Futurist Only Babilon

[tranquil]

Probably so. Let's say he is a descendant of David.

Then we go to Isaiah 14, and the person finds himself in hell for a brief stay for claiming to be God - and is cast out of the grave, brought back to life... and is likened to an abominable "branch" who destroys his land and his people Jesus was called the righteous branch. So it is making a directly opposite comparison.

Which, dfw, if the person is brought back to life in Isaiah 14 - how are you discounting him by saying that there is a final Antichrist, another person following him, if I understand you correctly ?

I don't know how you are getting two persons. You know that "the" Christ is not just an anointed, but one unique person, who is the rightful King of Israel that God has sent. "The" Antichrist is one unique person, just as Jesus is one unique person.

The Antichrist is not an office of rotating individuals.

Let's just point out off the bat that Chabad- Lubavitch Judaism (the quoted link below) is thinly veiled Satanism (it follows the Kabalah interpretation of things). So, here is how Satanists (aka "pious Zionist Chabad Kabalists") view the "2 person" thing & Gog.

http://www.chabad.org/library/moshiach/article_cdo/aid/1108919/jewish/Gog-and-Magog.htm

According to tradition, the central personality in this war is Moshiach ben Yosef—Moshiach of the tribe of Joseph. Jewish tradition speaks of two redeemers, each one called Moshiach. Both are involved in ushering in the Messianic Era. They are Moshiach ben David and Moshiach ben Yosef. (The unqualified term "Moshiach," however, belongs exclusively to Moshiach ben David, the ultimate redeemer.)

Moshiach ben Yosef will be killed in the war against Gog and Magog. Again, it is unclear whether the death will be in physical battle, or as a result of the spiritual battles which he will wage against the forces of evil. Either way, the prophet Zechariah (12:10) describes the national mourning that will follow his death.

Apparently, though, the death of Moshiach ben Yosef is not inevitable. The master-kabbalist Rabbi Isaac Luria, known as the Arizal, said that when saying in the Amidah the words, "speedily establish the throne of Your servant David," one should beseech G‑d that Moshiach ben Yosef should not die in the course of his struggles.

According to certain sources, Moshiach be Yosef will serve as Moshiach ben David's viceroy. Thus finally bringing to an end the schism between the northern Ten Tribes, which were ruled by Joseph's descendants, and the Kingdom of Judea, which was ruled by the Davidic dynasty.

Jewish tradition speaks of two redeemers, each one called Mashiach. Both are involved in ushering in the Messianic era. They are Mashiach ben David and Mashiach ben Yossef.1

The term Mashiach unqualified always refers to Mashiach ben David (Mashiach the descendant of David) of the tribe of Judah. He is the actual (final) redeemer who shall rule in the Messianic age. All that was said in our text relates to him.

Mashiach ben Yossef (Mashiach the descendant of Joseph) of the tribe of Ephraim (son of Joseph), is also referred to as Mashiach ben Ephrayim, Mashiach the descendant of Ephraim.2 He will come first, before the final redeemer, and later will serve as his viceroy.3

The essential task of Mashiach ben Yossef is to act as precursor to Mashiach ben David: he will prepare the world for the coming of the final redeemer. Different sources attribute to him different functions, some even charging him with tasks traditionally associated with Mashiach ben David (such as the ingathering of the exiles, the rebuilding of the Bet Hamikdash, and so forth).4

The principal and final function ascribed to Mashiach ben Yossef is of political and military nature. He shall wage war against the forces of evil that oppress Israel. More specifically, he will do battle against Edom, the descendants of Esau.Obadiah 1:18): "the progeny of Esau shall be delivered only into the hands of the progeny of Joseph."7

This ultimate confrontation between Joseph and Esau is alluded already in the very birth of Joseph when his mother Rachel exclaimed, "G‑d has taken away my disgrace" (Genesis 30:23): with prophetic vision she foresaw that an "anointed savior" will descend from Joseph and that he will remove the disgrace of Israel.8 In this context she called his name "Yossef, saying 'yossef Hashem - may G‑d add to me ben acher (lit., another son), i.e., ben acharono shel olam - one who will be at the end of the world's time,'9 from which it follows that 'meshu'ach milchamah - one anointed for battle' will descend from Joseph."10

The immediate results of this warZechariah 12:10).12 His death will be followed by a period of great calamities. These new tribulations shall be the final test for Israel, and shortly thereafter Mashiach ben David shall come, avenge his death, resurrect him, and inaugurate the Messianic era of everlasting peace and bliss.13

This, in brief, is the general perception of the "second Mashiach," the descendant of Joseph through the tribe of Ephraim.

