Not quite religion, but then what?

[Robban]

I don't think that gives me greater access to God. Enlighten me as to why women have greater connectedness to God.

One can go to great lengths with explanations of why but,
I am no writer, I shall try to find something short,
but it will not happen in a coffee break, so to speak.

 

[Galatea]

One can go to great lengths with explanations of why but,
I am no writer, I shall try to find something short,
but it will not happen in a coffee break, so to speak.

Well, I will look forward to reading it. I'm skeptical, but would like to read it.

 

[RDKirk]

Religion to me is "doing something". So, anything you "do" for acceptance to a Higher Power is religion. This is a simplistic defintion to be sure. This is why Christians are usually very particular about saying we do NOT have a religion, we have a relationship, because we can not do anything for acceptance. So, even burning incense, meditating, trying to empty your mind of bad thoughts- even if this doesn't look like religion, it's religion because you are "doing something" in order to get in touch with a Higher Power or powers. Religion is a system, it doesn't matter if the system is traditional or one you come up with yourself.

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being. -- James 1

The bible says Christianity is a religion. It just involves an action that most people don't want to do--taking care of others who need help. Most people would rather have a ritual that doesn't require such messy personal relationships.

But if we say we love God and don’t love each other, we are liars. We cannot see God. So how can we love God, if we don’t love the people we can see? -- 1 John 4

And having failed to maintain that messy personal relationship with the people who need help, we have also failed in having a relationship with God.

 

[Robban]

Well, I will look forward to reading it. I'm skeptical, but would like to read it.

Well,
you have heard of 613 commandments/mitzvahs,

they are really Connections,

Example,
a rope with ten strands is stronger than a rope with two strands,
there will be a stronger Connection.

If someone were to convert there would be 616, one would be circumscision, but not for females because they are already connected, (first Connection,)

 

[Jack of Spades]

But that's the thing I'm trying to tell you- there is no "tuning in" necessary with God. If something is required, it becomes religion. This is not to say all rites and rituals are wrong, I think they are wrong if it is felt to be required. If I get on my knees to pray because I want to, that is different from me believing God requires me to fall on my knees in prayer.

I know what you're trying to say, I just believe that it's a rhetorical marketing trick and not the actual reality and that's why I am hesitant to believe it.

I am not completely conversant with religions, but don't they require things done? Rituals and works?

I can't really speak for all religions, as I know only couple and there are very many. With the ones I know (Pagan-related) the emphasis is usually more on the intention, than the actual rituals performed. Like f.e. one can make an offering to a deity, but it's not really what counts, the intention does.

 

[dlamberth]

I don't think that gives me greater access to God. Enlighten me as to why women have greater connectedness to God.

In my experience, it's not that women have greater access to the Divine. It's more that they are generally more able to be open to that Divine Presence than are men. Why, I don't really know. My guess though is that motherhood helps to open those channels of compassion, empathy and service, all of which also helps to open ones heart to a better awareness and experience of the Sacred. But this is only what I've observed in life and I claim no special knowledge on this.

 

[dlamberth]

I am not a mother, so that does not apply to my situation.

The stuff of motherhood is in your DNA.

 

[Galatea]

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being. -- James 1

The bible says Christianity is a religion. It just involves an action that most people don't want to do--taking care of others who need help. Most people would rather have a ritual that doesn't require such messy personal relationships.

But if we say we love God and don’t love each other, we are liars. We cannot see God. So how can we love God, if we don’t love the people we can see? -- 1 John 4

And having failed to maintain that messy personal relationship with the people who need help, we have also failed in having a relationship with God.

But there ARE Christians who fall from grace, who are out of God's will. They can be saved, but not bearing fruit. You can be astray, but not forsaken. When Jesus went to go get that sheep that was lost, He didn't go get a lamb that was not His own. It already belonged to Him. "I will NEVER leave thee, nor forsake thee."

Religion is doing, faith is believing.

I don't mean to say Christians WON'T love. If people are saved, they want to love others and thus love God, but sometimes, we fail.

 

[Galatea]

I know what you're trying to say, I just believe that it's a rhetorical marketing trick and not the actual reality and that's why I am hesitant to believe it.



I can't really speak for all religions, as I know only couple and there are very many. With the ones I know (Pagan-related) the emphasis is usually more on the intention, than the actual rituals performed. Like f.e. one can make an offering to a deity, but it's not really what counts, the intention does.

I know what the reality is for myself, and it is not marketing, nor am I being disingenuous with you. I know that I can talk to Him at any time, anywhere, and about anything.

What is the intention behind giving a deity an offering?

 

[Galatea]

Well,
you have heard of 613 commandments/mitzvahs,

they are really Connections,

Example,
a rope with ten strands is stronger than a rope with two strands,
there will be a stronger Connection.

If someone were to convert there would be 616, one would be circumscision, but not for females because they are already connected, (first Connection,)

I'm not really acquainted with Judaism, are there not ways in which men are closer to God in your beliefs? I know men wear prayer shawls, and phylacteries. Would this not be closer to God?

