LDS Which Church Really Saves?

[tickingclocker]

Interestingly, Jesus' lesser status is probably also related to His failure to marry, don'cha think?

Mormons are taught that Jesus was married. In fact, He was a polygamist. The popular notion has always been He married sisters Mary and Martha, and Mary Magdalene. But that's another subject with multiple tentacles they hope won't be brought up. Personally I wouldn't. Diversion is a well-used tool for some.

 

[Geralt]

'membership salvation' is not the gospel. all cults uses this trick. its out of the frying pan and into the fire.
the church did not die on the cross, jesus did.

 

[tickingclocker]

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[tickingclocker]

'membership salvation' is not the gospel. all cults uses this trick. its out of the frying pan and into the fire.
the church did not die on the cross, jesus did.

Amen, brother. It's one of their classic "you will be one of God's special people if you join our religion club" lures. In their pride, fallen humanity craves information which God has "not revealed" to the general public. Secret, spiritual knowledge not contained in Scripture, so they must create their own by invention or through a whiz-bang vehicle for "modern revelation". It stems back to the Garden of Eden, to Eve's curiosity of God's divine wisdom, symbolized in that one special tree. Until Satan lured her into focusing on its significance and false possibilities, it remained just another tree. Since Adam's fall, we humans have inherited this prideful yearning. Some give in to their pride over "knowing what others don't", others take it for what it is. In fact, all pagan religions are based on this lure, desiring or obtaining some mysterious "secret spiritual knowledge nobody else has".

So, did that knowledge really make humanity smart? Quite the opposite of what Eve was told. It served to enhance humanity's pride in itself, thinking we can now determine what is good and what is evil, instead of accepting God's mandates. All sin winds its way back to the Garden. There's nothing new under the sun. No secret there.

 

[tickingclocker]

Consider someone drowning and someone else throws in a life preserver.

Now was it the life preserver that saved or was it the person who threw it in the water?

In reality it was both.

In the same way the church is God's tool in the salvation process.

Which is called the life preserver? The person who threw it, or the ring they grab ahold of which saves their life?

 

[tickingclocker]

Hi S14LDS, your quote from your linked article pulled from its context makes it seem like the LDS believe in the universal salvation of every man and woman who has ever lived. In context however, it appears to be something quite different. For instance, if we add in the two sentences that follow your quote (posited above) we read:

As to salvation from sin and the consequences of sin, our answer to the question of whether or not we have been saved is “yes, but with conditions.” Our third article of faith declares our belief:

“We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind MAY be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel” (A of F 1:3).​

We further read:

Who glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him” (D&C 76:40–43; emphasis added).

The prophet Brigham Young taught that doctrine when he declared that “every person who does not sin away the day of grace, and become an angel to the Devil, will be brought forth to inherit a kingdom of glory” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young [1997], 288).​

Not that men can "become an angel" (either of Satan or of the Lord), but I think you'd agree that the LDS HARDLY teach that "ALL mortals have been saved from the permanence of death"!

edit: I also just saw that Phoebe Ann pointed out other LDS official statements that basically state that apart from the Mormon Church, no one will be saved.

So salvation, according to the LDS, is the result of 1) membership in the Mormon Church and 2) obedience to all of its laws and ordinances.

This is a far cry from Christianity and the Bible which both teach that salvation is by grace through faith apart from works of any kind (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5 .. John 3:16; John 3:18; John 5:24; John 20:31; Romans 4:5; Romans 10:9-10; 1 John 5:13.........................................).

Those born, "in Adam", all die. Only those who are born again, "in Christ", will be made alive.

Yours and His,
David

LDS "salvation" depends upon a Mormon's obedience level. A "greater salvation reward" goes to Mormons who have been perfectly obedient on earth to all LDS ordinances (Mormon-speak for authorized decrees), entering a higher heavenly reward to godhood. All lesser Mormons enter the lesser, middle heaven with no godhood available. (The LDS is the sole Mormon church which holds this belief.)

Every human is technically "saved" in Mormonism, except a very few like Hitler. Some will be taught after death, without ever walking by faith in this life like Jesus states of His salvation, and will accept it. Others who refuse are sent to "Spirit Prison", where they ponder the facts until they repent and accept it in future.

