"Women rule over them": Should Hillary Clinton be President?

[Winken]

"O My people! Their oppressors [n]are children,
And women rule over them.
O My people! Those who guide you lead you astray
And confuse the direction of your paths." Isa. 3:12 (NASB)

"12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first [h]created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression." 1 Tim. 2:12-14 (NASB)

What do you think?

Hillary should never be president.

 

[Winken]

Why do you believe that the Bible is a product of its times?

I don't.

 

[Winken]

Ah. So you don't believe the Bible is from God, then?

I do believe it.

 

[Winken]

That's not what I asked. Anyways, even if there's not a "perfect version," can't we all get the point?

Faith comes by hearing (the Holy Spirit), and hearing by the Word of God.

 

[Achilles6129]

Well, for Sepia and Jack, it's always seemed to me that we either accept the entire Bible or reject the entire Bible. I don't see how we can choose which parts to believe in without compromising the Bible's integrity.

 

[Winken]

So you believe that the God of the Bible is evil, then?

No.

 

[Winken]

The "God of the Bible" is a product of human understanding. If this God seems evil then it is not God who is to blame.

The Bible is God-breathed. It is the product of Divine Revelation. The "God of the Bible," if addressed in a book that seeks to pronounce Him evil, is in and of itself evil.

 

[Winken]

Well, it's a little bit difficult to understand what you guys believe. Do you just pick which parts to accept and reject, then?

No.

 

[Winken]

In the Bible we read of some of the very worst of human behaviour ---- genocide, slavery, xenophobia, misogyny, patriarchy and homophobia. I do not believe that any of these reflect God's will. Rather, they reflect cultural standards of far away and long ago. They are not prescriptive for us today.

I approach the Bible like a prospector would approach his claim. I am prepared to spend a lot of time and effort searching for the shining nuggets of wisdom and insight but I am also prepared to have to shift a lot of rubble in order to find them.

Yes... they are not prescriptive for us today. We worship and observe today under the Christian Covenant, not the Hebrew Bible. There is no rubble, only the revelation of God's message since the Cross.

 

[redleghunter]

The "God of the Bible" is a product of human understanding. If this God seems evil then it is not God who is to blame.

Where do you derive your knowledge of God and His laws?

 

[redleghunter]

I don't believe that any version of it is infallible or perfectly inspired, no.

If so where do you derive your knowledge of God and His revealed truth?

 

[redleghunter]

If it's evil, misguided, or plain wrong, yeah. If it's poetic or mythic, I'll enjoy the story, and I'll learn what I can from it, but I'm not going to let it interfere with my knowledge of the world. There were no talking snakes or magic trees, for instance.

How do you determine what is evil and what is good? What transcendent standard do you use to test these truth claims?

 

[redleghunter]

In the Bible we read of some of the very worst of human behaviour ---- genocide, slavery, xenophobia, misogyny, patriarchy and homophobia. I do not believe that any of these reflect God's will. Rather, they reflect cultural standards of far away and long ago. They are not prescriptive for us today.

I approach the Bible like a prospector would approach his claim. I am prepared to spend a lot of time and effort searching for the shining nuggets of wisdom and insight but I am also prepared to have to shift a lot of rubble in order to find them.

Is God Holy? If so, then what transcendent standard do you go to, to test truth claims?

 

[redleghunter]

Christians do not answer in the negative to your question. You're aware of this. I am as well. Shall we move forward in the knowledge of Christ and God who calls whom he will to his church?

In this particular election come November the woman is unfit to lead. She's demonstrated that in lesser offices entrusted to her. And there is absolutely no rational capacity present in the argument that despite that record of unfitness in the lesser, that she would be more fit and able for the higher office.

Thank you for keeping the thread on topic

Deborah a godly woman led men in combat as a judge of Israel. We have evidence that God will call women to leadership roles. Margaret Thatcher was a good leader.

I believe if a woman is the best candidate for America as Deborah was in her time, they should be serious contenders.

 

[Papias]

What do you think?

Achilles, did you vote for the McCain/Palin ticket?

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Thank you for keeping the thread on topic

Deborah a godly woman led men in combat as a judge of Israel. We have evidence that God will call women to leadership roles. Margaret Thatcher was a good leader.

I believe if a woman is the best candidate for America as Deborah was in her time, they should be serious contenders.

Bless you for recalling Deborah to this discussion.
I find it a bit disconcerting being female myself when I happen on male Christians who argue that God discriminates against the genders he created to be equal in his sight. Each have their own abilities to make the other whole and to serve God completely.
Such blasphemy as I reckon it ignores the passages in the new testament that tell us of those women that went forward and ministered the word of Christ. And some were even daughters of the Apostles.
So to hear that same blasphemous talk argue women aren't fit to lead a nation is further even more an insult to God and His plans. Being we're told those who lead us in God's name are put in that position of leadership by His will and His plan for the people of the nation He oversees.
I would think those chosen are those who are in his covenant. In the case of Hillary I believe no such thing is evident. And by her demonstration of that which nourishes her heart and compels her steps, I judge that the lord that she does listen to is nothing we want guiding her as leader of this nation for four years. It would amount to an unholy trinity of years being she would further Obama's vision should she arrive to assume his former post as the most powerful untrustworthy female in the world.

 

[pat34lee]

So no, I'm not going to accept "the point".

I approach the Bible like a prospector would approach his claim. I am prepared to spend a lot of time and effort searching for the shining nuggets of wisdom and insight but I am also prepared to have to shift a lot of rubble in order to find them.

So, you're going to create your own scripture by what you
believe instead of what it says.

 

[pat34lee]

"O My people! Their oppressors [n]are children,
And women rule over them.
O My people! Those who guide you lead you astray
And confuse the direction of your paths." Isa. 3:12 (NASB)

What do you think?

I think this goes deeper than a ruler. It's talking about the
women running the houses and the men are henpecked.
Emasculated.

 

[pat34lee]

Well, for Sepia and Jack, it's always seemed to me that we either accept the entire Bible or reject the entire Bible. I don't see how we can choose which parts to believe in without compromising the Bible's integrity.

There are parts where it makes more sense using a different
translation, but that does not make the original wrong.

 

[Winken]

Each have their own abilities to make the other whole and to serve God completely.

Amen. 1+1=1