Adam was made from the dust of the ground.....

[DogmaHunter]

Your interpretation of reality is entirely subjective.

An evidence based, independently verifiable interpretation of reality is as objective as it can get.

Reality does not stop at the boundaries of the physical world.

I don't know about that. You don't either. You just like to believe that.
Reality doesn't necessarily stop there. But you don't know, because you have no way to assess or test such a claim.

It includes the totality of existence.

Sure. But you can only know those things that are actually verifiable. All the rest is just speculation, which might or might no be correct.

It includes things which are not testable.

How can you know those things exist, if they aren't testable?

How do you tell true things from false things, if you have no means to verify what is true and/or what is false?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Regarding the "science" of evolution, if it were introduced today it would be considered an interesting theory, but inconclusive.

No. Today, we actually know about DNA. DNA makes common ancestry of species pretty much conclusive.

Nothing observable varies in any way from what we would expect to see coming from the various species after the flood.

What flood?

Each reproduces after it's own kind.

Evolution doesn't state otherwise.
In evolution, cats don't give birth to dogs.
In evolution, every organism that was ever born, was of the same species as its direct parents.

And no, kind is not a scientific classification. Only man classifies animals into organized families. You don't see such structure in the Bible.

Indeed, there is a lot that the authors of the bible were ignorant about, or were unable to do, or simply got wrong, due to a lack of knowledge.

Evolution stands in direct contrast with the word of God regarding our origin, so by definition evolution is false.

Not "by definition". Rather, by your "faith based beliefs".

Faith based beliefs do not necessarily reflect reality.
Furthermore, PLENTY of christians have no problems with biological evolution. This is only an issue in certain specific interpretations of the religion.

We were created by God. We dd not evolve.

That's what you believe, yes

 

[lesliedellow]

I know "The Population Bomb" was based on junk science, as was the Silent Spring

I didn't bother to read the rest of it. At the time of Christ, the population of the world was 250 million. It took fifteen centuries for that to double to 500 million. By the beginning of the twentieth century it had doubled again to 1 billion. Now, barely more than 100 years later, it is 6 billion and heading for 7 billion.

 

[expos4ever]

There is no way using any method known to man or not known to man that dust could be animated.

If there is a way to animate dust that "is not known to man", you, as a man, would not be aware its existence (by the terms of your own statement).

So the fact that we do not know of a way that dust could be animated does not mean that dust could not be animated.

In any event, I suggest that both "sides" of this debate err if they take the word "dust" literally. I would bet that to say that God made man "of the dust" means simply that He made man out of the same "stuff" of which the rest of the natural world is comprised. And it is obviously the case that we are indeed composed of the same stuff - the chemical elements and higher order molecules, etc. The fact that dust per se may not match the chemical composition of our bodies is to take the metaphor of "created from dust" as literal.

 

[KWCrazy]

An evidence based, independently verifiable interpretation of reality is as objective as it can get.

Again, you're limiting your definition of reality to physical existence, which has never been the case in the history of man.

I don't know about that. You don't either. You just like to believe that.
Reality doesn't necessarily stop there. But you don't know, because you have no way to assess or test such a claim.

You don't know what I know or what I've experienced.
Frankly, I think the majority of Christians have had experience with the supernatural. I would like to say all, but I'll stick with my qualifier. God, you see, is supernatural; as is the Holy Spirit.
So, by the way are demons and angels. I've never seen an actual angel, though I've seen some pretty cool pictures that arouse the imagination.

Sure. But you can only know those things that are actually verifiable. All the rest is just speculation, which might or might no be correct.

When you see something spiritual and you KNOW at the time exactly what it is, you have your own evidence. What I see or don't see may not be evidence for you, but what you see is. Supposing you personally saw a UFO. You would tend to believe what you saw. It may be a drone or experimental aircraft, but it remains unidentified until it is actually identified.

How can you know those things exist, if they aren't testable?

Not all evidence is testable.
If I show you the Ace of Spades and put it in my pocket, you might know what you've seen, but if you don't get to hold the card you can't test it or prove it to anyone else.

How do you tell true things from false things, if you have no means to verify what is true and/or what is false?