 

[Galatea]

In my experience, it's not that women have greater access to the Divine. It's more that they are generally more able to be open to that Divine Presence than are men. Why, I don't really know. My guess though is that motherhood helps to open those channels of compassion, empathy and service, all of which also helps to open ones heart to a better awareness and experience of the Sacred. But this is only what I've observed in life and I claim no special knowledge on this.

I don't know. I've known some men who are very close to God, and when people are sick, they are called to come pray. My grandfather is one. Whenever anyone is sick, they call him to come pray.

 

[Robban]

I'm not really acquainted with Judaism, are there not ways in which men are closer to God in your beliefs? I know men wear prayer shawls, and phylacteries. Would this not be closer to God?

Yes, but most important is the direction one is moving.

Upward, it is not possible today to fulfill all 613, but if it were, it would not be such a good place to be maybe,

My reasoning is this;

A ladder with 613 rungs,
if say I am on rung 10 today
and say a month from now I'm on rung 11, I'm moving in the right direction.

If it were possible for me to be on rung 613, the only direction left to move would be downward,

not a good direction to be moving in.

Anyway this is only example form.

It is not a burden by doing one it gives the want to do another.

Most likely this is uninteresting for
most anyhow.

 

[dlamberth]

I don't know. I've known some men who are very close to God, and when people are sick, they are called to come pray. My grandfather is one. Whenever anyone is sick, they call him to come pray.

And I know some women who are very far from God. We are all at different levels as for as being able to open to the Divine. But I think that "generally" it's easier for women to open to the Divine presence than it is for men.

 

[Galatea]

Yes, but most important is the direction one is moving.

Upward, it is not possible today to fulfill all 613, but if it were, it would not be such a good place to be maybe,

My reasoning is this;

A ladder with 613 rungs,
if say I am on rung 10 today
and say a month from now I'm on rung 11, I'm moving in the right direction.

If it were possible for me to be on rung 613, the only direction left to move would be downward,

not a good direction to be moving in.

Anyway this is only example form.

It is not a burden by doing one it gives the want to do another.

Most likely this is uninteresting for
most anyhow.

But could you not stay on the uppermost rung? Must you move either up or down? Is there not a maintaining?

 

[MehGuy]

And I know some women who are very far from God. We are all at different levels as for as being able to open to the Divine. But I think that "generally" it's easier for women to open to the Divine presence than it is for men.

If women generally have a higher emotional empathy capacity, I'm apt to agree with you.

 

[Jack of Spades]

I know what the reality is for myself, and it is not marketing, nor am I being disingenuous with you. I know that I can talk to Him at any time, anywhere, and about anything.

Sorry. I was being rude there. I don't doubt that you're well intended and you're just expressing it the way you understand it.

What I was referring to, was that there is a culture of 'double talk' in Christianity, when Christians want to convert you, it's all easy and free, just about accepting Jesus and no demands or works ever. But if someone takes the bait, then anyways a list of gazillion demands to be a 'real Christian' etc. starts to miraculously appear and this never fails to happen, it's the same story every time.

Having seen this, it just feels like there is a clear misleading going on with the message of what it is about, depending on what the situation is.

What is the intention behind giving a deity an offering?

It's usually called "honoring" the deity, so it might not be for any particular reason, just to well, honor the deity out of respect etc. or for some particular agenda, like to please the deity, to make a contact with it, or to ask for something, or it can be just something that people feel like doing out of a tradition.

 

[Galatea]

And I know some women who are very far from God. We are all at different levels as for as being able to open to the Divine. But I think that "generally" it's easier for women to open to the Divine presence than it is for men.

I don't know. I don't think there are generalities to make for men or women. I think women can tend to be more religious, but I don't think that is necessarily a sign of being closer to God. But, there is something about becoming a mother that causes women to want to make sure their children are brought up in church.

 

[Robban]

But could you not stay on the uppermost rung? Must you move either up or down? Is there not a maintaining?

I do not know, I have never been there.

 

[MehGuy]

At the very least, I'd call it soft religion.

 

[Galatea]

Sorry. I was being rude there. I don't doubt that you're well intended and you're just expressing it the way you understand it.

What I was referring to, was that there is a culture of 'double talk' in Christianity, when Christians want to convert you, it's all easy and free, just about accepting Jesus and no demands or works ever. But if someone takes the bait, then anyways a list of gazillion demands to be a 'real Christian' etc. starts to miraculously appear and this never fails to happen, it's the same story every time.

Having seen this, it just feels like there is a clear misleading going on with the message of what it is about, depending on what the situation is.



It's usually called "honoring" the deity, so it might not be for any particular reason, just to well, honor the deity out of respect etc. or for some particular agenda, like to please the deity, to make a contact with it, or to ask for something, or it can be just something that people feel like doing out of a tradition.

I won't deny I'd like to persuade you to become a Christian. But you will NEVER hear from me a list of things to do after being converted. There are people who are and will be in Heaven who are saved as by fire, who do no more or no less than get saved. I'll probably get grief for writing this, but I don't care, it is the truth. There are going to be a lot of people there who will be a surprise to others who think you have to be good.

The sacrifices sound like religion, to me. Pleasing the deity, making contact, asking something- it sounds like religion.