5 reasons babies should be baptized

[DarthNeo]

Baptizing a baby does NOTHING but get it wet...

 

[Sonny Gabriel]

Everyone is born a sinner. Even babies. But infant baptism does nothing but get the child wet. A baptism does NOT save a person, whether they are an infant or a full grown adult. Baptism is a way for people to show the world their commitment to The Lord AFTER they have accepted him into their hearts. Saying that a baby is born a sinner is not awful because it is true. But infants that die as infants do not go to hell. Someone who dies before they can comprehend the scripture or before they understand the moral differences of right and wrong are, I, as a baptist believe, saved by the grace of God. Infants, young children, the mentally unable, etc. Anyone that is unable to understand the Bible or it's moral obligations has a pass from God. Since they are unable to understand it in this life, God saves them and brings them into his. That is my two cents on that subject

 

[OpenYourBibles]

Here is an excellent 11 minute video covering five of the most commonly given scriptural reasons infants should be baptized.

This is a big question about nothing...

Can an infant repent?
If you do reply Yes, What is he repenting from?

Can you name a time in scripture when baptism occurred without repentance first taking place?

Finally, if an infant is baptized, what is the purpose of that baptism, or better said what is being accomplished through that action?

 

[Tangible]

God has all the power of the universe at His disposal.

I couldn't agree more.

If this were true, then to fulfill scripture John would have been born about 25-30 years earlier and then would have been at the river upon Christ's birth and baptised Jesus out of the womb to insure that all the scripture were met.

John's baptism was not Christian Baptism as instituted by Our Lord, recorded in Matthew 28. The Baptism of Our Lord was not done for the same reasons as Christian Baptism is done.

In submitting to John's Baptism, a baptism of repentance, Jesus who had no sin in himself takes on the sinfulness of the whole world and becomes the greatest sinner of all. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (1 Corinthians 5:21) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. (Isaiah 53:6) Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, has our sins laid upon him so that we may be granted the gift of his righteousness.

In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. (Colossians 2)

Christian Baptism, however, was instituted for just the opposite purpose. Jesus is baptized into our sinfulness, while we are baptized into his righteousness. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. (Galatians 3:27)

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. (Romans 6)

Believers Baptism is an act of compliance given to us to show the world, as Jesus did, that we are of a faith like no other.

So is baptism a work of man or a work of God? Here are some verses that indicate that Baptism is God's work, not man's. Can you show me any verses that show that Baptism is a work of man, done as an act of compliance, a demonstration of one's faith?

And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Corinthians 6:11)

But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3)

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. (Ephesians 5)

Baptism is not even necessary to receive salvation from Jesus Christ.

Agreed, but one of the ways God has ordained to grant sinners his gift of salvation is through the water and the Word in Holy Baptism.

Baptism, which corresponds to [the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water], now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him. (1 Peter 3)

Baptism is merely a symbol of our faith.

I challenge you to provide scripture to back up this claim.

It is the confess and repent and belief in Jesus that consecrates the bond between God and Man.

Are you saying that these are things we must do in order to "consecrate the bond between God and Man?"

It is also that we must recognize Jesus as His only BEGOTTEN son in whom we believe.

Which can only happen AFTER God has acted to save us and given us his Holy Spirit.

Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2)[/quote][/quote]

 

[Tangible]

Can an infant repent?
If you do reply Yes, What is he repenting from?

Can you name a time in scripture when baptism occurred without repentance first taking place?

First tell me this: Is repentance something we do in and of ourselves, or is repentance, like faith in Christ, a gift given to us by God?

Hint: (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18)

 

[Tangible]

Baptizing a baby does NOTHING but get it wet...

Everyone is born a sinner. Even babies. But infant baptism does nothing but get the child wet. A baptism does NOT save a person, whether they are an infant or a full grown adult.

I challenge you to prove this from the Holy Scriptures.

 

[TVerinus]

When we enter the water we are, symbolically, being ...

