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The brain is not sufficient for consciousness

Eudaimonist

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JWS describe unrepentant sin's effect on a perfect body to that of pouring sand into a flawless machine.

Human bodies are far from flawless.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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miknik5

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OK. A simple 'Yes', 'No', or 'I don't know', with or without qualification, would be reasonable answers, and the question itself could be rejected. But this...
I can't give you a simple "yes" or "no"

Just like Adam and Eve couldn't give God a straight yes or no because they knew that an outside influence had interfered and they understood immediately that they were changed

And they couldn't blame God saying it was His fault just as they couldn't lie and say they were perfectly innocent and they did not know or understand why they had changed

They knew that they were and they knew it was because of an influence who interfered against God whom they had listened to

And the effect affected all and changed whst had initially been made perfect...imperfect
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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...The body was initially made perfect.
If you're referring to the human body, it certainly isn't perfect (for any reasonable defnition of 'perfect'), and clearly never has been - it's flawed, from subcellular level to gross anatomy - as you'd expect from a body that evolved by being 'just good enough'.
 
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paul becke

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You live in the fantasy-world of materialism, Frumious, blinded by secular fundamentalism, notably here, as expressed in scientism. There is no arguing with it, since it is fundamentally irrational. The scientific evidence, never mind the immemorial anecdotal evidence, for the supernatural is endless, has growin remorselessly for approximately 90 years - your 'scientific' worldview being at least 90 years out of date. The absolute speed of light photons 'a priori' indicates non-locality (origin outside of space-time), but it has been proven multiple times and in multiple ways concerning particles at the microscopic level - which is just what Christians would expect of the boundary between creation and the Creator - the laws of physics become exceeding quaint. Read and inwardly digest this article from the Scientific American :

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-einstein-revealed-the-universe-s-strange-nonlocality/
 
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paul becke

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If you're referring to the human body, it certainly isn't perfect (for any reasonable defnition of 'perfect'), and clearly never has been - it's flawed, from subcellular level to gross anatomy - as you'd expect from a body that evolved by being 'just good enough'.

Rubbish. Your 'argument' is explicitly based on the bizarre notion that you alone are the arbiter of what reflects reason, here, and what does not.

'(for any reasonable definiition of "perfect")' ??????!!!!!!
 
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Larniavc

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JWS describe unrepentant sin's effect on a perfect body to that of pouring sand into a flawless machine.

It's not perfect if it cannot deal with sand, is it.
 
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Larniavc

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You live in the fantasy-world of materialism, Frumious, blinded by secular fundamentalism, notably here, as expressed in scientism. There is no arguing with it, since it is fundamentally irrational. The scientific evidence, never mind the immemorial anecdotal evidence, for the supernatural is endless, has growin remorselessly for approximately 90 years - your 'scientific' worldview being at least 90 years out of date. The absolute speed of light photons 'a priori' indicates non-locality (origin outside of space-time), but it has been proven multiple times and in multiple ways concerning particles at the microscopic level - which is just what Christians would expect of the boundary between creation and the Creator - the laws of physics become exceeding quaint. Read and inwardly digest this article from the Scientific American :

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-einstein-revealed-the-universe-s-strange-nonlocality/

Please provide 'scientific' evidence of the supernatural.
 
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Eudaimonist

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You live in the fantasy-world of materialism

Yeah, that fantasy world of what you can see with your own two eyes, instead of the imaginings of others. What were you thinking, Frumious?

The absolute speed of light photons 'a priori' indicates non-locality (origin outside of space-time), but it has been proven multiple times and in multiple ways concerning particles at the microscopic level - which is just what Christians would expect of the boundary between creation and the Creator

Okay, where are the Christian hypotheses of non-locality that preceded the physics experiments? Were Christians pushing for the non-locality of photons before it was known that this phenomenon existed?

Incidentally, non-locality does not imply an origin outside of spacetime.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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paul becke

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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Rubbish. Your 'argument' is explicitly based on the bizarre notion that you alone are the arbiter of what reflects reason, here, and what does not.
Nope, I'm simply expressing an informed opinion. You're welcome to argue the point.
'(for any reasonable definiition of "perfect")' ??????!!!!!!
Yes; I could see that it could be argued that a body 'just good enough' to survive and reproduce could be said to be a perfect balance of economy of adaptation and efficiency. Nevertheless, there are many features that could be improved on without compromising that balance, so it seems to me that it is short of perfection in those respects. You're welcome to argue the point.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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... The scientific evidence, never mind the immemorial anecdotal evidence, for the supernatural is endless ... which is just what Christians would expect of the boundary between creation and the Creator - the laws of physics become exceeding quaint. Read and inwardly digest this article from the Scientific American :

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-einstein-revealed-the-universe-s-strange-nonlocality/
Been there, read that. Are you suggesting that quantum mechanics, the most precise and well-tested model of nature we've ever had, is supernatural?
 