How do you know I showed you the Ace of Spades and not a cat picture? You've seen both and know one from another based on your experience. Have you ever seen a shadow? Certainly; everyone has. Now, have you ever seen a shadow walking in a lighted hallway without anyone there to block the light? You know what a shadow is and what causes it, but seeing the shadow moving of its own accord is something quite different. That steps beyond the boundaries of the natural and into the supernatural. Ever see things move without force being applied to it? It's not a failing of the law of inertia; it's a force unseen and perhaps unknown. The list of people with such experiences would amaze you. In fact, I doubt you could get a very large gathering without SOMEONE having an experience they couldn't explain.

 

[KWCrazy]

I didn't bother to read the rest of it. At the time of Christ, the population of the world was 250 million. It took fifteen centuries for that to double to 500 million. By the beginning of the twentieth century it had doubled again to 1 billion. Now, barely more than 100 years later, it is 6 billion and heading for 7 billion.

In Christ's time, one farm family fed themselves and maybe a few others. Today one farmer feeds 155 people. By using reverse osmosis we can get drinking water from polluted rivers. With irrigation techniques and hydroponics we can grow practically anything practically anywhere. We're in far greater danger of terrorists disrupting the food chain than of the world starving due to overpopulation.

 

[lesliedellow]

In Christ's time, one farm family fed themselves and maybe a few others. Today one farmer feeds 155 people.

With a lot more land.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I know "The Population Bomb" was based on junk science, as was the Silent Spring, as was the coming ice age, as was global warming; not called climate change because all the models failed and the earth is on a 17 year cooling pattern. I don't regard climatology as a science in the least. It's nothing but a self-perpetuating liberal scam paid for by the unwilling dollars of the American taxpayer. Meanwhile, people like Al Gore make millions of dollars investing in "green energy" projects that are over-funded by the government and yield almost no return. The fact is that the air is cleaner than it was 50 years ago. We don't have a pollution problem in America. We have a problem with over-regulation and corruption. Science has been co-opted to conform to social engineering. It's become closer akin to prostitution than to sound research.

Also, and I can't recall the exact location of the verse but when the end comes for this age, we are told it will be as in the days of Noah...people will be buying/selling, taking in marriage and so forth. IOW things will be pretty normal.

Take care of the planet of course, but I don't see any climatic or man made earth destroying catastrophe causing any real issues. I'm with you, just doesn't worry me in the least, and that verse alone is enough to convince me. As for Gore and the like, the Go Green thing, as you mention seems like a joke. I can see those things being used as scare tactics later on to help bring in the new world order, just prior to Christs return, or maybe not, but for now it appears to be just something someone can make a few bucks on. Seems like every product sold can be stretched into being Green in some way...I have to wonder if people really choose a product because of the Green claim?

 

[KWCrazy]

With a lot more land.

The birth rate in industrialized nations is dropping to less than 1.6 children per couple, so it's only the third world countries growing their populations at present. There's plenty of land.

 

[lesliedellow]

Also, and I can't recall the exact location of the verse but when the end comes for this age, we are told it will be as in the days of Noah...people will be buying/selling, taking in marriage and so forth. IOW things will be pretty normal.

Take care of the planet of course, but I don't see any climatic or man made earth destroying catastrophe causing any real issues. I'm with you, just doesn't worry me in the least, and that verse alone is enough to convince me.

How very convenient. The Bible gives American conservatives the justification to keep using up non renewable resources as if there was no tomorrow.

 

[Kenny'sID]

How very convenient. The Bible gives American conservatives the justification to keep using up non renewable resources as if there was no tomorrow.

How very unobservant.

Take care of the planet of course,

And convenient for what? All I can figure is for some reason you think I'm all for destroying the planet, it's all that fits with that comment that I can think of.

Why would you think that? Or did you just choose to out of thin air open things up so you can make a nasty comment? Where is all this need to accuse and meanness coming from?