This has always puzzled me concerning the nonsacramental position.
The one place where this concept of symbology and typology is clearly stated in scripture is 1 Peter 3:20,21. (ignoring the theological contortions to dismiss the plain words "nun sOzei baptisma", baptism now saves)

Here we have the plain grammatical witness. Baptism is the antitype. The antitype is the "real thing." The flood is the type, "symbol" pointing to the antitype. This is not theology. It is plain grammatical translation. It could be from any Greek writing of the times. It is what it says. "antitupon .. baptisma."

I always hesitate a little every time someone implies baptism is the symbol, "symbolically," because of these clear words from scripture that it is the real thing being pointed to symbolically. That`s what an antitype is.

We cannot say "when we enter the water we are symbolically," and be faithful to this scripture where "symbols" are mentioned.

 

[enigmadi]

I'm beginning to see infant baptism is biblical. Baptism is God imparting His salvation onto us & Salvation is a free gift given by Him according to His will. We can't earn it or choose it. Its given by Him. Given to the elect. So we bring our children to the means He gives that imparts His grace.

Baptism is not the means by which God imparts His salvation. We cannot "earn" salvation BUT we must choose to accept it through FAITH alone. Baptism is the public proclamation of a new life in Christ.

 

[EmethAlethia]

The methods and thoroughness we need to employ differ greatly depending on the goals. If we just want to believe infant baptism does something, or the converse, that it does nothing at all, then seeking out passages we can “use” to prove our beliefs true and all opposing beliefs to be false is the way to go. If we want truth we must gather EVERYTHING that might apply first, examine the context, flow of thought, meaning of words as they are used throughout the scriptures … and then see what fits with EVERYTHING that God said with all of the pieces cut straight … then we alter our beliefs and our lives to fit.

Along with seeking to gather ALL of the data that “might” apply, we should always apply interpretation methods designed to get to the truth. These include interpreting the unclear passages in the light of the clear, the less detailed passages in the light of the more detailed …. This also means that all our interpretations should always make God, His Word and His people 100% consistent in all they say and do and don’t say and don’t do. Those that want to ignore consistency are trying to sell you something. When in doubt ALWAYS assume everything is 100% consistent with everything else. (Yes, there are things that were only for certain time periods, were “completed” … and therefore are no longer in place, being done...) If these are not consistent, then there is no truth to find. If that is the case everything is whatever the reader wants to imagine it to be.

No, this is not the thorough study on the topic. This is a gloss over. If you want the thorough study, send me an e-mail. Anything beyond 20 pages is beyond the attention level of everyone but the most thorough truth seekers. If you want it … ask and I will e-mail it to you.

Assuming we want truth, and not just to prove our beliefs true, certain things need to be examined.

1. David and Bathsheba’s first child died … no baptism involved, certainly. No profession of faith, no repentance for the child, yet David said, “2Sa 12:23 "But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me." . The point being, unless you want to say the man who is after God’s own heart went to hell, we need to be willing to admit that infants at least, if they die, are going to be in heaven.
   
   
2. There are passages that hint at the concept of being of age and a person being responsible for their own actions being a key to this issue. The statement, “He is of age, ask him.”, in John 9:23, for example, hints that until a certain age children were the responsibility of their parents. After that age, they were responsible for themselves. Other decisions could not be made until the age of accountability was reached either. One could not be adopted until they reached that age, for example. It had to be a conscious rational decision by both the adopter and the adoptee. Which could not be done until that age was reached. And no, baptism had nothing to do with this “grace” being extended to those who had not yet attained that age. After that age was attained, the Jews threw a party a bat mitzva or a bar mitzva depending on whether your boy or girl was “of age” or not. The key point is that no legal or binding agreements could be made prior to that point and the parents were 100% responsible. After that age it was the adult child themselves who was responsible for all their own decisions and all decisions were legally binding.
   
