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POLL: Do you consider the Eucharistic ritual food itself to be/have Christ's body?

Please choose the best answer. Do you consider the ritual food itself to be/have Christ's real body?

  • Yes, I'm Anglican, and it objectively and/or directly has and/or is Christ's real, actual body.

    Votes: 11 50.0%
  • No, I'm Anglican and it only is and/or has Christ's body in symbol and/or in ritual effect as a tool

    Votes: 3 13.6%
  • I'm Anglican and have no opinion

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm Anglican, and would answer Other (explain how you would phrase the question).

    Votes: 8 36.4%

  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .

graceandpeace

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In writing that answer I was looking for the meaning of virtualism, as the Church of England Report defined it:
"The bread and the wine therefore do not become the body and blood of Christ in substance... but in spiritual power, virtue and effect. "

The Report said:

http://anglicaneucharistictheology...._Doctrine_in_the_Church_of_England,_1938.html

The Christian Faith: AN INTRODUCTION TO DOGMATIC THEOLOGY - By CLAUDE BEAUFORT MOSS, D.D.LONDONdefines this as:

Ok.

So are you looking for one, single Anglican belief on this topic? If so, you won't find it. What is typical is belief in some form of the Real Prescence, with the exact mechanics & implications left as a mystery. There are different opinions, sure, but ultimately I think most are more comfortable taking the stance of not knowing.

The Anglican section on this Wikipedia page sums up our views okay:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_presence_of_Christ_in_the_Eucharist
 
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rakovsky

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Ok.

So are you looking for one, single Anglican belief on this topic? If so, you won't find it. What is typical is belief in some form of the Real Prescence, with the exact mechanics & implications left as a mystery. There are different opinions, sure, but ultimately I think most are more comfortable taking the stance of not knowing.

The Anglican section on this Wikipedia page sums up our views okay:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_presence_of_Christ_in_the_Eucharist
Thanks. It is saying that there are at least two very different views, ie real objective presence vs. the Calvinist view of the body up in heaven being "present" to believers because the Holy Spirit united their spirits with that body up in heaven:

During the English Reformation, the new doctrine of the Church of England had a strong influence from continental Reformed theologians whom Cranmer had invited to England to aid with the reforms. Among these were Martin Bucer, Peter Martyr Vermigli, Bernardino Ochino, Paul Fagius, and Jan Łaski. John Calvin was also urged to come to England by Cranmer, but declined, saying that he was too involved in the Swiss reforms. Consequently, early on, the Church of England has a strong Reformed, if not particularly Calvinistic influence. The view of the real presence, as described in the Thirty-Nine Articles therefore bears much resemblance to the pneumatic views of Bucer, Martyr, and Calvin.
...
During the Oxford Movement of the 19th century, Tractarians advanced a belief in the real objective presence of Christ in the Eucharist, but maintained that the details of how He is present remain mystery of faith,[28][29] a view also held by the Orthodox Church and Methodist Church.[1][5] Indeed, one of the oldest Anglo-Catholic devotional societies, the Confraternity of the Blessed Sacrament, was founded largely to promote belief in the real objective presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
 
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everbecoming2007

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I went with "Other."

There are of course various theologies of the Real Presence many of which are coherent, interesting, and inspiring. I am sympathetic to Aquinas' view since I believe I understand his meaning of "substance" and "accident," although I continue to refer to bread and wine after the consecration as the Bible does. Calvin's theology is also very beautiful to me, especially when I ponder the notion of being lifted into heaven with Jesus during communion. And Luther's view is also very interesting, and I love the notion of the ubiquity of Christ's humanity (which Luther is careful to distinguish from Docetism.) The merit of the theology of the real presence found in the Thirty-Nine Articles is that without going into undue speculation it also emphasizes that the scriptures only speak of partaking of Christ's Body "unto life," and I think that's an important thing to note. Since the English Reformation there have been prominent theologians who were more realist or nominalist in their view of the Real Presence, and I think that's something the Thirty-Nine Articles are able to accommodate because they do not specify as much as Aquinas, Luther, or Calvin did. Even this division between a spiritual or physical presence does not make sense to me. Even if Jesus is present physically that physical presence is obviously only mediated in a spiritual manner in the Eucharist -- I don't taste a finger or human blood in the sacrament. It's not even necessary to speculate overly much what it means that Jesus is only spiritually present in the Sacrament as such a concept goes beyond our human experience. We cannot really know.

