Madagascar and Australia, a question for creationists.

[USincognito]

Just like they did with soft tissue, which only lasts thousands of years, if that.

Unless it's preserved by something. In this case the collagen fragments were preserved by heme from the blood. But you've been told that repeatedly so it's an exercise in dishonesty for you to act like you're unaware of it.

 

[USincognito]

yep. exactly. even we have papers that show us that a dna cant survive milions of years.

Since no DNA was discovered on MOR-1125, not sure what you comment has to do with anything.

 

[miamited]

Hi stamp,

You responded to my post:

Don't you? how do you think things would be for you had you been born in America into a Muslim family? would you think you had a false religion?

I suppose I'd be finding places to face Mecca three times a day to pray and I'd likely belong to a mosque and my wife would wear a covering over her head all the time because I'd believe that I was practicing true religion. But, I don't know if one day someone wouldn't share the gospel with me and I'd come to the knowledge of the real truth. There are muslims who come to the realization of the truth and there are muslims who draw their dying breath praising a non-existent deity of their own imaginings and training and learning. As I said, there have been false religions nearly since the beginning.

They are all false, do you have any evidence that they are not? how many of them do you believe? all of them or just one of them?

Just one. However, you, as an agnostic aren't going to believe that because you don't think anything can really be known about a god. That's fine, but it isn't true, as I understand the Scriptures. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob can be known through His word, His Spirit and His Son. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the only God who has proven to us, through the death and resurrection of His Son, that He can do what He has promised to do for those who will believe.

Now again, I fully appreciate that you don't see or understand things this way. That's fine, but that's my understanding of what I read in the Scriptures.

How can they?

Well, that's exactly what I'm explaining to you. See, as an agnostic, you don't think that anything can be known of God. I don't agree with that understanding of yours. I believe that a lot can be known about God. Many things He has told us in His testimony of Himself as to who He is and all that He has done. However, this issue of 'how' he selects those who Jesus said could only come to him by the calling of the Father and those that God elected to do the work that they have done for Him upon the earth, that part about God is not known because God has not made that knowledge known to us.

It's more likely that men know their own minds.

Well, I think I know my own mind pretty well, but it's not the mind that God is after...it's the heart. Most men have no real idea how utterly depraved and wicked their hearts are without God. But again, you're not likely to understand or agree with that. You're one who lives by proof. The only things you're going to believe solidly about spiritual things, if anythings at all, are only those things that you can touch and feel and see proven by formulas and scientific methods. I'm not. I'm a man who's perfectly satisfied that God has told me the truth and that He has provided sufficient proof for my mind and heart that He is there and He loves me and done all the things that He has told me in His word that He has done. I'm a man who does believe that 2,000 years ago after a man named Jesus was crucified on a cross like thousands of Roman criminals of his day, that he was raised from the dead and that he was seen by over 500 people in the next few weeks and that he did go back to visit with his disciples and comforted them and gave them great joy when he appeared alive to them. I believe that such an event really did happen in real time upon the earth among real people living real lives and it is that belief and that belief alone that truly sets faith in Jesus and his Father apart from all the other religions.

They all have great moral messages, for the most part. They all have determined followers. But they don't any of them have the testimony so well supported by so many diverse people, that some adherent came back to life after they drew their last breath on the earth and was witnessed by many just walking about like a regular guy.

Do you think that everyone who does not believe in your God is bitter? I'm not and neither is anyone I know.

If what the Scriptures say is true, you will one day.

I do in fact feel quite lucky that I was not born into a religious family.

I suppose it's good that you feel that way.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[pat34lee]

Ow the horror......
Changing explanations/understanding to fit new discoveries??? How dare they!!!

Citation needed.

In science, yes, it is a horror. It's called dogma, and prevents actual science from progressing.

"scientists had thought proteins that make up soft tissue should degrade in less than 1 million years in the best of conditions. In most cases, microbes feast on a dead animal's soft tissue, destroying it within weeks."
Controversial T. Rex Soft Tissue Find Finally Explained

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

but how this sequence looks like? give me an example.

A mammal with genes to build feathers.
A reptile with genes to build hair.
An amphibian with mammary glands.
A reptile with 3 inner ear bones.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

HI CD,

Just so long as you understand that is only an understanding. We don't honestly know 'how' exactly God 'led men by the Holy Spirit' to write the words that were written. Many believe, as I do, that it was practically like dictation only a bit more subtle than just saying, "Repeat word for word what I tell you."

The Quran was a literal dictation. Gabriel appeared to Mohammed and dictated the Quran word for word. Or so the story goes.

Each on was able to show their own character within their writing, but the actual words may well have been pretty well guided by this leading of the Holy Spirit.

They could also have been invented out of thin air, just like how you likely believe all other religious scriptures originated which isn't compatible with what you happen to believe...