   
3. Baptidzo = immersion. That’s all the word means. People “baptized” pots, pans, dishes … we baptize dogs, sometimes cats or other animals … but the word simply means … to immerse. So can infants be immersed? With care to keep their heads above water, I see no issues. Certainly baths are called for. We have a pool in the back yard. I get immersed, as do my family and friends on a regular basis. It has no special meaning, and it does nothing more than cool us off and provide some entertainment. No reason you can’t have fun with immersion. Some people prefer baths to showers as well. Have at it. Then we have the special cases of baptism in the bible…
   
   
4. John the Baptist is the most well known baptizer in all of scripture. Jesus, according to scripture, performed no baptisms, although His disciples did. (John 4:2) and no, this is not a contradiction of (John 3:22) but rather 4:2 is a clarification of 3:22. It should be noted that John’s Baptism was a baptism of repentance, and it had no effect if there wasn’t a corresponding change of life that went with it. (Mat. 3:8 and Luke 3:8) In other words, without the repentance (A change of mind that results in a habitual, ongoing change of life in accordance with the changed beliefs (Fruits), John’s baptism did nothing at all.
   
   Jesus commanded that baptism be done. Probably the most detailed verse pertaining to the topic is “Mat 28:19 "Having gone … make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to obey all that I commanded you…” Some important things in this passage are:
   

1. This is a command to ALL of the disciples. It outlines a process that is the very root of what Christians/Disciples are to exist for.
   

1. “Having gone” since you are going. Since no one would be able to stop you … This speaks to internal motivations … unstoppable ones. If you are a disciple whether or not you are going to “go” is not an issue. The wording in Greek implies this is a given, a fact … and the rest is what they, the DISCIPLES, are to focus on “since” they are going.
   

1. “Make Disciples”: Since Jesus was talking TO His disciples, and since the “Disciples were first called Christians in Antioch”, we do have an idea as to what a real Christian is. Look at Jesus disciples in scripture. The disciples were to make … disciples. But that is just the first step. ONCE YOU HAVE MADE A DISCIPLE, that’s the prerequisite, THEN
   

1. Baptize the disciples you have made in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Yes, this is a chain of events… what comes first, what comes second … the second part is that you take the disciples you just made, and you baptize them.
   
   
2. The third step is to teach the disciples you made, and that you just baptized, everything Jesus commanded them, and to OBEY ALL that He commanded them. This also includes the set of commands this is a part of… making disciples, baptizing disciples, and teaching disciples to obey ALL that He commanded them. In other words, Jesus true disciples DO exactly these things, in this order, today.
   

Act 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. 34 And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.



Nothing new here. Disciples were made as a result of sharing the word, believing … on an individual basis. Everybody in the household believed, ergo everyone was baptized as well. The rules for consistency mean that UNLESS THERE IS NO OTHER POSSIBILITY, we assume everything is 100% consistent. Since there is no indication of young children or infants EVER believing and being baptized, there is also no reason to “create” a doctrine that is contrary to Christ’s own commandment regarding the procedures He Himself gave. The rule is, when there is ANY doubt, assume everything is 100% consistent. As with the case in Acts 16, all the other accounts of “household” baptisms could be EXACTLY as Christ Himself commanded they be done. If they weren’t, and those disciples did not obey Christ and did not teach others to obey Christ, then … they weren’t Christians and their conversions and baptisms are null and void. There is no such thing as a habitually non-following follower of Christ. If you love Me you will … if you don’t you won’t.

Keep in mind that teaching as doctrines the precepts of men makes every bit of worship you can ever do completely worthless, and nullifying the commands of God, including the ones on making disciples, and then baptizing those disciples, and then teaching them to obey ALL God’s commands, including these, to hold fast to your traditions means that your righteousness does not exceed that of the Pharisees and Sadducees. Of course they were a brood of vipers and were sons of their father the Devil. And that means that you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

I have about 42 pages of notes, including every bible passage with the word baptidzo and all of the passages that relate the gospel and don’t even mention baptism in that gospel. Jesus made conversion, baptism, and learning to obey (3) separate tasks, and the (3) are listed separately from each other in most cases, with a number with belief alone, a few with belief and baptism and a few directed towards the change of life habitual focus of seeking to figure out and obey all that God commands, repent and believe … that results from the saving “belief” process. If anyone is interested in the thorough study, drop me an e-mail.

