's blood He shed - the Cup of the New Covenant, 1 Corinthians 11:25.

Bob, this is why of all the commandments we are not under the law of the Sabbath. That sign was only until Jesus' New Covenant came into force. Now we drink the Cup of the New Covenant.

The other laws are written on our heart. However, Jesus did give us a new commandment - to love. Neither belief in Jesus, nor love was in the Old Covenant.

The apostle John wrote the most quoted Scripture on commandments. Remember John 15:15? "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." You assume Jesus is talking about the Ten Commandments. Wrong. John also tells us what those commandments of Jesus are:

"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Jesus also gave us a precious gift in order to accomplish His righteousness. The gift of the Holy Spirit. A gift the Jews under the Old Covenant never had.


P. S. God knows you keep the Sabbath in honor of Him. I certainly don't condemn you, because God doesn't. Just know why we don't keep the 7th day Sabbath. Some Christians are confused in another way. They call Sunday, the Sabbath because of the Commandment they are not under. They are not taught about walking in the Spirit to not be under the law, nor His power to make us dead to sin, and cultivates the fruit of the Spirit. Those who sin willfully, put themselves back under the law to keep all of it perfectly. But they think they have a relationship with God, but walk in darkness. They do not know Christ. But more importantly, Jesus will say to them, "I never knew you."

Also, just so you know my heart. I still get warm fuzzies when I pass a Seventh-day Adventist church. I love you guys. I owe you a lot!

 

[BobRyan]

Why don't you like what John 15:10 says?

I never said I don't like what Jesus says in John 15.

Where did you come up with that idea?

 

[BobRyan]

Hi Bob R,

Those who walk by the Spirit are not under the law.

They are not under the condemnation of the LAW - but they are obligated to honor parents, to not take God's name in vain etc.

"I write these things that you sin not" 1 John 2:1
"sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4

I think we already covered that - but just in case.

The Spirit does NOT TAKE GOD'S NAME IN VAIN.

in fact He does not trash any part of the Word of God - because He authored it.

The Spirit does not lead toward sin and lawlessness - but rather to obedience.

IN Romans 8:4-10 we are told that the lost "do not submit to the law of God - neither indeed CAN they".

In Hebrews 8 we are told that the New Covenant "writes the LAW of God on the heart and mind".

So let's cut to the chase. The Sabbath was the Sign (Exodus 31:13) of the Old Covenant.

No text says "the Sabbath is the sign that you are under the Old Covenant" -- as we all know.

Also, just so you know my heart. I still get warm fuzzies when I pass a Seventh-day Adventist church. I love you guys. I owe you a lot!

Well - I am sure you also know that I get warm fuzzies when I look at this list of pro-Sunday scholarship that affirms the Bible detail about the 4th Commandment is still applicable to Christians -- to this very day. ... all TEN of the TEN Commandments still continue.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

 

[1stcenturylady]

They are not under the condemnation of the LAW - but they are obligated to honor parents, to not take God's name in vain etc.

"I write these things that you sin not" 1 John 2:1
"sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4

I think we already covered that - but just in case.



in fact He does not trash any part of the Word of God - because He authored it.

The Spirit does not lead toward sin and lawlessness - but rather to obedience.

IN Romans 8:4-10 we are told that the lost "do not submit to the law of God - neither indeed CAN they".

In Hebrews 8 we are told that the New Covenant "writes the LAW of God on the heart and mind".





No text says "the Sabbath is the sign that you are under the Old Covenant" -- as we all know.



Well - I am sure you also know that I get warm fuzzies when I look at this list of pro-Sunday scholarship that affirms the Bible detail about the 4th Commandment is still applicable to Christians -- to this very day. ... all TEN of the TEN Commandments still continue.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

You don't have to understand how Jesus is the substance of the Sabbath, and now that we have the real, we no longer keep the shadow, but I still love you guys.

 

[BobRyan]

You don't have to understand how Jesus is the substance of the Sabbath, and now that we have the real, we no longer keep the shadow, but I still love you guys.

You are free to "quote you" on that point all day long. We all accept the fact that people have free will.

 

[bugkiller]

'

You assume much.

Romans 6 not under Law but under grace --- and yet sin not... where "Sin is transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.

Means - under under condemnation of the LAW.

What exactly do you base the above statement on?

But it does not mean "we can go ahead and take God's name in vain since that has nothing to do with loving your neighbor and that is the only commandment not quoted in the NT" -- as I am sure we all already know.

Where is the 4th quoted in the NT? I am not asking where the word sabbath appears.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I never said I don't like what Jesus says in John 15.

Where did you come up with that idea?

Bet it is the title of the thread and maybe he read how you handled the verse in another thread.

bugkiller