We can take the real presence on faith as a fundamental assumption about what we believe the sacrament is, and that assumption is rooted in scripture as it has been received in the Church. When we go beyond that into explanations and mechanics we are speculating. We are creating coherent theological constructs that may or may not be true, or they may only be true insofar as they help us to ponder the mystery of Jesus' presence in fruitful ways to our lives of prayer in which case they may not be true in the way that we might think. If the latter is the case then different theologies of the real presence may be "true" as far as they go despite differences in expression, language, and conceptualization. That is how I have tended to treat them. I find them inspiring, I find them edifying, I feel close to God when I read about them no matter how different the theologies are from one another. But they are merely speculative constructs, and they have their limitations. The Real Presence is a mystery.

Twas God the Word that spake it,
He took the Bread and brake it:
And what that Word did make it,
That I believe and take it.

-- reputedly spoken by Queen Elizabeth I
 
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Deegie

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Hello, Deegie!
Yes, something can be real and symbolic at the same time, according to Eusebius. I would expect Catholics, Lutherans, and Orthodox to answer that it's both.
Someone who thinks that would still answer "Yes" to the question "Do you consider the Eucharistic ritual food itself to be/have Christ's body?"
The person who believes it's both symbol would not answer "No, it is only a symbol or ritual in effect".

I'm afraid you missed my point. Of course things can be real and symbolic -- consider a processional cross or a Gospel book. They are both material items and symbolic of larger realities. What I said was that things can be both real and spiritual, without being physical/material.
 
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rakovsky

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I'm afraid you missed my point. Of course things can be real and symbolic -- consider a processional cross or a Gospel book. They are both material items and symbolic of larger realities. What I said was that things can be both real and spiritual, without being physical/material.
Hello, Deegie!
Yes, you are right again, "that things can be both real and spiritual, without being physical/material."
Luther's view was that Jesus' real body could either be in physical mode or in "spirit mode", and that Jesus' real body was directly present in the bread itself in this spiritual form of real existence.

My original question was: "Do you consider the Eucharistic ritual food itself to be/have Christ's body?"

Your answer was that "I believe that you have set up a false dichotomy. You seem to be implying that Christ's presence in the Eucharist must either be "real" and physical OR symbolic. Cannot the spiritual be just as real as the physical?"

I did not create a false dichotomy about Jesus' presence in the "ritual food itself".
In Luther's view, Jesus' body is really and directly in the bread itself in spiritual form. In the Catholic view, Jesus' body is really and directly in the bread itself in substantial form.

In the Receptionist view, as the Church of England report said, Jesus' body's "presence is real in the hearts of the recipients only, and not in the elements prior to reception”. Likewise, in Virtualism (Cranmer's position), the Report explains that the spiritual change is that of the elements' "effect."

Therefore, based on the Report the two options about Jesus' presence in the "food itself" are whether
1. Jesus is directly, specifically, actually and really in/as the bread/food itself, (which can be in spiritual or physical form) or whether
2. Jesus is not directly, specifically, actually and really in/as the bread/food itself and instead the food effectively acts as Jesus' body(Cranmer) or as a reminder of it.(Zwingli's memorialism)
 
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rakovsky

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It's interesting to me that as to the question Do you consider the ritual food itself to be/have Christ's real body?
given the choice:
  1. Yes, I'm Anglican, and it objectively and/or directly has and/or is Christ's real, actual body.
  2. No, I'm Anglican and it only is and/or has Christ's body in symbol and/or in ritual effect as a tool
The largest group of responses was "other".
For those people who deny #1, that the food directly has Jesus' real body, yet chose "Other", how would they characterize their response?
How do they consider that bread itself more than Jesus' body in only symbol and effect (Option 2. above)?
 
