"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

[SkyWriting]

How do you qualify "excellent" in this context? I would expect things that have been evolving for billions of years to have a leg up over our current technological exploits.

On the subject of 'proof', what proof is there of some guy that, if he existed at all, died 2000 years ago, and yet is still able to telepathically communicate with select individuals and cause his image to appear in toast and water stains? How does that work?

There is no way to scientifically verify supernatural intelligence.
If there were, it would not be supernatural.
But the results of answered prayer are stunning.
My analysis is that God communicates what we are to pray for
so that He can answer it in the most obvious manor possible,
direct and instant response.

 

[SkyWriting]

I would not allude to naturalism, but to methodologies developed for exploring reality that appear to have greater accuracy. Claims for the existence of gods do not do well under that type of analysis.

Becasue God is not a natural development.

 

[Davian]

You for your similar efforts. Most often the argument is internal
long before it is externalized onto others.

The attempt to make others look foolish (or any negative labeling)
is born of insecurity.

Do you find that your participation in these forums helps with your feelings of insecurity?

 

[Davian]

A temporary visitor to this forum.
Guidelines for all Discussion and Debate Forums

Could you quote a relevant passage?

 

[Davian]

There is no way to scientifically verify supernatural intelligence.

Can you define 'supernatural' in a manner that might differentiate it from "imaginary"?

If there were, it would not be supernatural.

But there is the imaginary.

But the results of answered prayer are stunning.
My analysis is that God communicates what we are to pray for
so that He can answer it in the most obvious manor possible,
direct and instant response.

Does your "analysis" rise above random chance and confirmation bias? No?

 

[Davian]

Becasue God is not a natural development.

Religions seem to be. And, they do not require actual gods.

 

[SkyWriting]

Religions seem to be. And, they do not require actual gods.

So they don't require reality for you?
You imagine you are different?

 

[SkyWriting]

Do you find that your participation in these forums helps with your feelings of insecurity?

Have you documented said insecurity?

 

[SkyWriting]

Does your "analysis" rise above random chance and confirmation bias? No?

The methods I follow achieve 100% results.
Anyone can do the same, but it's not easy.

 

[bhsmte]

The methods I follow achieve 100% results.
Anyone can do the same, but it's not easy.

Good results. What is your method?

 

[SkyWriting]

Good results. What is your method?

One has to "make a request" and continue making the request
over and over until you realize how selfish the request is.
Then you have to realize that God already knew about the
request before you started. At some point you need to
stop pushing your own agenda and fully release the results
over to God and KNOW that your request has been answered.
At the instant that you fully release your ego from the results
God will instantly grant your request, and in my experience
will flood your mind with relief.

I've only reached the point of fully removing my ego from the
prayer a few times, but the results where quite dramatic as if
God has reached in and changed the landscape around me.

On continued analysis, what I discovered was that God changed
my prayer to match was about to occur and made sure the
timing was correct, just to let me know He was there.

In one case, I needed dramatic help.
In another, a second person needed dramatic help.
In another, the request was stupid, but still granted.
The commonality between all events was the total
release of the request from my ego that called for
me having control over the outcome.

 

[SteveB28]

1) What makes a claim extraordinary?

2) Where's the line between requiring sufficient evidence for an extraordinary claim and requiring unreasonable evidence for a non-extraordinary claim?

3) How does one determine when sufficient evidence has been given to believe a claim?


Isn't it all just arbitrary based on our own suppositions and prior beliefs / biases?

Yes, it's a continuum. So what? We can still make comparative assessments, can we not?

If you tell me you have 50c, $5 or $50 in your pocket, I would probably accept your claim at face value. Why? Because what you propose is a reasonable, fairly common event.

However, if you claim to have $5 million on your person, I would find that claim to be quite extraordinary. I would require some pretty substantial evidence before I accepted it.

Now, in between $50 and $5 million? How much evidence would be required for claims in that range? It will vary from person to person, won't it? But, the one thing that is clear is that, generally speaking, the greater the amount claimed, the greater the evidence required.

 

[SteveB28]

There is no way to scientifically verify supernatural intelligence.
If there were, it would not be supernatural.
But the results of answered prayer are stunning.
My analysis is that God communicates what we are to pray for
so that He can answer it in the most obvious manor possible,
direct and instant response.

All research into so-called "answered prayer" demonstrate that, at best, it has no discernible effect.

 

[SkyWriting]

All research into so-called "answered prayer" demonstrate that, at best, it has no discernible effect.

Correct. If man could alter our experiences, no one would ever win the Superbowl.
As I just explained, God can alter your prayers to match with His desires for you.

 

[SkyWriting]

Now, in between $50 and $5 million? How much evidence would be required for claims in that range? It will vary from person to person, won't it? But, the one thing that is clear is that, generally speaking, the greater the amount claimed, the greater the evidence required.

There are a number of stories I've heard or read where the request to God was for, say $212
and at the deadline, God provided the last $12 in the mail from another state.

 

[SkyWriting]

All research into so-called "answered prayer" demonstrate that, at best, it has no discernible effect.

This would explain that:
"The commonality between all events was the total
release of the request from my ego that called for
me having control over the outcome."

 

[Davian]

So they don't require reality for you?

Religions? By their very nature, they cannot all be right, which means that all of them (with the exception of one, perhaps) do not require gods in reality.

You imagine you are different?

I do not require gods in reality.

 

[Davian]

Have you documented said insecurity?

You did. I can only speak to what motivates me.

 

[Davian]

The methods I follow achieve 100% results.

I have similar methods for playing the stock market and lotteries. 100% results, every time.

Anyone can do the same, but it's not easy.

Does your "analysis" rise above random chance and confirmation bias? No?

 

[SteveB28]

There are a number of stories I've heard or read where the request to God was for, say $212
and at the deadline, God provided the last $12 in the mail from another state.

Yes..............stories.