 

[Hoghead1]

I know "The Population Bomb" was based on junk science, as was the Silent Spring, as was the coming ice age, as was global warming; not called climate change because all the models failed and the earth is on a 17 year cooling pattern. I don't regard climatology as a science in the least. It's nothing but a self-perpetuating liberal scam paid for by the unwilling dollars of the American taxpayer. Meanwhile, people like Al Gore make millions of dollars investing in "green energy" projects that are over-funded by the government and yield almost no return. The fact is that the air is cleaner than it was 50 years ago. We don't have a pollution problem in America. We have a problem with over-regulation and corruption. Science has been co-opted to conform to social engineering. It's become closer akin to prostitution than to sound research.

Regarding the "science" of evolution, if it were introduced today it would be considered an interesting theory, but inconclusive. Nothing observable varies in any way from what we would expect to see coming from the various species after the flood. Each reproduces after it's own kind. And no, kind is not a scientific classification. Only man classifies animals into organized families. You don't see such structure in the Bible. Evolution stands in direct contrast with the word of God regarding our origin, so by definition evolution is false. We were created by God. We dd not evolve. Man's sin brought death and disorder into the world. There IS a consequence to sin despite what others try to tell you and you you try to tell yourself.

No, the truth is, you are assuming evolution stands in conflict with your fundamentalaistic ideology and so, by definition, is considered wrong. The rest of your post marks you well as a victim of 0our times. People today are very distrustful, very paranoid. The "in' thing to do is to see a conspiracy anywhere and everywhere. Just look at how much coverage the mass media gives to programs on conspiracy theories of one sort or another. The public goes into a feeding frenzy over r this junk food, which is why so many read the "National Inquirer," why so many TV shows are out to debunk everything from the moon landing to the death of Princess D as all a big cover-up. So, why not jump on the band wagon and go after science, claim it's all a big cover-up? After all, we all know that the moon landing was a big hoax on the part of NASA, so let's go further and say evouti9ojn is all a big fake and cover-op by science?

 

[KWCrazy]

How very convenient. The Bible gives American conservatives the justification to keep using up non renewable resources as if there was no tomorrow.

Our god is not the Earth. Our God CREATED the earth.
There is oil in the ground.
Oil is a contaminate.
Therefore the Lord intends for us to cleanse the earth by using that oil to power our vehicles.
There is coal in the ground.
Coal is a contaminate.
Therefore the Lord intends for us to cleanse the earth by using that coal to fire up our power plants and make electricity.

 

[expos4ever]

There is oil in the ground.
Oil is a contaminate.
Therefore the Lord intends for us to cleanse the earth by using that oil to power our vehicles.

Please tell us you are joking.

There is coal in the ground.
Coal is a contaminate.
Therefore the Lord intends for us to cleanse the earth by using that coal to fire up our power plants and make electricity.

Please tell us you are joking.

 

[lesliedellow]

Please tell us you are joking.

I hope he is.

 

[USincognito]

Our god is not the Earth. Our God CREATED the earth.
There is oil in the ground.
Oil is a contaminate.
Therefore the Lord intends for us to cleanse the earth by using that oil to power our vehicles.
There is coal in the ground.
Coal is a contaminate.
Therefore the Lord intends for us to cleanse the earth by using that coal to fire up our power plants and make electricity.

Wow, just wow.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I hope uranium isn't a contaminant.

 

[JonFromMinnesota]

Oil is a contaminate.
Therefore the Lord intends for us to cleanse the earth by using that oil to power our vehicles.
There is coal in the ground.
Coal is a contaminate.
Therefore the Lord intends for us to cleanse the earth by using that coal to fire up our power plants and make electricity.

 

[KWCrazy]

Please tell us you are joking.

Not really.
There is oil in the ground because the Lord provided it. It serves no other purpose. We learned that we can get use coal for a fuel source and there is an abundance of it. Natural gas is plentiful, and accomplishes nothing underground. There are many wild berries and flowers that are edible. God knew before He created the earth what resources its people would need and all those resources have been provided. If you can look at the world around you and not see the brilliance of the Creator, then your eyes are truly blind.

 

[expos4ever]

Not really.
There is oil in the ground because the Lord provided it. It serves no other purpose.

God designed me so that, each day, I produce a substantial quantity of fecal material. It serves no obvious purpose. Shall I move next door to you and burn that fecal material as fuel, all the while gracing you with the wonderful aromas generated thereby?