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miknik5

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If you're referring to the human body, it certainly isn't perfect (for any reasonable defnition of 'perfect'), and clearly never has been - it's flawed, from subcellular level to gross anatomy - as you'd expect from a body that evolved by being 'just good enough'.
So Frumious. If you could have...how would you have done better
 
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bhsmte

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You live in the fantasy-world of materialism, Frumious, blinded by secular fundamentalism, notably here, as expressed in scientism. There is no arguing with it, since it is fundamentally irrational. The scientific evidence, never mind the immemorial anecdotal evidence, for the supernatural is endless, has growin remorselessly for approximately 90 years - your 'scientific' worldview being at least 90 years out of date. The absolute speed of light photons 'a priori' indicates non-locality (origin outside of space-time), but it has been proven multiple times and in multiple ways concerning particles at the microscopic level - which is just what Christians would expect of the boundary between creation and the Creator - the laws of physics become exceeding quaint. Read and inwardly digest this article from the Scientific American :

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-einstein-revealed-the-universe-s-strange-nonlocality/

The first several words of your post, appear to be pretty strong projection.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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So Frumious. If you could have...how would you have done better
If evolution wasn't a restriction, and we want to retain the overall morphology, we could rework the eye so the blood vessels and nerve fibres run under the photosensitive cells and the blind spot is eliminated, and the photoreceptors could face the direction of incoming light (octopus & squid evolved a camera-type eye independently, and got it 'right').

We could remove superfluous teeth now our jaws are shorter, and have multiple replacement sets.

We could sort our backs out so they're better suited to an upright bipedal gait.

We could sort out the urogenital area so the anus is further away from the genitals, reducing the incidence of infection; move the male urethra so it passes around rather than through the prostate, separate urinary output from seminal output; move the testicles inboard by reorganising the blood supply to keep constant temperature; sort out the female pelvis and birth canal to ease childbirth and still allow efficient gait; fix the structures between ovary and uterus to prevent ectopic implantation.

We could rearrange the nasopharynx to better separate food input from respiratory input, preventing choking, reorganise the lungs to a counterflow system, like birds.

We could redesign the knee and fuse the fragile bones of the foot to improve resilience and strength.

We could fix the recurrent laryngeal nerve so it goes directly from the base of the skull to the larynx instead of looping under the aorta(!).

It would be nice if we could switch on the gene that used to produce vitamin C, so we're not so dependent on external sources.

We could fix our lousy thermoregulation so we can maintain thermal homeostasis without sweating so much; fix sinus drainage; re-enable nerve and limb regrowth; tidy up the brain, so the left & right hemispheres deal with the left & right sides of the body, move the visual cortex to the front, nearer the eyes, and so-on...

There are plenty more, and probably thousands at the level of cell biochemistry, not to mention the mental side - cognitive biases, flawed heuristics; flaws of the senses, perception, processing, memory storage & retrieval; behavioural fragility and faults. Oh, and genetic diseases...

The flaws are mostly the consequence of evolutionary adaptation and repurposing.
 
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ToddNotTodd

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The image on the Shroud is not only a photographic negative - what forger would have thought of something so zany - especially before photography had been invented ? - but the image has now been found to be 3-dimensional, a unique image, the only such image in the world. The context will explain it.

Incredulity aside, there's rebuttals to every "proof" that the shroud isn't a forgery. And given that there's a long history of religious forgeries (there's even dozens of authentic "shrouds", all claimed to be genuine), I think we should be a bit less desperate to believe.
 
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Cearbhall

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The above article shows that the brain is not sufficient for human consciousness, the mind, or life. Evolutionary psychology says that the mind and everything that you are is based on adaptive mechanisms which arose in our "Pleistocene past" and you are nothing more than a cognitive neural program (whatever that means).
You don't even know what it means, but you know better, eh?
 
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