The fine tuning of the universe.

[Oncedeceived]

And some let the alledged evidence led them where they want to go, which is where the not evidence in the first place doesn't point to.

This is nonsensical. The evidence is well documented. If there is apparent design in the universe by the fine tuning there are to options that are reasonable and rational: 1. The apparent design is actual. 2. The apparent design is an illusion. That is where the evidence leads.

 

[Oncedeceived]

This just sums up all the projection in one sentence.

This just shows how irrational you are being.

 

[AirPo]

No, these are measurement/values that are precise and determined scientifically. They are not patterns.

Again, completely missing the point. And by the way, measurements are patterns.

 

[AirPo]

Scientists don't agree with you.

Sure they do.

 

[AirPo]

Now please try to be reasonable. It has everything to do with scientific discovery.

No, it doesn't.

 

[AirPo]

This is nonsensical. The evidence is well documented. If there is apparent design in the universe by the fine tuning there are to options that are reasonable and rational: 1. The apparent design is actual. 2. The apparent design is an illusion. That is where the evidence leads.

But that is not true and it's not where the OP is going.

 

[Oncedeceived]

That's serious denial.

Exactly. The fact that the majority of scientists in the field hold a consensus for fine tuning as an actual phenomena and that they dismiss it is serious denial.

 

[Oncedeceived]

No, it doesn't.

Yes AirPo it does.

 

[AirPo]

This just sums up all the projection in one sentence.

This just shows how irrational you are being.

QED

 

[AirPo]

Yes AirPo it does.

No, it doesn't. There is nothing scientific about the "fine tuning" argument.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Great. Now all you have to do is tell us which patricular Bayesian method you're using and show that your approach doesn't fall into the traps mentioned in the articles. So far, all you've done is say the word Bayesian as if it magically makes your guesses somehow mean something. Let's see your work.

Total dismissal of the author himself claiming that the approach is valid and that the article you cited was a spoof. Classic denial.

 

[Oncedeceived]

If one is going to claim that apparent design in the universe is anything other than apparent design in the universe, it is their burden of proof.

Apparent design is design. The evidence of design is that the design is apparent. See?


[QuoteActually there is another option.[/QUOTE]OH?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Because I have a brain that works. I have pointed out numerous times how it is illogical. The post above I quoted just shows that I'm right when I claim that the fact this has been ignored is true.

Sorry? This just isn't making any sense.

 

[Oncedeceived]

But that is not true and it's not where the OP is going.

What do you mean that is not where the OP is going?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Again, completely missing the point. And by the way, measurements are patterns.

Are they now?

 

[Oncedeceived]

So, while you know "absolutely nothing" about the initial conditions that this universe came from, why are you making claims about its origins???

We know there was no space, no matter, no energy and no time. That is what we know.

 

[AirPo]

OH?

That's not evidence of anything other than itself, see? Just like looking in a mirror is nothing more than seeing yourself.

 

[AirPo]

Are they now?

Yes.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Yes, fine tuning is real - if things were different they'd be different. But you're claiming a lot more than this - that you've somehow determined how universes form and what the odds are that any particular type of universe will happen. The latter part is what's the ignorance comes from. There's simply no way for you to know those things as your inability to provide anything concrete when asked for details aptly demonstrates.

We know that there was nothing and then there was a universe. This universe is precisely fine tuned to exist and to allow life to exist in it. We don't need to know how universes form to know that ours came out of nothing to something and that included space, matter, energy and time. So how it originated doesn't change that the values it has are precisely what they need to be for this universe to exist and life in it as well.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Yes.

So how is it a pattern?