 

[All_In]

Baptism is not the means by which God imparts His salvation. We cannot "earn" salvation BUT we must choose to accept it through FAITH alone. Baptism is the public proclamation of a new life in Christ.

I said that. Its not earned. It's free. We can not do anything for it. Having faith, choosing faith is a work. Repenting, confessing are works. Salvation is free. Who better to give it to than a baby because we can't do anything to for it but be given it. The baby is given it.

 

[Theo Book]

This is even similar in spirit to how Elisha dealt with Naaman. Stubborn at first, the light go turned on for Naaman and he got zealous quickly. So much so that he was bringing in 4X4 pick up trucks to take out the holy ground they stood on.

Now ye'r bein' sillie - ther wan't no 4x4 p/u trux in them daz - Hadt'v bin T-Models.

 

[Theo Book]

Here is an excellent 11 minute video covering five of the most commonly given scriptural reasons infants should be baptized.

How can one "Baptize" a Baby?

 

[OpenYourBibles]

First tell me this: Is repentance something we do in and of ourselves, or is repentance, like faith in Christ, a gift given to us by God?

Hint: (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18)

If we could repentant "in and of ourselves" what purpose was there for Jesus to come and die?

If we are totally reliant on God to grant us repentance (while we do nothing), who is in danger of judgement, which is to say, the only reason I didn't "get" repentance is because God never gave it to me... that puts all of the blame on God, and I believe we all can agree God is above reproach.

John told the Pharisees to bring forth fruit (show actions) meet (to prove) for repentance. There are two sides to this coin, God grants us repentance based on the condition of our heart.

In Psalms 51 David cries out to God and declares a broken, spirit and a contrite heart God will not despise. Two characteristics of a heart searching for repentance.

Whether you agree with my statements here or not, I would like you now to reply to first set of questions, before this gets dragged off into the north forty:

Can an infant repent?
If you do reply Yes, What is he repenting from?

Can you name a time in scripture when baptism occurred without repentance first taking place?

Finally, if an infant is baptized, what is the purpose of that baptism, or better said what is being accomplished through that action?

 

[Kutte]

1. "Baptism is a work of God and some denominations view it as a work of man."

Then why baptize the infant? If it is God's work, there is no reason to soak the kid.

2. "Infants are sinner"

Incorrect, infants are born into a fallen state and need to be redeemed, but 1 John 3:4 reveals sin as anomia, being outside the law... breaking commandments. Infants have no ability to discern right from wrong so baptism will have no affect on this child.

3. "Infants can't believe"

True, they can't. Belief is not just being firmly convinced in your mind, it is act on what you are convinced on. Not only can't an infant do this... but even if they could "believe" they don't know right from wrong, they have to be taught that as they grow.

4. "Household baptism"

His use of "households" here is beyond the scope of the intent. This is his definition being used on the text.

5. "God includes children in His promises"

True... but that does't mean they get baptized.

My position is simple... if you want to baptize your infant, go ahead. If you think that action remits their sins when they don't even know right from wrong... well... you really can't prove that. At some point that infant will become a young adult and they will have to choose whom they will follow, God or the world. And if God, they will get baptized because now it has a significance in meaning it couldn't have had as an infant who knew nothing but milk and sleep were coming at some point.

Ken,

Great Post.
Baptizing an infant doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It is only a religious ritual. It should be up to a grownup to decide for or against baptism.

God bless

 

[Winken]

Water baptism originated as a ritual in Judaism. One was bathed in preparation for the coming Messiah, a cleanliness matter. That's it. Immersion or sprinkling in/with water does not embrace eternal security in Jesus as Savior no matter when it is done. If one wants to do it at any age, go for it. If your assembly requires it for membership, go for it. Just remember that it has no eternal security function.

 

[narnia59]

1. "Baptism is a work of God and some denominations view it as a work of man."