So you are correct overall in saying Mormon "salvation" is nothing whatsoever like Christianity.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Amen, brother. It's one of their classic "you will be one of God's special people if you join our religion club" lures. In their pride, fallen humanity craves information which God has "not revealed" to the general public. Secret, spiritual knowledge not contained in Scripture, so they must create their own by invention or through a whiz-bang vehicle for "modern revelation". It stems back to the Garden of Eden, to Eve's curiosity of God's divine wisdom, symbolized in that one special tree. Until Satan lured her into focusing on its significance and false possibilities, it remained just another tree. Since Adam's fall, we humans have inherited this prideful yearning. Some give in to their pride over "knowing what others don't", others take it for what it is. In fact, all pagan religions are based on this lure, desiring or obtaining some mysterious "secret spiritual knowledge nobody else has".

So, did that knowledge really make humanity smart? Quite the opposite of what Eve was told. It served to enhance humanity's pride in itself, thinking we can now determine what is good and what is evil, instead of accepting God's mandates. All sin winds its way back to the Garden. There's nothing new under the sun. No secret there.

Pride is the key word there. And I agree. It's the lie from the garden, 'ye shall be like god'.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Like many others, I can't see this as just as simple as the title, and I did try. But that's not to say the ongoing journey to getting saved isn't simple, in concept anyway.

As mentioned, Jesus spoke to the Churches and found one who's attendees acted right. So, in turn, we do the things that Jesus praised the one Church for doing and heed the warnings to the other Churches in question in order to be saved. And it is possible to do all that with no Church at all.

 

[bbbbbbb]

True that. I think on modern times, the Catholic church has loosened up on saying it is the ONLY church. From my understanding now it's considered that God takes many forms but if you want the purest teaching of Christ you find it in the Catholic church. Something like that but don't quote me. I mean I have heard Homilies where Gandhi has been quoted and used as an example of how to live so thet particular Priest didn;t believe there was only one true church and everybody else has it wrong.

More to the point I think it's about how you live like in this passage

Matt 25:31-40 ESV “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the…

My personal opinion is of you are doing these things you are a member of God's church no matter what you call yourself even if you just call yourself happy to help. So really I think the sheep belong to the one true church kind of like it points to in the passage

Thanks. I appreciate your openness. There are Catholic posters here who would pounce on you for admitting that there are actually Christians outside of the Catholic Church. The LDS is in a similar state now where many Mormons are unsure, at best, if non-Mormons can be Christians. So, what they are given is the nonsense that everyone is really saved (resurrected) and, therefore, every person who has ever been born is saved. However, only a select few Mormons are actually going to heaven to live with Jesus and have a celestial marriage where they spend their time copulating with their wife (or wives, according to Mr. Smith).

 

[bbbbbbb]

What scripture(s) are you referencing?

None, of course, because Jesus never married. If he had married, don'cha think the gospel writers might have got it right and included it in their accounts? It seems like such a truly significant event (upon which, according to Mr. Smith, one's eternal status is determined) would have merited at least a word or two in the gospels. What we have is that Peter was married.

Also, Jesus did not father any children. If He had we surely would have had some mention of them. But, what do we have in the New Testament? Nothing, nadda, zippo.

Now, the familiar LDS response is that the Bible was rewritten many centuries later during the Great Apostasy. So, if that is truly the case, where is the evidence for that assertion? It isn't there. Thus far, the LDS have been unable to locate a single copy of a single chapter or verse that was expunged from the Bible during the Great Apostasy. Instead, they claim divine revelation which "restored" a gospel which never existed until Mr. Smith started it by writing the Book of Mormon, Another Gospel.

This is not at all unlike Roman Catholic assertions concerning the Four Marian Dogmas. Although they have zero biblical evidence for them, they have created an intricate theological framework which depends entirely upon divine revelation through their Prophet, Seer, and Revelator (to borrow a title from the LDS which the Catholics do not actually use) - the Pope.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I wonder if Ghandi would have admired Mother Theresa. Not everyone always did.

How true. Devout Hindus still consider him a heretic. That is why he was assassinated not by a British radical, but by a member of his own religion - Hinduism.

 

[rturner76]

I wonder if Ghandi would have admired Mother Theresa. Not everyone always did.

It's funny you should say that because the priest mentioned the two in the same homily like they were comparable people

 

[bbbbbbb]

It's funny you should say that because the priest mentioned the two in the same homily like they were comparable people

I was surprised to find that in China virtually nobody has even heard of Ghandi (or, for that matter, Mother Theresa). He is not in the history curriculum of the schools there.