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Padres1969

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It's interesting to me that as to the question Do you consider the ritual food itself to be/have Christ's real body?
given the choice:
  1. Yes, I'm Anglican, and it objectively and/or directly has and/or is Christ's real, actual body.
  2. No, I'm Anglican and it only is and/or has Christ's body in symbol and/or in ritual effect as a tool
The largest group of responses was "other".
For those people who deny #1, that the food directly has Jesus' real body, yet chose "Other", how would they characterize their response?
How do they consider that bread itself more than Jesus' body in only symbol and effect (Option 2. above)?
As I said earlier I voted Option 4 or Other. My rationale for doing so is that I don't believe Option 2, that the Eucharist is just a symbolic or used for ritual effect. But by the same token, I don't necessarily believe Option 1 that the Eucharist is objectively Christ's actual physical body (ie: the Catholic Transubstantiation view or the similar Consubstantial view). I do believe Christ is actually present in the Eucharist, but what form that real presence takes to me is a mystery of faith that man is not necessarily capable of defining with the specificity Option 1 implies. Hence I chose Option 4 or "Other." I don't necessarily reject the idea that Christ's real presence can ultimately be Option 1, but I just don't see man as being in a position to define such a sacred mystery, nor that man has to do so to appreciate the power of Christ's presence in the sacrament.
 
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rakovsky

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As I said earlier I voted Option 4 or Other. My rationale for doing so is that I don't believe Option 2, that the Eucharist is just a symbolic or used for ritual effect. But by the same token, I don't necessarily believe Option 1 that the Eucharist is objectively Christ's actual physical body (ie: the Catholic Transubstantiation view or the similar Consubstantial view). I do believe Christ is actually present in the Eucharist, but what form that real presence takes to me is a mystery of faith that man is not necessarily capable of defining with the specificity Option 1 implies. Hence I chose Option 4 or "Other." I don't necessarily reject the idea that Christ's real presence can ultimately be Option 1, but I just don't see man as being in a position to define such a sacred mystery, nor that man has to do so to appreciate the power of Christ's presence in the sacrament.
When you say Eucharist, I think you mean the ritual in general, rather than the food in particular?
Because if you mean that it's the food itself, then we have a choice between an actual direct or objective presence in the food itself or else something that Is mental and subjective whereby he is not actually in the food itself.

Since Jesus' spirit can be in believers in particular and throughout the bible different spirit beings can be in physical objects ranging from fire to animals, I don't know why Jesus couldn't be in bread in spirit mode too. But in this thread I am mainly trying to see how Anglicans most often see it, eg if they accept the Articles.
 
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rakovsky

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A big part of the confusion for me in understanding Anglicans when they talk about the Eucharist is because of their terminology. Bp. Guest and the Oxford movement assert that Christ's body is "truly" in the bread, but then they assert that it is not a "corporal presence". OK, that's a big problem, because "corporal" literally means "of a body".

And then the Oxford and Cranmerian camps have opposing understandings of "real presence", "spiritual eating", "spiritual presence", "spiritual body". And both sides will typically claim that they agree on the Articles. So from a few sentences it can be hard for me to see what they mean or whether they have the same views until they directly disagree with each other, like Pusey getting in trouble with the institutional Church of England for his views.
 
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Padres1969

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When you say Eucharist, I think you mean the ritual in general, rather than the food in particular?
Because if you mean that it's the food itself, then we have a choice between an actual direct or objective presence in the food itself or else something that Is mental and subjective whereby he is not actually in the food itself.

Since Jesus' spirit can be in believers in particular and throughout the bible different spirit beings can be in physical objects ranging from fire to animals, I don't know why Jesus couldn't be in bread in spirit mode too. But in this thread I am mainly trying to see how Anglicans most often see it, eg if they accept the Articles.
No I meant the food in particular. I don't see it as being an either/or proposition as you present it. Rather as I stated I see it as a mystery that man is neither capable of comprehending, nor one that man needs to comprehend to appreciate. That Christ is present is all we know, and all we need to know.

Now His presence may be your Option 1, and He could be physically present, but I don't think we can say with certainty if his presence is fully physically manifest. It may only be a metaphysical manifestation of Christ's presence in the Eucharist, not his actual physical body as again Catholics believe. That too my mind does not fit your option 1 but is clearly not your option 2 either as it's more than symbolic.
 
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Padres1969

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A big part of the confusion for me in understanding Anglicans when they talk about the Eucharist is because of their terminology. Bp. Guest and the Oxford movement assert that Christ's body is "truly" in the bread, but then they assert that it is not a "corporal presence". OK, that's a big problem, because "corporal" literally means "of a body".