Then why baptize the infant? If it is God's work, there is no reason to soak the kid.

Precisely because it is a work of God and infants should not be denied the gift of faith. We are baptized “into” Christ as Scripture says. If infants and children are denied coming into the body of Christ, then Christianity is a religion that excludes children.

2. "Infants are sinner"


Incorrect, infants are born into a fallen state and need to be redeemed, but 1 John 3:4 reveals sin as anomia, being outside the law... breaking commandments. Infants have no ability to discern right from wrong so baptism will have no affect on this child.

I would like to know how you know that infants can’t discern right from wrong? Just because we don’t have long term memory storage working at that time and can’t remember making decisions doesn’t mean we don’t. Infants learn to manipulate their environment pretty quickly and if allowed to do so can often become little monsters before they walk. Does a 2 year old throwing a tantrum not know at some level it is wrong?

3. "Infants can't believe"


True, they can't. Belief is not just being firmly convinced in your mind, it is act on what you are convinced on. Not only can't an infant do this... but even if they could "believe" they don't know right from wrong, they have to be taught that as they grow.

What the video says is that infants can indeed have faith, and he is correct. You equate faith to an intellectual decision rather than a gift from God, which is how Scripture refers to it. The reality is that for most people who receive faith as adults, the intellect works against them. They receive the gift of faith in spite of their intellect, not because of it. We are to “receive” the kingdom of God as a little child according to Christ (Mark 10:15) and according to you, little children can’t receive the kingdom of God at all because they have to be “firmly convinced in their mind”.


Christ knows the heart of infants and his words are clear:

Matthew 11:25-26 25 At that time Jesus said, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and the intelligent and have revealed them to infants; 26 yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.

4. "Household baptism"


His use of "households" here is beyond the scope of the intent. This is his definition being used on the text.

Not really. Consider the baptism of the household of Lydia (Acts 16). The Scripture says the Lord opened her heart to what Paul said, not the heart of all who were in her household. But her entire household was baptized based upon her faith.


People in Scripture even receive forgiveness of their sins based upon the faith of others (Mark 2:1-5). Children are under the spiritual dominion of their parents and their parents can choose baptism for them and the gift of faith they receive.

We also never see in Scripture a child raised in a Christian home by Christian parents coming forward for Baptism. We never see what would be a reasonable discussion about when they would be ‘ready’ for that. Why not?

5. "God includes children in His promises"


True... but that does't mean they get baptized.


My position is simple... if you want to baptize your infant, go ahead. If you think that action remits their sins when they don't even know right from wrong... well... you really can't prove that. At some point that infant will become a young adult and they will have to choose whom they will follow, God or the world. And if God, they will get baptized because now it has a significance in meaning it couldn't have had as an infant who knew nothing but milk and sleep were coming at some point.

They should be if you want them to be part of the body of Christ.

 

[Theo Book]

Everyone is born a sinner. Even babies.

Really?

Explain -
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Then explain Noah, Daniel, and Job,
Ezek 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the
Lord GOD. 15 If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts: 16 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate. 17 Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it: 18 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves. 19 Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast: 20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

Then explain -
"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:"(Rom 2:14)

But infant baptism does nothing but get the child wet. A baptism does NOT save a person, whether they are an infant or a full grown adult. Baptism is a way for people to show the world their commitment to The Lord AFTER they have accepted him into their hearts. Saying that a baby is born a sinner is not awful because it is true. But infants that die as infants do not go to hell. Someone who dies before they can comprehend the scripture or before they understand the moral differences of right and wrong are, I, as a baptist believe, saved by the grace of God. Infants, young children, the mentally unable, etc. Anyone that is unable to understand the Bible or it's moral obligations has a pass from God. Since they are unable to understand it in this life, God saves them and brings them into his. That is my two cents on that subject

 

[Theo Book]

Everyone is born a sinner. Even babies.

Really?