 

[Super14LDS]

None, of course, because Jesus never married. If he had married, don'cha think the gospel writers might have got it right and included it in their accounts? It seems like such a truly significant event (upon which, according to Mr. Smith, one's eternal status is determined) would have merited at least a word or two in the gospels. What we have is that Peter was married.

Also, Jesus did not father any children. If He had we surely would have had some mention of them. But, what do we have in the New Testament? Nothing, nadda, zippo.

Now, the familiar LDS response is that the Bible was rewritten many centuries later during the Great Apostasy. So, if that is truly the case, where is the evidence for that assertion? It isn't there. Thus far, the LDS have been unable to locate a single copy of a single chapter or verse that was expunged from the Bible during the Great Apostasy. Instead, they claim divine revelation which "restored" a gospel which never existed until Mr. Smith started it by writing the Book of Mormon, Another Gospel.

This is not at all unlike Roman Catholic assertions concerning the Four Marian Dogmas. Although they have zero biblical evidence for them, they have created an intricate theological framework which depends entirely upon divine revelation through their Prophet, Seer, and Revelator (to borrow a title from the LDS which the Catholics do not actually use) - the Pope.

18 years of His life are undocumented and He never states He wasn't married.

 

[Super14LDS]

LDS "salvation" depends upon a Mormon's obedience level. A "greater salvation reward" goes to Mormons who have been perfectly obedient on earth to all LDS ordinances (Mormon-speak for authorized decrees), entering a higher heavenly reward to godhood. All lesser Mormons enter the lesser, middle heaven with no godhood available. (The LDS is the sole Mormon church which holds this belief.)

Every human is technically "saved" in Mormonism, except a very few like Hitler. Some will be taught after death, without ever walking by faith in this life like Jesus states of His salvation, and will accept it. Others who refuse are sent to "Spirit Prison", where they ponder the facts until they repent and accept it in future.

So you are correct overall in saying Mormon "salvation" is nothing whatsoever like Christianity.

Saved from what?

Every mortal will be saved from the permanence of death and receive eternal life except those that commit the unpardable sin.

 

[bbbbbbb]

18 years of His life are undocumented and He never states He wasn't married.

It never states that He didn't have eighteen heads, four thumbs, or eight arms. If any of these were at all true, don'cha think they would have been mentioned? You cannot make up an argument from silence, especially on an issue that, according to your denomination, is of utmost necessity for eternal life with God in the Celestial Kingdom. Even your Prophets, Seers, and Revelators have never made any assertion regarding the marital status and progeny of Jesus Christ. Either marriage and progeny are actually unnecessary for exaltation or, if they are, the rules were suspended regarding Jesus Christ.

Which reminds me, the rules were suspended in both the case of Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. Jesus Christ never married and had progeny and the Holy Ghost never passed through mortality and received a body of flesh and bones, much less got married and had progeny, yet both have been exalted to godhood. Interesting.

 

[ViaCrucis]

18 years of His life are undocumented and He never states He wasn't married.

But super weird to be giving care of His mother to one of His disciples if He had a missus who could help care for the Theotokos-in-law.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[bbbbbbb]

But super weird to be giving care of His mother to one of His disciples if He had a missus who could help care for the Theotokos-in-law.

-CryptoLutheran

Also super weird that his wife and kids abandoned Him at Calvary.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Also super weird that his wife and kids abandoned Him at Calvary.

And nobody in the history of Christendom ever mentioned anything about it.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Super14LDS]

It never states that He didn't have eighteen heads, four thumbs, or eight arms. If any of these were at all true, don'cha think they would have been mentioned? You cannot make up an argument from silence, especially on an issue that, according to your denomination, is of utmost necessity for eternal life with God in the Celestial Kingdom. Even your Prophets, Seers, and Revelators have never made any assertion regarding the marital status and progeny of Jesus Christ. Either marriage and progeny are actually unnecessary for exaltation or, if they are, the rules were suspended regarding Jesus Christ.

Which reminds me, the rules were suspended in both the case of Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. Jesus Christ never married and had progeny and the Holy Ghost never passed through mortality and received a body of flesh and bones, much less got married and had progeny, yet both have been exalted to godhood. Interesting.

Those that die without knowledge won't be held to the same standard. Marriage isn't possible after resurrection, hence the need for the millennium.