Predestination, is it coercive determinism ?

[ToBeLoved]

Is that so? Is this a demonstration of love, for your brother? What do you have to gain from such cruel words? To speak of an unbeliever in such a manner is hateful, but about a fellow Christian is downright despicable? This does not help your cause.

FYI: God gets what God wants whether any of us like it or not. God didn't create this world or us for us, He made it and us for Himself. He has the final, rightful and righteous say. End of story.

Why do you think God created us and this world?

I think it was so His creation would want a relationship with Him and choose to have one. Why else would God do it?

 

[GillDouglas]

Why do you think God created us and this world?

To fulfill His divine will and bring about Glory in His name. To be vessels in demonstrating His glorious attributes.

 

[Thursday]

Amen! So true brother. Clearly your hard work will pay off. Oh wait, shouldn't you be trusting in the perfect work of Christ instead of trying to add to it? Well anyway, reap what you sow!

I believe the words of scripture and the Church, not John Calvin.

 

[Thursday]

To fulfill His divine will and bring about Glory in His name. To be vessels in demonstrating His glorious attributes.

For God so LOVED the world....

God wants us to love him, which is why Calvinism is contrary to God's word and desires.

God didn't need to create robots to bring glory to his name.

 

[GillDouglas]

I believe the words of scripture and the Church, not John Calvin.

I believe in the words of the Bible, the only authority for things concerning God.

 

[Thursday]

I believe in the words of the Bible, the only authority for things concerning God.

And yet you deny that we will reap what we sow. You deny that God wants all men to be saved. You deny that the bread of the Eucharist is the body of Christ. You deny that we will be judged for our works.

In short, you deny all the scripture that contradicts your man made dogma.

 

[GillDouglas]

For God so LOVED the world....

God wants us to love him, which is why Calvinism is contrary to God's word and desires.

God didn't need to create robots to bring glory to his name.

He didn't need to create to bring glory to His name. We love God because He loved us first. The ability and power to love is derived of God as with all things.

 

[bling]

It is you making assumptions. The Bible says numerous times that God knows everything, if the Bible says it I believe it. If you don't believe it then you mustn't believe Gods word.

God knows everything as far as you and I are concerned, but in the Spiritual realm there may be things that are not knowable, so even God does not know these things, but that would not keep us from describing God from our perspective as knowing everything.

 

[GillDouglas]

And yet you deny that we will reap what we sow. You deny that God wants all men to be saved. You deny that the bread of the Eucharist is the body of Christ. You deny that we will be judged for our works.

In short, you deny all the scripture that contradicts your man made dogma.

I only deny the Catholic churches man made dogma. The ideas of Calvinism regarding salvation are entirely rooted in Scripture or they'd be contrary to their purpose.

 

[Thursday]

I only deny the Catholic churches man made dogma. The ideas of Calvinism regarding salvation are entirely rooted in Scripture or they'd be contrary to their purpose.

You deny the words of scripture. You contort them to fit with Calvin's fantasies, but it doesn't work.

God loves all men and wants them to repent, even the wicked.

 

[bling]

FYI: God gets what God wants whether any of us like it or not. God didn't create this world or us for us, He made it and us for Himself. He has the final, rightful and righteous say. End of story.

That does bring up the question: “Why did God make this universe”?

You say: “He made it and us for Himself.”

Do you see this universe and us fulfilling some need God has or do you see God as being complete (perfect) and thus nothing including us can provide anything for God?

If God is “Love” and part of this “Love” can be defined as being “totally unselfish”, than God would not be doing all this for His own sake, but for the sake of others. (You might say: “God’s sake is for our sake”, but the controlling factor would be our sake.)

Is God trying to “get” something from man or is God trying to generously shower man with unbelievable gifts, if only man will humbly accept those gifts as they are given (as pure charity)? Is God a giver or does He expect payback?

Would God’s Love compel God to make beings that could become like He is (with Godly type Love) and do all this for the sake of those few that will humbly accept His love and become like Him?

 

[bling]

Why do you think God created us and this world?

I think it was so His creation would want a relationship with Him and choose to have one. Why else would God do it?

Answer the question I asked above.

 

[GillDouglas]

You deny the words of scripture. You contort them to fit with Calvin's fantasies, but it doesn't work.

God loves all men and wants them to repent, even the wicked.

All men are wicked, but not all shall repent. Why doesn't God get what He wants?

 

[ToBeLoved]

To fulfill His divine will and bring about Glory in His name. To be vessels in demonstrating His glorious attributes.

So He only created the world for would be Christians

 

[GillDouglas]

So He only created the world for would be Christians

No, that is incorrect.

 

[Thursday]

All men are wicked, but not all shall repent. Why doesn't God get what He wants?

He allows us to choose our path. Without choice there is no love.


Eze 18:23
Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

 

[StanJ]

All men are wicked, but not all shall repent. Why doesn't God get what He wants?

Because God doesn't manage the outcome of procreation. He created it and he lets it do its thing under our present Fallen condition, just as nature does its thing.

 

[StanJ]

I only deny the Catholic churches man made dogma. The ideas of Calvinism regarding salvation are entirely rooted in Scripture or they'd be contrary to their purpose.

So the following represents Calvinism?

Roman 10:8-13
“The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

 

[ToBeLoved]

Because God doesn't manage the outcome of procreation. He created it and he lets it do its thing under our present Fallen condition, just as nature does its thing.

Because
If choice is given that can go two ways. I think He wants us to voluntarily choose Him

 

[ToBeLoved]

So the following represents Calvinism?

Roman 10:8-13
“The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

I like the 'everyone' in the last sentence.