Quite significantly, R. Saadiah Gaon (one of the few to elaborate on the role of Mashiach ben Yossef) notes that this sequence is not definite but contingent! Mashiach ben Yossef will not have to appear before Mashiach ben David, nor will the activities attributed to him or his death have to occur. All depends on the spiritual condition of the Jewish people at the time the redemption is to take place:

The essential function of Mashiach ben Yossef is to prepare Israel for the final redemption, to put them into the proper condition in order to clear the way for Mashiach ben David to come. Of that ultimate redemption it is said, that if Israel repent (return to G‑d) they shall be redeemed immediately (even before the predetermined date for Mashiach's coming). If they will not repent and thus become dependent on the final date, "the Holy One, blessed be He, will set up a ruler over them, whose decrees shall be as cruel as Haman's, thus causing Israel to repent, and thereby bringing them back to the right path."14 In other words, if Israel shall return to G‑d on their own and make themselves worthy of the redemption, there is no need for the trials and tribulations associated with the above account of events related to Mashiach ben Yossef. Mashiach ben David will come directly and redeem us.15
​

Messiah Ben Joseph would be the 7th antichrist and is resurrected by the subsequent Messiah ben David. Whether Messiah ben David is the "8th head" of Satan or the resurrected Ben Joseph is the 8th head is up for debate.

Clearly the 2 horned False Prophet refers to being the king of the united northern 10 tribes Israel and 2 tribed Judah.

 

[dfw69]

Probably so. Let's say he is a descendant of David.

But that is what I'm saying ...the final antichrist is not a son of David ...the man you believe will die be resurrected is the son of Assyria , born in Babylon , born a gentile under Gentile rule, born under noachide law...

This is how Isaiah 14 will be fulfilled, This man you believe to be the final antichrist will be killed by Jesus and not buried in the grave but cast alive into the lake of fire along with his false prophet ...

Then we go to Isaiah 14, and the person finds himself in hell for a brief stay for claiming to be God -

No ...he is in hell because Jesus has come and slain him... His body on display not yet buried ...for men to see that he was not a god but a man

and is cast out of the grave, brought back to life... and is likened to an abominable "branch" who destroys his land and his people Jesus was called the righteous branch. So it is making a directly opposite comparison.

Which, dfw, if the person is brought back to life in Isaiah 14 - how are you discounting him by saying that there is a final Antichrist, another person following him, if I understand you correctly ?

Once he is killed by Jesus his soul is in hell mocked..his body dead on the streets for all to witness that he was no God for God cannot die proving he was a mere man ... Then he will be resurrected by Christ or God (and not buried) to face his judgement to be cast into the lake of fire along with the false prophet ... They will be the first two to enter into eternal judgement which is the second death

I don't know how you are getting two persons. You know that "the" Christ is not just an anointed, but one unique person, who is the rightful King of Israel that God has sent. "The" Antichrist is one unique person, just as Jesus is one unique person.

The Antichrist is not an office of rotating individuals.

An antichrist is an ideology of denial that the true messiah is Jesus

I believe the Zionist government will find their messiah and establish Judah kingdom first ... This does not fit in with our beliefs ..maybe that is why you seemed confused ...This is their beliefs ...this is what it will take to make Jews believe and follow a false messiah ...this will establish the new era consisting of New laws, New temple,10 kings ,babylon rebuilt , Israel territory enlarge and Israel 10 lost tribes restored and given land

Remember Doug Jesus said in these times there will be many false messiahs ... If the Jews establish King David's throne then there is no telling how many sons of David will rule in succession before the Assyrian comes ...understand ?.... That the sons of David on the throne are the false messiahs Jesus was referring too... That when one son dies another will take his place because it is said that the throne of David will never end...so it will seem that the messianic prophecies are coming true...


I believe the false messianic age will be well in placed before the Assyrian, who is the final antichrist , comes

 

[Douggg]

But that is what I'm saying ...the final antichrist is not a son of David ...the man you believe will die be resurrected is the son of Assyria , born in Babylon , born a gentile under Gentile rule, born under noachide law...

19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.


He would not be likened as the abominable branch if weren't a Jew. Jesus being the righteous branch.

The land he destroys (actually by transgression of the covenant he violates, but confirmed earlier - the Mt. Sinai covenant) - is Israel, not Assyria; and the people he destroys - his own people the Jews - not the Assyrians, nor Babylonians. The person is a Jew, not a gentile.