Remember, that Jesus knew long before it ever happened that Judas would betray him

Or so the story says.

He created Judas to betray His Son. He raised up Nebuchadnezzar to take Israel captive. He hardened Pharaoh's heart that His great glory and power could be displayed to His people.

So, he violated the free will of these people?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There are certainly now, and have always been, false religions circulating in the world.

How do you differentiate the false ones from the true ones.
How do you know that you're not following one of the false ones?

I do thank God that I wasn't enamored of any of them

I bet muslims thank allah for the same thing.

I've always believed it to be a matter of God knowing the heart of any man. God can see the tender, seeking heart and God can see the hardened, bitter one.

Right, right.... because when someone makes an intellectual case for how (s)he isn't convinced by fantastical stories with no supportive evidence, that means that that person is "bitter".

Uhu.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In science, yes, it is a horror.

Learning is a "horror"?

It's called dogma, and prevents actual science from progressing.

Err, no... that would be the very opposite of what you said.
Dogma and not progressing is what happens when you do NOT alter explanations in light of new evidence/data and actually actively refuse to do so.

"scientists had thought proteins that make up soft tissue should degrade in less than 1 million years in the best of conditions. In most cases, microbes feast on a dead animal's soft tissue, destroying it within weeks."
Controversial T. Rex Soft Tissue Find Finally Explained

And when new data shows your previously accepted ideas are false... you change your ideas, instead of assuming that the new data is false.

 

[The Stamp]

I suppose I'd be finding places to face Mecca three times a day to pray and I'd likely belong to a mosque and my wife would wear a covering over her head all the time because I'd believe that I was practicing true religion.

Exactly

But I don't know if one day someone wouldn't share the gospel with me and I'd come to the knowledge of the real truth.

Wouldn't you already think you had the truth? This is the part that tells me you have a problem that goes deeper than religion.

There are muslims who come to the realization of the truth and there are muslims who draw their dying breath praising a non-existent deity of their own imaginings and training and learning.

As do Christians with their non-existent deity.

As I said, there have been false religions nearly since the beginning.

All religions are false to people who do not believe them, religious truth like beauty is in the mind of the believer, when the brain dies beliefs and hopes disappear like smoke in the wind.
If you want to know what it's like to be dead just cast your mind back to April 3rd 1823, what were you doing on that day?

 

[The Stamp]

What were you introduced to first?

What were you?

 

[The Stamp]

so we cant test evolution then. therefore its not a scientific theory.

That's exactly right, having cleared that up let's all talk about your God.

 

[AV1611VET]

What were you?

Either American Baptist or General Baptist ... I can't remember.

Your turn.

 

[The Stamp]

Either American Baptist or General Baptist ... I can't remember.

Your turn.

Which one did they decide you should have?

 

[AV1611VET]

Which one did they decide you should have?

What? they who?

You want my background?

Here it is:

1. Dad made us go to church until we were 16; that church was either American or General Baptist -- I can't remember.
2. At 16 I dropped out and became an agnostic until the age of 27.
3. At 27 I was led to Jesus Christ by a bus worker from a local fundamental independent Baptist church.
4. I've been there ever since: and I'll be 63 in May.

Your turn.

 

[miamited]

Hi all,

Well, this discussion has gotten pretty far afield from the OP and so I'm bowing out. I think I've answered all the questions sufficiently.

TM, stamp and the others who have repeatedly questioned me with the 'how do you know?', 'what proof do you have?', queries, I can only offer the following. I'm sure it will be considered as the great delusion of my mind and so it shall be considered by others:

They all have great moral messages, for the most part. They all have determined followers. But they don't any of them have the testimony so well supported by so many diverse people, that some adherent came back to life after they drew their last breath on the earth and was witnessed by many just walking about like a regular guy. Likewise, there are none with the specificity and breadth of prophecy that the Scriptures detail.

That's all I can offer and it may be considered or discarded as any individual personally chooses to do.

God bless you all,
In Christ, ted

 

[xianghua]

Engaging in flights of fancy is not the same as addressing the actual evidence. That actual evidence shows that no such violations of the nested hierarchy exist.

not realy. we indeed found cases of similar genes in far sepcies but not between some of the species between them. in this case evolutionery biologists "solve" this by gene loss. and this is another proof that evolution isnt a scientific theory.

 

[xianghua]

A mammal with genes to build feathers.
A reptile with genes to build hair.
An amphibian with mammary glands.
A reptile with 3 inner ear bones.

what about a snail that can use photosynthesis?

 

[xianghua]

That's exactly right, having cleared that up let's all talk about your God.

what are you want to discuss about?

 

[The Stamp]

what are you want to discuss about?

As we all know everything needs a creator please tell me who created your God?

 

[AV1611VET]

As we all know everything needs a creator please tell me who created your God?

God is self-existent.