Question to Protestants regarding certain Catholic beliefs

[MarkRohfrietsch]

God's JEALOUS... He doesn't like when somebody else is considered Holy yet He's the only one who's Holy. He doesn't like that there are departed Saints who are considered Very Holy and can intercede for Saints yet the Holy Spirit knows he's the Chosen intercessor for all believers.

As Galatians !:8, "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!"

So what do we preach lest we be cursed???

I'm trying to understand why, as a Sola Scriptura Baptist, who accepts the Bible as God's divinely inspired word, chose to disregard the parts where God's own Word tells us that Mary is blessed, gracious and to be honorably spoken of the way that both the Angel and Elizabeth showed her honor.

God obviously wants us to know and emulate these things or He would not have included them in His Word.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

You twist, turn and force scripture to read what it doesn't read! So now that she was the living ark of the new covenant none of the apostles regarded her in that Nature. As I Said, If she's holy enough to successfully intercede or pray for Saints and have their prayers answered the Holy Spirit isn't getting that beautiful CREDIT.

Okay, Cephas was Peter! So How comes Paul rebuked him for forcing Gentiles to follow Jewish Customs?

Really? In truth, the Holy Spirit makes all this possible.

As I stated before, Scripture is not clear that the Saints can here our prayers (maybe they can; but I'm not banking on a maybe, but only a sure thing) Scripture is also clear that Jesus Christ can and does hear our prayers.

However the saints do intercede for us as we see in revelation.

Cephas (Peter), Paul and all of the apostles are human, and in human imperfection, don't always get stuff right (remember Peter also denied Christ three times). As we read Scripture, not just a verse here and there we see a conflict in the Chruch; we also see this conflict being resolved at the Counsel of Jerusalem. (Bishops meeting in a "Synod").

It is very clear to me that God also wanted us to know that we can fail in our humanity, that as a Chruch, we can come together and resolve these issues with the help of the Holy Spirit. We also note that it is the Chruch leaders that have the authority to resolve issues, not the laity. We also see that the Church leaders need leadership.

Despite differences, these issues were resolved. Interesting to note that it was at the counsel of Jerusalem that St. Peter emerged as the accepted leader of the Apostles (one of the reasons why my parish chose to title itself after St. Peter over 100 years ago).

So what does this say about the early Chruch? For me it says that Jewish Christians are free to retain their Jewish customs and practice; Gentile Christians are not required to do so. So, the work of the Holy Spirit facilitated the ability to be in the Chruch for both. (good thing that, because as a Gentile, the original plan would not have worked out for me.)

 

[Radagast]

I'm trying to understand why, as a Sola Scriptura Baptist, who accepts the Bible as God's divinely inspired word, chose to disregard the parts where God's own Word tells us that Mary is blessed, gracious and to be honorably spoken of the way that both the Angel and Elizabeth showed her honor.

She is certainly blessed and to be honourably spoken of. However, it does not follow that she is holy in the same way that God is holy.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

She is certainly blessed and to be honourably spoken of. However, it does not follow that she is holy in the same way that God is holy.

No question; but it is through God; through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that this has been revealed to us.

 

[Radagast]

No question; but it is through God; through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that this has been revealed to us.

I'm sorry, but if you think that Mary is holy in the same way that God is holy, then we do not follow the same religion. Mary is not the 4th person of the Trinity, and the Holy Spirit has never revealed any such nonsense.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I'm sorry, but if you think that Mary is holy in the same way that God is holy, then we do not follow the same religion. Mary is not the 4th person of the Trinity, and the Holy Spirit has never revealed any such nonsense.

Did I have say that she was?

 

[Radagast]

Did I have say that she was?

You seemed to. Was the second part of your response not a reply to the second part of mine?

She is certainly blessed and to be honourably spoken of. However, it does not follow that she is holy in the same way that God is holy.

No question; but it is through God; through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that this has been revealed to us.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

God DEMANDS ALL OF IT (Adoration, attention, recognition, etc) ALL OF IT!!!

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Let's place this from another ANGLE! God isn't competing with Himself because MARY isn't a part of the Triune in the first place. So HE's the BOSS and He decides who deserves Credit. Therefore, Mary cannot, will never, now or anytime in this lifetime have a place in the Triune. God the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit don't like it when somebody seems to be getting credit on their behalf or belonging to them. So when it seems like Mary did this, Mary did that or whatever! It isn't GOD who's receiving this credit it's been her so is it God answering the prayers? If he is Why is she applauded?

First of all, why do you think that it is necessary to set up a competition between Mary and the Holy Spirit. Why is it that you see cooperation with the plan of God as competition with God Himself?

Here is a link of quotes from the Early Fathers showing that they did indeed regard Mary as the Ark of the Covenant:

Mary as Ark of New Covenant



Because he was wrong.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

You seemed to. Was the second part of your response not a reply to the second part of mine?

God DEMANDS ALL OF IT (Adoration, attention, recognition, etc) ALL OF IT!!!

Let's place this from another ANGLE! God isn't competing with Himself because MARY isn't a part of the Triune in the first place. So HE's the BOSS and He decides who deserves Credit. Therefore, Mary cannot, will never, now or anytime in this lifetime have a place in the Triune. God the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit don't like it when somebody seems to be getting credit on their behalf or belonging to them. So when it seems like Mary did this, Mary did that or whatever! It isn't GOD who's receiving this credit it's been her so is it God answering the prayers? If he is Why is she applauded?