The context which he could be called the Assyrian is that he will become possessed by the disembodied spirit of Nimrod, who is an Assyrian and Babylonian - and whose name is mentioned in Micah 5. Why not the land of Nebuchadnezzar? Because Nebuchadnezzar is not the beast in the bottomless pit.

6 And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.

This is how Isaiah 14 will be fulfilled, This man you believe to be the final antichrist will be killed by Jesus and not buried in the grave but cast alive into the lake of fire along with his false prophet ...

Let me be clear. I don't speak or think in terms of "final" antichrist. I don't see that in the bible either. There will be one "the" Antichrist.

The person who becomes the Antichrist, King of Israel (illegitimate) will be revealed as the man of sin. And for the act of transgressing the covenant - by going into the temple and claiming to be God - God has him killed. That is in Ezekiel 28:1-10.

Then that same person finds himself in hell, taunted. And God in disdain for the person brings him back to life. (just like all the unrighteous dead someday will themselves be brought back to life for the judgement).

Which a little over 3 1/2 years later after being brought back to life, that same person as the beast receives the second death - cast alive into the lake of fire.

 

[dfw69]

Let's just point out off the bat that Chabad- Lubavitch Judaism (the quoted link below) is thinly veiled Satanism (it follows the Kabalah interpretation of things). So, here is how Satanists (aka "pious Zionist Chabad Kabalists") view the "2 person" thing & Gog.

http://www.chabad.org/library/moshiach/article_cdo/aid/1108919/jewish/Gog-and-Magog.htm

According to tradition, the central personality in this war is Moshiach ben Yosef—Moshiach of the tribe of Joseph. Jewish tradition speaks of two redeemers, each one called Moshiach. Both are involved in ushering in the Messianic Era. They are Moshiach ben David and Moshiach ben Yosef. (The unqualified term "Moshiach," however, belongs exclusively to Moshiach ben David, the ultimate redeemer.)

Moshiach ben Yosef will be killed in the war against Gog and Magog. Again, it is unclear whether the death will be in physical battle, or as a result of the spiritual battles which he will wage against the forces of evil. Either way, the prophet Zechariah (12:10) describes the national mourning that will follow his death.

Apparently, though, the death of Moshiach ben Yosef is not inevitable. The master-kabbalist Rabbi Isaac Luria, known as the Arizal, said that when saying in the Amidah the words, "speedily establish the throne of Your servant David," one should beseech G‑d that Moshiach ben Yosef should not die in the course of his struggles.

According to certain sources, Moshiach be Yosef will serve as Moshiach ben David's viceroy. Thus finally bringing to an end the schism between the northern Ten Tribes, which were ruled by Joseph's descendants, and the Kingdom of Judea, which was ruled by the Davidic dynasty.

Jewish tradition speaks of two redeemers, each one called Mashiach. Both are involved in ushering in the Messianic era. They are Mashiach ben David and Mashiach ben Yossef.1

The term Mashiach unqualified always refers to Mashiach ben David (Mashiach the descendant of David) of the tribe of Judah. He is the actual (final) redeemer who shall rule in the Messianic age. All that was said in our text relates to him.

Mashiach ben Yossef (Mashiach the descendant of Joseph) of the tribe of Ephraim (son of Joseph), is also referred to as Mashiach ben Ephrayim, Mashiach the descendant of Ephraim.2 He will come first, before the final redeemer, and later will serve as his viceroy.3

The essential task of Mashiach ben Yossef is to act as precursor to Mashiach ben David: he will prepare the world for the coming of the final redeemer. Different sources attribute to him different functions, some even charging him with tasks traditionally associated with Mashiach ben David (such as the ingathering of the exiles, the rebuilding of the Bet Hamikdash, and so forth).4

The principal and final function ascribed to Mashiach ben Yossef is of political and military nature. He shall wage war against the forces of evil that oppress Israel. More specifically, he will do battle against Edom, the descendants of Esau.Obadiah 1:18): "the progeny of Esau shall be delivered only into the hands of the progeny of Joseph."7

This ultimate confrontation between Joseph and Esau is alluded already in the very birth of Joseph when his mother Rachel exclaimed, "G‑d has taken away my disgrace" (Genesis 30:23): with prophetic vision she foresaw that an "anointed savior" will descend from Joseph and that he will remove the disgrace of Israel.8 In this context she called his name "Yossef, saying 'yossef Hashem - may G‑d add to me ben acher (lit., another son), i.e., ben acharono shel olam - one who will be at the end of the world's time,'9 from which it follows that 'meshu'ach milchamah - one anointed for battle' will descend from Joseph."10

The immediate results of this warZechariah 12:10).12 His death will be followed by a period of great calamities. These new tribulations shall be the final test for Israel, and shortly thereafter Mashiach ben David shall come, avenge his death, resurrect him, and inaugurate the Messianic era of everlasting peace and bliss.13

This, in brief, is the general perception of the "second Mashiach," the descendant of Joseph through the tribe of Ephraim.