And then the Oxford and Cranmerian camps have opposing understandings of "real presence", "spiritual eating", "spiritual presence", "spiritual body". And both sides will typically claim that they agree on the Articles. So from a few sentences it can be hard for me to see what they mean or whether they have the same views until they directly disagree with each other, like Pusey getting in trouble with the institutional Church of England for his views.
You're trying to discern if it's one or the other, and that's the mistake you're making. You'll find Anglicans that believe both positions. It's not something that is either one or the other in Anglicanism as a whole. Hence why many of us use the "Real Presence" position and leave it at that regardless of how ambiguous that may seem.
 
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rakovsky

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You're trying to discern if it's one or the other, and that's the mistake you're making. You'll find Anglicans that believe both positions. It's not something that is either one or the other in Anglicanism as a whole.
Anglican scholars however commonly separate the two positions - that of Cranmer (the bread being only virtually/in effect analogous to / metaphorically Jesus' body) and that of the Oxford movement (the bread "truly", "really", "objectively" being and having Jesus' body and its "heavenly substance"). These terms used by the Oxford movement I perceive as concepts in Lutheranism, yet the 16th-17th c. Cranmerian commentaries on the Articles of Religion directly rejected Luther's belief on this.
 
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rakovsky

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  • we have a choice between an actual direct or objective presence in the food itself or else something that Is mental and subjective whereby he is not actually in the food itself.
I don't see it as being an either/or proposition as you present it.
How is a belief in an "actual direct objective presence in the food itself" compatible with a belief that "he is not actually in the food itself"?


Now His presence may be your Option 1, and He could be physically present, but I don't think we can say with certainty if his presence is fully physically manifest. It may only be a metaphysical manifestation of Christ's presence in the Eucharist, not his actual physical body as again Catholics believe. That too my mind does not fit your option 1 but is clearly not your option 2 either as it's more than symbolic.
How does the Lutheran belief that Christ's physical body is not directly in the Eucharist bread, but only his actual body in spirit form, not fit my option 1 of a direct objective presence in bread?

Does your proposal of a non-Catholic metaphysical manifestation (realization/instantiation?) of Christ's presence in bread differ from the Lutheran belief that Christ's actual body takes different forms (eg. Spirit or Physical) and is in spirit form in the bread?
 
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Fish and Bread

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One thing that I find key to understanding Anglicanism historically is the Elizabethan Settlement. As others have mentioned, theology is left vague *by design*.

The beginnings of that come from understanding that lot of blood was shed under King Henry VIII and his son and successor, King Edward IV, trying to change the Church of England from essentially a Roman Catholic Church to an essentially Protestant one (Edward IV in particular really went "low church" with an especially Protestant theology and practice) and then Queen Mary, Henry's daughter with his first wife Catherine, taking the thrown and restoring unity with Rome and shedding so much Protestant blood in making the Church of England Roman Catholic again that she is known to history as Bloody Mary.

So, here comes Queen Elizabeth I, the daughter of King Henry VIII and his second wife, Ann Boleyn, a Protestant. Queen Elizabeth had just inherited a Church of England and a nation that was Roman Catholic again and had gone through not one, but two, bloody changes in religious faith. However, her mother was Protestant and she was Protestant, and the people who helped keep her safe and would keep her safe and keep her in power at the beginning of her reign were Protestant.

Adding to the tension, you had Mary Queen of Scotland (Not the same person as the Queen Mary who preceeded Queen Elizabeth), who was Roman Catholic, and who had a tenuous claim to the British thrown. There were plenty of would-be revolutionaries instead and outside of England (Including, obviously, most Roman Catholic countries) who saw this Scottish Queen Mary as the true Queen of England, or someone who potentially could be if Elizabeth were killed before she produced an heir. Now, as we know, history records Queen Elizabeth as The Virgin Queen. Whether she was or was not a virgin is not really known (Some think she may have had an informal secret concubine), but also not really relevant, because for her off-spring to top Mary Queen of Scots in the line of succession, Elizabeth would have to have a *legitimate* child, which in those days was defined by a child inside of marriage, which meant she needed to marry to do this, and she refused to.