Non of what I posted usurps the Holy Trinity; God, Father and Holy Spirit. Rather all of this was facilitated by God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and points to God's mercy, through the incarnation of His Son Jesus. Just as film makers give credit to the supporting actors and actresses; so God's word enlightens us to the great heroes of the faith; and sets them before us as examples.

BTW, did you know that today is the Birth-day of the Chruch; the festival of Pentecost; the 3rd most important commemoration of the Chruch after Easter (1) and Christmas (2). Besides the Trinity (whom we invoke at each and every service) this is "the" Festival of the Holy Spirit.

Condemn liturgical Churches all you want, but the fact remains that most reformed and protestant Churches seem to us, to come across as almost negligent when it comes to the witness of these great persons whom God chose to reveal to us in his word (which God would not have done had he wanted us to be ignorant to the great contributions that were made to His plan at the urging of the Holy Spirit).

Sorry if it might be too cat-lik for you guys, Lutheran though it is.

 

[Job8]

...God's own Word tells us that Mary is blessed, gracious and to be honorably spoken of the way that both the Angel and Elizabeth showed her honor.

While Mary is to be given her due honor as the mother of Jesus (not the mother of God, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), she is never shown to be one who is to be venerated by Christians. Indeed her name does not appear in any of the epistles, and when she is mentioned in Acts, she is shown as one of the disciples of Christ. So giving Mary any kind of worship is unacceptable. The cult of Mary arose several hundred years after the apostolic period.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

While Mary is to be given her due honor as the mother of Jesus (not the mother of God, who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), she is never shown to be one who is to be venerated by Christians. Indeed her name does not appear in any of the epistles, and when she is mentioned in Acts, she is shown as one of the disciples of Christ. So giving Mary any kind of worship is unacceptable. The cult of Mary arose several hundred years after the apostolic period.

So, her mention in the Gospels is superfluous?

The only way that her title of Mother of God would be invalid would be if Christ had no divine nature; that would be Arianism.

 

[Job8]

So, her mention in the Gospels is superfluous?

Not at all. The supernatural virgin birth of Christ was a Divine necessity, but it is Christ who must always be the focus of our attention, not Mary. The same with John the Baptist, called the greatest prophet, but not comparable to Christ, and one who recognized the distance between himself and his Saviour.

The only way that her title of Mother of God would be invalid would be if Christ had no divine nature; that would be Arianism.

Had the Holy Spirit intended to have Mary designated as *mother of God*, that is the designation we would have found in Scripture. But she is consistently called the mother of Jesus (or "the mother of my Lord" from Elisabeth) to make it clear that that is the only way to describe her.

It is significant that Mary immediately responded to Elisabeth with these words: "My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour." So even before Christ was born, Mary was making it clear (by the Holy Spirit) that God her Saviour was in her womb. If Mary's soul was magnifying the Lord, then what right has anyone to elevate Mary in any way? She herself is telling Christians to magnify God, and rejoice in God her Saviour.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Not at all. The supernatural virgin birth of Christ was a Divine necessity, but it is Christ who must always be the focus of our attention, not Mary. The same with John the Baptist, called the greatest prophet, but not comparable to Christ, and one who recognized the distance between himself and his Saviour.

Had the Holy Spirit intended to have Mary designated as *mother of God*, that is the designation we would have found in Scripture. But she is consistently called the mother of Jesus (or "the mother of my Lord" from Elisabeth) to make it clear that that is the only way to describe her.

It is significant that Mary immediately responded to Elisabeth with these words: "My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour." So even before Christ was born, Mary was making it clear (by the Holy Spirit) that God her Saviour was in her womb. If Mary's soul was magnifying the Lord, then what right has anyone to elevate Mary in any way? She herself is telling Christians to magnify God, and rejoice in God her Saviour.

God regarded her "low estate" so we should also.

The divine nature of Christ is inseparable from His human nature; Mary gave birth to both, and nurtured both. Mother of God is appropriate; but Catholic terms such as coredemptorix and such like are at odds with the Bible; Mother of God and Theotokis are not.

 

[Radagast]

It is significant that Mary immediately responded to Elisabeth with these words: "My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour." So even before Christ was born, Mary was making it clear (by the Holy Spirit) that God her Saviour was in her womb.

That's a strange way to read the Magnificat. Mary was not praising her baby at that point.

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

The cult of Mary arose several hundred years after the apostolic period.

From the Cult of Isis.

Sent from my SM-N915V using Tapatalk

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

That's a strange way to read the Magnificat. Mary was not praising her baby at that point.

Agreed; not the Baby, but the Lord God Almighty.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

From the Cult of Isis.

Sent from my SM-N915V using Tapatalk

This has been refuted so many times here that such is absurd and not even worthy of a comment.

 

[keltoi]

This has been refuted so many times here that such is absurd and not even worthy of a comment.

Yet you did comment

 

[Job8]

That's a strange way to read the Magnificat. Mary was not praising her baby at that point.

Who other than Christ is our great God and Saviour? The reason He was named Jesus is because "He shall save His people from their sins".