Explain -
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Then explain Noah, Daniel, and Job,
Ezek 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the
Lord GOD. 15 If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts: 16 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate. 17 Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it: 18 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves. 19 Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast: 20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

Then explain -
"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:"(Rom 2:14)


But infant baptism does nothing but get the child wet. A baptism does NOT save a person, whether they are an infant or a full grown adult. Baptism is a way for people to show the world their commitment to The Lord AFTER they have accepted him into their hearts. Saying that a baby is born a sinner is not awful because it is true. But infants that die as infants do not go to hell. Someone who dies before they can comprehend the scripture or before they understand the moral differences of right and wrong are, I, as a baptist believe, saved by the grace of God. Infants, young children, the mentally unable, etc. Anyone that is unable to understand the Bible or it's moral obligations has a pass from God. Since they are unable to understand it in this life, God saves them and brings them into his. That is my two cents on that subject[/QUOTE]

 

[Theo Book]

Everyone is born a sinner. Even babies.

Really?

Explain -
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Then explain Noah, Daniel, and Job,
Ezek 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the
Lord GOD. 15 If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts: 16 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate. 17 Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it: 18 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves. 19 Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast: 20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

Then explain -
"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:"(Rom 2:14)

But infant baptism does nothing but get the child wet. A baptism does NOT save a person, whether they are an infant or a full grown adult. Baptism is a way for people to show the world their commitment to The Lord AFTER they have accepted him into their hearts. Saying that a baby is born a sinner is not awful because it is true. But infants that die as infants do not go to hell. Someone who dies before they can comprehend the scripture or before they understand the moral differences of right and wrong are, I, as a baptist believe, saved by the grace of God. Infants, young children, the mentally unable, etc. Anyone that is unable to understand the Bible or it's moral obligations has a pass from God. Since they are unable to understand it in this life, God saves them and brings them into his. That is my two cents on that subject

 

[narnia59]

But infant baptism does nothing but get the child wet. A baptism does NOT save a person, whether they are an infant or a full grown adult. Baptism is a way for people to show the world their commitment to The Lord AFTER they have accepted him into their hearts.

This is what the Bible says about baptism in relation to a person's salvation:

Mark 16:15-16 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Acts 2:37-38 37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit


Acts 22:12-16 12 “And one Anani′as, a devout man according to the law, well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, 13 came to me, and standing by me said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight.’ And in that very hour I received my sight and saw him. 14 And he said, ‘The God of our fathers appointed you to know his will, to see the Just One and to hear a voice from his mouth; 15 for you will be a witness for him to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’ (note that Paul was already a believer here but baptism was required to wash away his sins)


1 Peter 3:18-21 18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

 

[patdee]

Here is an excellent 11 minute video covering five of the most commonly given scriptural reasons infants should be baptized.

If infant baptism; or ANY baptism is necessary to become part of Jesus "Kingdom" (saved), I have a MAJOR problem with the following:

1. When and where did the "thief on the cross" (that accepted Jesus) get baptized in liquid water?

2. A person is on their death bed; and that person dies one second AFTER they surrendered to Jesus; how and where did that person get baptized in liquid water?

3. A baby JUST born dies. When and how can that baby get baptized in liquid water?

4. A soldier in battle accepts Jesus; and instantly a rocket propelled grenade blows his head off (it happens!; when and how would that soldier get baptized in liquid water?

4. A young child accepts Jesus when the preacher gives the altar call; then on the way home that child is hit by a car and is killed (It happens!), how and when can that child get baptized in liquid water?

5. A baby is just born; the parents call for a priest or preacher to baptize their baby, etc; and before the clergyman can get there, the baby dies (it happens!); how and when can that baby get baptized in liquid water?

6. Say you are an atheist at ANY age; but you are touched by watching a Billy Graham TV crusade; and you surrender and cry out to Jesus; but sadly you instantly die of a heart attack (it happens!); when and how can you be baptized in liquid water?

7. When Jesus was preaching to the multitudes on many occasions; and say a few of them died (it happens) BEFORE John the Baptist; or a disciple which had not been chosen yet; could baptize them in liquid water; how and when could they be baptized in liquid water?