Quite significantly, R. Saadiah Gaon (one of the few to elaborate on the role of Mashiach ben Yossef) notes that this sequence is not definite but contingent! Mashiach ben Yossef will not have to appear before Mashiach ben David, nor will the activities attributed to him or his death have to occur. All depends on the spiritual condition of the Jewish people at the time the redemption is to take place:

The essential function of Mashiach ben Yossef is to prepare Israel for the final redemption, to put them into the proper condition in order to clear the way for Mashiach ben David to come. Of that ultimate redemption it is said, that if Israel repent (return to G‑d) they shall be redeemed immediately (even before the predetermined date for Mashiach's coming). If they will not repent and thus become dependent on the final date, "the Holy One, blessed be He, will set up a ruler over them, whose decrees shall be as cruel as Haman's, thus causing Israel to repent, and thereby bringing them back to the right path."14 In other words, if Israel shall return to G‑d on their own and make themselves worthy of the redemption, there is no need for the trials and tribulations associated with the above account of events related to Mashiach ben Yossef. Mashiach ben David will come directly and redeem us.15
​

Messiah Ben Joseph would be the 7th antichrist and is resurrected by the subsequent Messiah ben David. Whether Messiah ben David is the "8th head" of Satan or the resurrected Ben Joseph is the 8th head is up for debate.

Clearly the 2 horned False Prophet refers to being the king of the united northern 10 tribes Israel and 2 tribed Judah.

Yes I believe so...I agree

I believe that one of the sons of David ruling in the future will believe that the Assyrian born in Babylon is God and will one day become his false prophet and the sign will be a statue or golem in the image of the Assyrian placed in the temple which will come to life by sorcery ... And when this happens 3 new laws will be added to the 613 laws thereby condemning all those who reject these new laws ...

Law 1 worship the image of the Assyrian
Law 2 worship the Assyrian as God
Law 3 no man bye or sell unless he recieved the mark of the assyrian consisting of his name his number his emblem

 

[Douggg]

Messiah Ben Joseph would be the 7th antichrist and is resurrected by the subsequent Messiah ben David. Whether Messiah ben David is the "8th head" of Satan or the resurrected Ben Joseph is the 8th head is up for debate.

Clearly the 2 horned False Prophet refers to being the king of the united northern 10 tribes Israel and 2 tribed Judah.

Okay, you did your research of what the Jews believe (a number of them), which is good for our understanding of the end times scenario, because what they believe is what will lead them to be deceived.

Forget the 7th antichrist stuff. There is going to be only one "the" Antichrist.

We are dealing with that one person. And the other person who will be the false prophet.

In the Jews two messiahs view - we can marry those concepts as....

Messiah ben Joseph = the Antichrist, later becomes the beast after being resurrected
Messiah ben David = the false prophet

....don't you think?


I have talked to the Jews at MessiahTruth.com about messiah ben Joseph, and they said it is not strongly held. I think Chabad.org talks about it because a lot of Chabad is New York City Jews who thought R. Scheerson was the messiah, to the extend that many of them think R. Schneerson will fulfill the messianic actions after being specially resurrected.

The critics (within Chabad) scream (of the R. Schneerson resurrection belief) - this is Christianity! There are some You Tube videos by Jews themselves critizing R. Schneerson's second coming

Keep up the good work in your research by the way. Another good one to look at is Judaism 101.com, the mashiach. That one is real important, essential for us understanding the end times scenario.

 

[dfw69]

19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.


He would not be likened as the abominable branch if weren't a Jew. Jesus being the righteous branch.

What is a Jew Doug ? Every man is born with foreskin ... It's when he enters into covenant with God and the law he becomes Jewish .. When he converts to Judaism ...he does not have to be from one of the tribes to be considered Jewish ... Only needs to convert ...though some would disagree but in the eyes of God if a stranger converted to Judaism he is as much Jewish as a son of the tribes of Israel ...in fact that will probably be his case against the sons of David or sanhedrine

The land he destroys (actually by transgression of the covenant he violates, but confirmed earlier - the Mt. Sinai covenant) - is Israel, not Assyria; and the people he destroys - his own people the Jews - not the Assyrians, nor Babylonians. The person is a Jew, not a gentile.