So, Queen Elizabeth, even though she eventually became very popular, reigned a long time, and is considered by history and the British people to be one of England's greatest monarchs, upon first coming to power and in her early years was balancing on a tightrope. She needed to stay alive, of course, first and foremost, and by both the nature of who she'd need to stay alive and her own family history and beliefs, was probably going to have to separate the Church in England from Rome *again*, making it the third switch from Roman Catholic to not Roman Catholic in four monarchies.

The question then became, how to do this without leaving a lot of the country, who were Catholic, plotting against her for the rest of what might have been extremely short stay on the thrown? And, further, how could she placate the Catholics without alienating her Protestant supporters?

Obviously, the most ardent Roman Catholics were not going to accept anything short of full union with Rome and the most ardent Puritan Protestants were not going to accept anything short of getting rid of bishops, crosses, the liturgical calendar, dancing, theater, etc.. *However*, there were, I think she must have felt, and been correct about, a broad swath of people in between- people who kind of wished they had unity with Rome, but could accept not being in union with Rome if they could keep Apostolic Succession, a three-fold ministry of bishops, priests, and deacons, a liturgical calendar with some important feast days and seasons, etc. on the Catholic side, and people who could accept some Catholic trappings and organizational structures on the Protestant side as long as they didn't have to be aligned with the Pope and could have masses in the vernacular (English in England, as opposed to the Latin Roman Catholic masses of the time), mass printings of bibles that people were encouraged to own and read, etc..

So, the thinking was, okay, get the people in the middle on both sides, and you can stabilize the nation and the church, and only have to deal with uprisings and plots from the fringes, and that's basically what she did. She separated from Rome and had perhaps the most Catholic Protestant church or the most Protestant Catholic church in the world at the time. Part of this was by having some things be planted firmly in the middle, and part of it was by trading some things from one side for some things on the other side, but most of it was by basically allowing for enough vagueness in theology that people could kind of be mostly Catholic without the Pope or mostly Protestant with a few extra traditions and organizational habits, and each side could see things their own way and come around a common table for communion on Sunday.

This wasn't a formal document, but essentially it's what's known as the Elizabethan Settlement, which sounds very formal, but is really just a concept. The church was known as Protestant in terms of the politics of Europe, but was pretty open to people who'd have not passed as Protestant in continental European Protestant countries.

Or, to put it more theologically, it's the philosophy of "both, and" or, as the saying goes, commonly attributed to St. Augustine of Hippo (But actually likely to have originated later), "Unity in the Essentials, liberty in the non-essentials, in all things charity".

Saying "Real Presence" and leaving it at that while specifically ruling out transubstantiation and memorialism was not unintentionally vague, it was intentionally vague. It let everyone believe what they wanted to believe- to a point.

Now, as we go forward some years, there is the Anglo-Catholic/Oxford movement of the 19th century to restore Catholic elements that were deemed lost or not recognized enough, and there is this large international Anglican Communion made up of self-governing national churches that each set their own theology and practice, and you've got a via media (middle way) between liberals and conservatives too as well as Anglo-Catholics and Evangelicals and High Church and Low Church.

So, the differences grow even broader.

And, of course, most national churches are simply not bound by the Protestant leaning 39 Articles any more than they are bound by it's more Catholic predecessors. In the US Episcopal Church, it is now considered a historical document, and that's it, not a profession of the faith of every Episcopalian.

And in this forum, you will also find a lot of people who are members of churches that are Anglican by tradition, but are not in the Anglican Communion that the Church of England and the Archbishop of Canterbury are in, and who split for various reasons.

So, the answer to your question depends on a wide variety of factors. You would probably be welcome as a member of most of these churches believing whatever you wanted as long as it somehow fit in with the words "real presence" and involved a reverence for the sacrament in practice during Eucharist services. Some Anglo-Catholics are now even explicitly embracing transubstantiation.

I think the idea is that if you want marching orders, you're not going to get them in most official Anglican provinces except in select areas of the world like Africa. If you want a church that gives you form and substance but respects differences and asks people with some differences to all come together at a common table and share communion together showing that same respect to each other, you might well like most Anglican churches (And of course one may find a particular parish that leans more one's way to attend in one's area than some other parishes).