8. Paul is preaching in Corinth and several "jews" accept Jesus; but one of them dies BEFORE baptism (it happens) in liquid water can be arranged; how and when can that person be baptized in liquid water?

9. A Pentecostal is dragged down the aisle of his church by his parents to get him "saved"; and the Pentecostal accepts Jesus crying uncontrollably; But the Baptism is not scheduled for 2 weeks hence (common practice in churches ALL over the world); and sadly the Pentecostal dies before the baptismal can take place; how and when can that Pentecostal get baptized in liquid water?

10. Etc, etc, and ETC!

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with (liquid) water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

WHAT is that verse saying? Think about it! What does it really mean? Read that verse again and then ask yourself ALL of the questions above? Think about it. Does Mathew 3:11 answer completely ALL of the questions above? Huh?

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

What is Jesus really saying? Huh? WHAT was the "water" representing with Jesus' statement; versus the water that would last for "eternal life"? Could it be that Jesus was saying, "ONCE you are baptized by the Holy Spirit that baptizes your soul and circumcises your heart the moment I realizes you will humble yourself and believe in me; "liquid" water baptism becomes superfluous; REGARDLESS of what many in the bible will write"?

Think about it

In any case, may Jesus richly bless you and yours always.

 

[patdee]

Here is an excellent 11 minute video covering five of the most commonly given scriptural reasons infants should be baptized.

If infant baptism; or ANY baptism is necessary to become part of Jesus "Kingdom" (saved), I have a MAJOR problem with the following:

1. When and where did the "thief on the cross" (that accepted Jesus) get baptized in liquid water?

2. A person is on their death bed; and that person dies one second AFTER they surrendered to Jesus; how and where did that person get baptized in liquid water?

3. A baby JUST born dies. When and how can that baby get baptized in liquid water?

4. A soldier in battle accepts Jesus; and instantly a rocket propelled grenade blows his head off (it happens!; when and how would that soldier get baptized in liquid water?

4. A young child accepts Jesus when the preacher gives the altar call; then on the way home that child is hit by a car and is killed (It happens!), how and when can that child get baptized in liquid water?

5. A baby is just born; the parents call for a priest or preacher to baptize their baby, etc; and before the clergyman can get there, the baby dies (it happens!); how and when can that baby get baptized in liquid water?

6. Say you are an atheist at ANY age; but you are touched by watching a Billy Graham TV crusade; and you surrender and cry out to Jesus; but sadly you instantly die of a heart attack (it happens!); when and how can you be baptized in liquid water?

7. When Jesus was preaching to the multitudes on many occasions; and say a few of them died (it happens) BEFORE John the Baptist; or a disciple which had not been chosen yet; could baptize them in liquid water; how and when could they be baptized in liquid water?

8. Paul is preaching in Corinth and several "jews" accept Jesus; but one of them dies BEFORE baptism (it happens) in liquid water can be arranged; how and when can that person be baptized in liquid water?

9. A Pentecostal is dragged down the aisle of his church by his parents to get him "saved"; and the Pentecostal accepts Jesus crying uncontrollably; But the Baptism is not scheduled for 2 weeks hence (common practice in churches ALL over the world); and sadly the Pentecostal dies before the baptismal can take place; how and when can that Pentecostal get baptized in liquid water?

10. Etc, etc, and ETC!

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with (liquid) water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

WHAT is that verse saying? Think about it! What does it really mean? Read that verse again and then ask yourself ALL of the questions above? Think about it. Does Mathew 3:11 answer completely ALL of the questions above? Huh?

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

What is Jesus really saying? Huh? WHAT was the "water" representing with Jesus' statement; versus the water that would last for "eternal life"? Could it be that Jesus was saying, "ONCE you are baptized by the Holy Spirit that baptizes your soul and circumcises your heart the moment I realizes you will humble yourself and believe in me; "liquid" water baptism becomes superfluous; REGARDLESS of what many in the bible will write"?

Think about it

In any case, may Jesus richly bless you and yours always.