Jew by conversion ... Born a gentile not a true son of the tribes of Israel ...who will claim to be the God of Israel it seems ...

Let me be clear. I don't speak or think in terms of "final" antichrist. I don't see that in the bible either. There will be one "the" Antichrist.

Doug I know you are referring to only one antichrist ... And I mean no offense to you ... I use the term final antichrist to make people understand my views...

The bible say ..you have heard that "antichrist"comes even now there are "many "antichrist so we know the time draws near... This scripture to me implies there will be a specific antichrist that the believers were taught most likely referring to the final antichrist... But the scripture also says there are many antichrist now.... I understand that to be an ideology ...a spirit if you will..

If the Jews establish David's throne again and the sons of David began to rule in succession and time past would you still believe Jesus is still to come or would you say you were wrong in your belief and convert to Judaism ?....

 

[Douggg]

Clearly the 2 horned False Prophet refers to being the king of the united northern 10 tribes Israel and 2 tribed Judah.
Yes I believe so...I agree

Where is the fainting icon? I could use it now.

The two horns on the false prophet like those of a lamb - is because Jesus our high priest is the Lamb of God. In contrast, and in similitude, the false prophet will be the high priest during the Antichrist's time, when the animal sacrifices are resumed.

As high priest, when the time comes, and the animal sacrifices stopped, he forces everyone to worship the beast and the image of the beast. So the second beast is tied to worship. That he preforms miracles, ties him to being a false prophet.

1 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, [like Jesus our high priest in heaven] and he spake as a dragon. [carries out the devil's agenda]

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

 

[dfw69]

Where is the fainting icon? I could use it now.

Lol

The two horns on the false prophet like those of a lamb - is because Jesus our high priest is the Lamb of God. In contrast, and in similitude, the false prophet will be the high priest during the Antichrist's time, when the animal sacrifices are resumed.

Jesus will also be King over Judah and Israel ... So it seems the false prophet could claim to Jesus

As high priest, when the time comes, and the animal sacrifices stopped, he forces everyone to worship the beast and the image of the beast. So the second beast is tied to worship. That he preforms miracles, ties him to being a false prophet.

Perhaps the King and high priest duties will be unified

1 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, [like Jesus our high priest in heaven] and he spake as a dragon. [carries out the devil's agenda]

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

This seems to suggest that the false prophet is a false Elijah calling down fire

Will Jesus have 2 horns in the future will he not take 2 sticks to make one people Israel and Judah ?.... The false prophet will seek to do the same unite the world Jew and gentile

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Here you go Doug.

 

[dfw69]

Here you go Doug.

Don't encourage him sis ... Lol

 

[dfw69]

Let's just point out off the bat that Chabad- Lubavitch Judaism (the quoted link below) is thinly veiled Satanism (it follows the Kabalah interpretation of things). So, here is how Satanists (aka "pious Zionist Chabad Kabalists") view the "2 person" thing & Gog.

http://www.chabad.org/library/moshiach/article_cdo/aid/1108919/jewish/Gog-and-Magog.htm

According to tradition, the central personality in this war is Moshiach ben Yosef—Moshiach of the tribe of Joseph. Jewish tradition speaks of two redeemers, each one called Moshiach. Both are involved in ushering in the Messianic Era. They are Moshiach ben David and Moshiach ben Yosef. (The unqualified term "Moshiach," however, belongs exclusively to Moshiach ben David, the ultimate redeemer.)

Moshiach ben Yosef will be killed in the war against Gog and Magog. Again, it is unclear whether the death will be in physical battle, or as a result of the spiritual battles which he will wage against the forces of evil. Either way, the prophet Zechariah (12:10) describes the national mourning that will follow his death.

Apparently, though, the death of Moshiach ben Yosef is not inevitable. The master-kabbalist Rabbi Isaac Luria, known as the Arizal, said that when saying in the Amidah the words, "speedily establish the throne of Your servant David," one should beseech G‑d that Moshiach ben Yosef should not die in the course of his struggles.

According to certain sources, Moshiach be Yosef will serve as Moshiach ben David's viceroy. Thus finally bringing to an end the schism between the northern Ten Tribes, which were ruled by Joseph's descendants, and the Kingdom of Judea, which was ruled by the Davidic dynasty.