But if you want the Anglican stance on [fill in the blank], you almost always are going to get back a vague answer that is indicative of a wide range of acceptable responses, but that does perhaps rule out one or two possibilities. :) That's the point. It's supposed to be that way. I know that comes as a foreign concept to people who may have grown up in a tradition that told them they need exact precise answers to everything and must all agree on them or else face the consequences, but you are asking about a different church than whatever you attend or grew up with, so you can expect some foreign concepts. :)

Around the time of Vatican II, it was widely expected that Anglicanism would be the ecumenical bridge that brought Roman Catholicism and the Protestant churches and denominations together. Then Rome went right, and some Anglican provinces went left, and, well, that's probably not going to happen anytime soon. But, essentially, theological vagueness to some degree can be viewed as a strength and not a weakness of Anglicanism.

I also have to say, in modern times, there is something to be said for people who sometimes go back and forth a little bit between feeling Catholic and Protestant, or progressive versus conservative, or high church versus low-church, not having to switch churches every time they wake up on a different side of the bed. :) You just find a parish and go and take communion on Sunday. If it starts to bother you because it leans this way or that and you want a break, take a longer drive and go to another nearby parish that leans a little bit the other way. And it's all the same structure under the same bishops and dioceses and national church structures, with the same prayer book across each nation all based at least loosely on the first English BCP, and all in communion with each other (Well, all the ones that are in the Anglican Communion- not the breakaway churches that keep the name and not the affiliation, obviously). I think that's one way of looking at this tradition, anyhow.
 
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Padres1969

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Anglican scholars however commonly separate the two positions - that of Cranmer (the bread being only virtually/in effect analogous to / metaphorically Jesus' body) and that of the Oxford movement (the bread "truly", "really", "objectively" being and having Jesus' body and its "heavenly substance"). These terms used by the Oxford movement I perceive as concepts in Lutheranism, yet the 16th-17th c. Cranmerian commentaries on the Articles of Religion directly rejected Luther's belief on this.
Yep. You're looking for uniformity of thought on the subject where you're not going to find it.
 
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Padres1969

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How is a belief in an "actual direct objective presence in the food itself" compatible with a belief that "he is not actually in the food itself"?
Because Christ being spiritually present in the Eucharistic feast itself does not necessarily entail that his body is present in the feast itself. It can, but it doesn't require it.
 
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rakovsky

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I like what you said in the beginning, Fish and Bread, except I want to question the bold part here:

So, the thinking was, okay, get the people in the middle on both sides, and you can stabilize the nation and the church, and only have to deal with uprisings and plots from the fringes, and that's basically what she did. She separated from Rome and had perhaps the most Catholic Protestant church or the most Protestant Catholic church in the world at the time. Part of this was by having some things be planted firmly in the middle, and part of it was by trading some things from one side for some things on the other side, but most of it was by basically allowing for enough vagueness in theology that people could kind of be mostly Catholic without the Pope or mostly Protestant with a few extra traditions and organizational habits, and each side could see things their own way and come around a common table for communion on Sunday.

This wasn't a formal document, but essentially it's what's known as the Elizabethan Settlement, which sounds very formal, but is really just a concept. The church was known as Protestant in terms of the politics of Europe, but was pretty open to people who'd have not passed as Protestant in continental European Protestant countries.

Or, to put it more theologically, it's the philosophy of "both, and" or, as the saying goes, commonly attributed to St. Augustine of Hippo (But actually likely to have originated later), "Unity in the Essentials, liberty in the non-essentials, in all things charity".

Saying "Real Presence" and leaving it at that while specifically ruling out transubstantiation and memorialism was not unintentionally vague, it was intentionally vague. It let everyone believe what they wanted to believe- to a point.
It's not clear to me whether the Lutherans or the foundational Anglicans were more "Catholic", ie. closer to RC beliefs and teachings.
Maybe one of the best examples of this for me is the issue of the presence in bread. Lutheranism and Catholicism agree that the food is/has objectively Christ's body, such that both the unworthy and worthy eat it with their mouths. Luther's Book of Concord quotes him as saying that anyone who disagree with this are "Sacramentarians" that he does not have "fellowship" with.

When Article 29 was proposed, titled that "the wicked do not eat the Lord's Body", the pro-Lutheran Bp. Cheyney refused to accept this Article, and he was removed from his position by the Church of England.

So I don't know how to see this as unity in the essentials and liberty in the non-essentials, unless we say that the Anglican Church was in the 16th century "united" around the opposite belief than that of Cheyney.

I sympathize with what you say here:
Now, as we go forward some years, there is the Anglo-Catholic/Oxford movement of the 19th century to restore Catholic elements that were deemed lost or not recognized enough, and there is this large international Anglican Communion made up of self-governing national churches that each set their own theology and practice, and you've got a via media (middle way) between liberals and conservatives too as well as Anglo-Catholics and Evangelicals and High Church and Low Church.

So, the differences grow even broader.

And, of course, most national churches are simply not bound by the Protestant leaning 39 Articles anymore than they are bound by it's more Catholic predecessors. In the US Episcopal Church, it is now considered a historical document, and that's it, not a profession of the faith of every Episcopalian.

And in this forum, you will also find a lot of people who are members of churches that are Anglican by tradition, but are not in the Anglican Communion that the Church of England and the Archbishop of Canterbury are in, and who split for various reasons.

So, the answer to your question depends on a wide variety of factors. You would probably be welcome as a member of most of these churches believing whatever you wanted as long as it somehow fit in with the words "real presence" and involved a reference for the sacrament in practice during Eucharist services. Some Anglo-Catholics are now even explicitly embracing transubstantiation.

I think the idea is that if you want marching orders, you're not going to get them in most official Anglican provinces except in select areas of the world like Africa. If you want a church that gives you form and substance but respects differences and asks people with some differences to all come together at a common table and share communion together showing that same respect to each other, you might well like most Anglican churches (And of course one may find a particular parish that leans more one's way to attend in one's area than some other parishes).

But if you want the Anglican stance on [fill in the blank], you almost always are going to get back a vague answer that is indicative of a wide range of acceptable responses, but that does perhaps rule out one or two possibilities. :) That's the point. It's supposed to be that way. I know that comes as a foreign concept to people who may have grown up in a tradition that told them they need exact precise answers to everything and must all agree on them or else face the consequences, but you are asking about a different church than whatever you attend or grew up with, so you can expect some foreign concepts. :)

Around the time of Vatican II, it was widely expected that Anglicanism would be the ecumenical bridge that brought Roman Catholicism and the Protestant churches and denominations together. Then Rome went right, and some Anglican provinces went left, and, well, that's probably not going to happen anytime soon. But, essentially, theological vagueness to some degree can be viewed as a strength and not a weakness of Anglicanism.

I also have to say, in modern times, there is something to be said for people who sometimes go back and forth a little bit between feeling Catholic and Protestant, or progressive versus conservative, or high church versus low-church, not having to switch churches every time they wake up on a different side of the bed. :) You just find a parish and go and take communion on Sunday. If it starts to bother you because it leans this way or that and you want a break, take a longer drive and go to another nearby parish that leans a little bit the other way. And it's all the same structure under the same bishops and dioceses and national church structures, with the same prayer book across each nation all based at least loosely on the first English BCP, and all in communion with each other (Well, all the ones that are in the Anglican Communion- not the breakaway churches that keep the name and not the affiliation, obviously). I think that's one way of looking at this tradition, anyhow.
 
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rakovsky

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Because Christ being spiritually present in the Eucharistic feast itself does not necessarily entail that his body is present in the feast itself.
You write: "That ... is clearly not your option 2 either as it's more than symbolic."

1. If his body is not actually in the feast, how is his body's presence in the feast metaphysically "more than symbolic"?

2. If his body is not actually in the feast, how is that different than Option 2, "whereby he is not actually in the food itself"?

3. If you say "spiritually present" and don't mean that His Spirit itself is in the food, then aren't you using the word "spiritual" presence the same way Cranmer talks about "spiritual eating" or Anglican theologian Marcus Borg talks about Jesus' bodily resurrection being "spiritually true"? In other words, you mean that the words you are using ("presence", "eating") are analogies to other things, not what the words literally mean?
 
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Paidiske

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1. If his body is not actually in the feast, how is his body's presence in the feast metaphysically "more than symbolic"?

Because it is effectual.

What I mean is, if you do not understand the elements to be transubstantiated, but you know that Christ is present to those who partake in a way which means Christ is actually, really present to and active in that person, that is more than a symbolic presence or a metaphor of presence.

The presence makes a difference; it "does stuff." It is effectual.

Does that make sense?
 
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