Jewish tradition speaks of two redeemers, each one called Mashiach. Both are involved in ushering in the Messianic era. They are Mashiach ben David and Mashiach ben Yossef.1

The term Mashiach unqualified always refers to Mashiach ben David (Mashiach the descendant of David) of the tribe of Judah. He is the actual (final) redeemer who shall rule in the Messianic age. All that was said in our text relates to him.

Mashiach ben Yossef (Mashiach the descendant of Joseph) of the tribe of Ephraim (son of Joseph), is also referred to as Mashiach ben Ephrayim, Mashiach the descendant of Ephraim.2 He will come first, before the final redeemer, and later will serve as his viceroy.3

The essential task of Mashiach ben Yossef is to act as precursor to Mashiach ben David: he will prepare the world for the coming of the final redeemer. Different sources attribute to him different functions, some even charging him with tasks traditionally associated with Mashiach ben David (such as the ingathering of the exiles, the rebuilding of the Bet Hamikdash, and so forth).4

The principal and final function ascribed to Mashiach ben Yossef is of political and military nature. He shall wage war against the forces of evil that oppress Israel. More specifically, he will do battle against Edom, the descendants of Esau.Obadiah 1:18): "the progeny of Esau shall be delivered only into the hands of the progeny of Joseph."7

This ultimate confrontation between Joseph and Esau is alluded already in the very birth of Joseph when his mother Rachel exclaimed, "G‑d has taken away my disgrace" (Genesis 30:23): with prophetic vision she foresaw that an "anointed savior" will descend from Joseph and that he will remove the disgrace of Israel.8 In this context she called his name "Yossef, saying 'yossef Hashem - may G‑d add to me ben acher (lit., another son), i.e., ben acharono shel olam - one who will be at the end of the world's time,'9 from which it follows that 'meshu'ach milchamah - one anointed for battle' will descend from Joseph."10

The immediate results of this warZechariah 12:10).12 His death will be followed by a period of great calamities. These new tribulations shall be the final test for Israel, and shortly thereafter Mashiach ben David shall come, avenge his death, resurrect him, and inaugurate the Messianic era of everlasting peace and bliss.13

This, in brief, is the general perception of the "second Mashiach," the descendant of Joseph through the tribe of Ephraim.

Quite significantly, R. Saadiah Gaon (one of the few to elaborate on the role of Mashiach ben Yossef) notes that this sequence is not definite but contingent! Mashiach ben Yossef will not have to appear before Mashiach ben David, nor will the activities attributed to him or his death have to occur. All depends on the spiritual condition of the Jewish people at the time the redemption is to take place:

The essential function of Mashiach ben Yossef is to prepare Israel for the final redemption, to put them into the proper condition in order to clear the way for Mashiach ben David to come. Of that ultimate redemption it is said, that if Israel repent (return to G‑d) they shall be redeemed immediately (even before the predetermined date for Mashiach's coming). If they will not repent and thus become dependent on the final date, "the Holy One, blessed be He, will set up a ruler over them, whose decrees shall be as cruel as Haman's, thus causing Israel to repent, and thereby bringing them back to the right path."14 In other words, if Israel shall return to G‑d on their own and make themselves worthy of the redemption, there is no need for the trials and tribulations associated with the above account of events related to Mashiach ben Yossef. Mashiach ben David will come directly and redeem us.15
​

Messiah Ben Joseph would be the 7th antichrist and is resurrected by the subsequent Messiah ben David. Whether Messiah ben David is the "8th head" of Satan or the resurrected Ben Joseph is the 8th head is up for debate.

Clearly the 2 horned False Prophet refers to being the king of the united northern 10 tribes Israel and 2 tribed Judah.

Could Elijah (with Enoch ) be seen as messiah been Joseph ?... Who will also seek Israel to be one with Judah under the new covenant and be killed by the Assyrian when the Assyrian leads a vast army gathered at my Megiddo against all of Israel to wipe them out ... Elijah will be resurrected as with Enoch after 3 days and be seen raptured up towards heaven just before Jesus returns the true messiah Ben David ..

The children of Israel will mourn their death but the followers of the Assyrian will send gifts and rejoice over their deaths for 3 days

Also I believe Enoch and Elijah will teach that the coming messiah Ben David is in fact Jesus the God of the whole house of Israel ...

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Don't encourage him sis ... Lol

LOL

 

[Bible2+]

Douggg said in post 137:

NOT JUST ANYONE....qualifies as the Antichrist.... and not simply on the basis of being against Jesus alone.

Amen.

For the existence of many antichrists (1 John 2:18) doesn't contradict there will be an individual man (2 Thessalonians 2:3,4,9, Revelation 13:4-18) who is commonly called the Antichrist, just as on the side of good, the existence of many sons of God (John 1:12) doesn't contradict there is an individual man (Jesus Christ of Nazareth) who is the Son of God (John 20:31).

The man commonly called the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit (at least one time) in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18) and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7), and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13), who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15), and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will ultimately be cast into the lake of fire at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3).

*******

Douggg said in post 139:

Then we go to Isaiah 14, and the person finds himself in hell for a brief stay for claiming to be God - and is cast out of the grave, brought back to life... and is likened to an abominable "branch" who destroys his land and his people Jesus was called the righteous branch.

Isaiah 14:12-14 could refer to Lucifer's original fall into rebellion, by desiring to abandon an earthly assignment in Eden watching over Adam (Ezekiel 28:13-15), and vowing to ascend back into heaven, and to rule over the angels there, and to sit along with God in an exalted position in heaven, regardless of what God wants.

Note that nothing requires that Isaiah 14:20 is addressing the Antichrist instead of Lucifer (Isaiah 14:12-20). Also, the land and people in Isaiah 14:20 aren't the land of Israel and Jews. For Isaiah 14:20 isn't addressing a king of Israel, but a king of Babylon (Isaiah 14:4) who will destroy the whole world (Isaiah 14:17). And Lucifer/Satan would be the spiritual king of the figurative Babylon which encompasses the whole world (Revelation chapters 17-18).

*******

Douggg said in post 140:

This passage would not make any sense to be timed at the end of the 1000 years.

Ezekiel 39:
28 Then shall they know that I am the Lord their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God.

Ezekiel 39:28-29, like Ezekiel 39:22, won't be fulfilled until after the future millennium and the subsequent Gog/Magog event (Revelation 20:7-10). Ezekiel 39:22-29 means that near the end of the safe time of the future millennium (Ezekiel 38:11), the mortal Israelites living on the earth will have become complacent and backslidden away from God (Ezekiel 39:26,7). So, after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-10), as a punishment, God will let them be taken into captivity (Ezekiel 39:23-29) during the Gog/Magog time (Ezekiel 38:11-13). God will then bring judgment against Gog and Magog, and the mortal Israelites will return to being faithful to God (Ezekiel 39:21-29).

*******

Douggg said in post 143:

He would not be likened as the abominable branch if weren't a Jew.

Note that Satan himself, just as any elect Gentile, can be called a branch.

For just as all believers (whether Jews or Gentiles) are individual branches in the vine which is Jesus (John 15:5), the only way to salvation (John 14:6, Acts 4:12), so all believers are individual branches in the good olive tree of Israel, the Jews' own tree (Romans 11:17,24, Jeremiah 11:16-17). For all Jewish believers remain part of Israel (Romans 11:1) as the natural branches in the tree of Israel (Romans 11:24). And all Gentile believers have been grafted as branches from a wild olive tree into the tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), so they can partake of the salvation of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). This doesn't mean that a wild branch becomes a natural branch, that a Gentile believer becomes a genetic Jew, but that Gentile believers, even while remaining branches from a wild olive tree, even while remaining genetic Gentiles, are still grafted in to become part of the good olive tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24).

 

[Bible2+]

dfw69 said in post 142:

I believe the Zionist government will find their messiah and establish Judah kingdom first ...

Actually, the current, Zionist government of Israel is opposed to any idea of a future "Messiah", who will, for example, rebuild the Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

That is, one reason that the 3rd Jewish temple of Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 hasn't been built yet is the Israeli government has been very careful to protect the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque ever since Israel took military control of the Temple Mount back in 1967. For the Israeli government knows that if the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel were to destroy these buildings (the 3rd-holiest sites in Islam) in order to clear the Temple Mount for a 3rd Jewish temple, this could mean the end of the current state of Israel. For enraged Muslim armies and militias could attack Israel en masse in an all-out jihad and defeat it completely.

While the ultra-Orthodox Jews are no doubt aware of this danger, they believe that the 3rd temple must nonetheless be built exactly where the prior temples stood: right over the Rock of Sacrifice (the Rock of the Dome of the Rock) on which Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac. And the ultra-Orthodox Jews could be brought to the point where they will even desire to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel, believing that only in its demise will God make it possible for them to establish a new, perfectly ultra-Orthodox, theocratic city-state of (what they could call ) "the True Israel". They could establish this within the walled Old City of Jerusalem (which contains the Temple Mount), and build on the Temple Mount a 3rd Jewish temple before which they can restart the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, and perfectly keep every jot and tittle of the Mosaic law, and banish every non-kosher person and thing from ever entering within Old Jerusalem's "Holy walls".

(This could point to another reason that the current, secular government of Israel doesn't want to let the ultra-Orthodox Jews build a 3rd temple: out of fear that the secular authority of the Israeli government could subsequently get undermined. For once temple practices resumed and a priesthood came into power, a creep toward theocracy could ensue in Israel, where priests and rabbis would become powerful enough to replace the secular leaders in Israel. So the secular leaders could want to simply place a hold on any drift in that direction by forbidding the building of a 3rd temple.)

Something which could help to bring the ultra-Orthodox Jews to the point of desiring to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel would be them getting squeezed out of their settlements in "Samaria and Judaea" (also called the "West Bank"), and in eastern Jerusalem, as part of a peace deal handing these areas over to a Palestinian state. (Any such handover won't happen without a removal of Netanyahu from power, possibly by assassination.) For the ultra-Orthodox Jews (rightly) see Samaria, Judaea, and Jerusalem as the historically most important and holy parts of the land promised by God to Israel since the time of Abraham (Exodus 32:13). So when they start to get squeezed out of these areas, in a rage they could suddenly mass in their tens of thousands, armed with machine guns (which they are allowed to have for self-defense against the Palestinians). And led by 3 huge bulldozers, they could march as a great army to the Old City of Jerusalem, and go up onto the Temple Mount and completely destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque.

(A fear of the ultra-Orthodox Jews resorting to violence could be one of the reasons that the Israeli government refuses to hinder Jewish settlement activity in Samaria, Judaea, and eastern Jerusalem. It could also be one of the reasons that the U.S. government has been convinced by Israel to back off from requiring any such hindrance. But if down the road, pressure from the Arab masses for a Palestinian state becomes so extreme that it begins to threaten to overthrow U.S. hegemony over the Arab world, the U.S. could decide to force Israel to surrender all of the Jewish settlements to a Palestinian state.)

Besides getting squeezed out of their settlements at some point in our future, something else which could help to tip the scales toward the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent would be the rising up of a miracle-working, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (cf. Matthew 24:24), who could tell the ultra-Orthodox Jews something like:

"God says that now is the time for us to take back religious control of the Holy Temple Mount, and rid it of all the detestable shrines which the Muslims have placed upon it. We are to sanctify it in the name of our God, so that we might rebuild His Holy Temple there. Listen, my brethren, fear not the Muslims' reaction when we retake religious control of the Holy Temple Mount. For God Himself is with us. He will protect us perfectly. Have I not shown you His mighty Power working through Me? Fear not any men, but fear only our Mighty God, who now commands us to rebuild His Holy Temple at the place which He determined from the time of our Father Abraham. Our God gave us back the Holy Temple Mount way back in 1967 C.E. But what have we done with it over all the time since then? Nothing! How can this be? How can we have allowed some merely-secular, so-called 'Israeli' government invented by sinful men to keep us, God's holy people, from even setting foot back on the Temple Mount, and to let it remain under the religious control of the vile Muslims? Let us all rise up now, my brethren! Let us all rise up, in the name of our God, and let us do mighty exploits to the Glory of His Holy Name!"

With such rhetoric, accompanied by his working of amazing miracles (cf. Matthew 24:24), a false ultra-Orthodox Jewish "Messiah" in Israel could whip up the ultra-Orthodox Jews there into a religious frenzy, so that they will all with great zeal, and without any fear, march in their tens of thousands upon the Temple Mount, and take total control of it, and then rejoice there and dance and sing holy hymns to God "for His great and mighty Victory".

Something else which could help tip the scales toward the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is the occurrence of a series of great earthquakes in Jerusalem which will severely damage the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa Mosque, to the point where they will stop being used. For the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see this as (in their words) "Clearly a portent from God that he will no longer allow Muslims to trample His Holy Mountain. We must now reassert total Jewish control over it and rebuild His Holy Temple there".

Something else which could help tip the scales toward the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is their finding out the location of the Ark of the Covenant, which could be buried under an ancient ruined fort in the desert east of Jerusalem. The Copper Scroll could contain the clues as to where the Ark is buried in the fort (e.g. "under the third step"). The Ark could have been located there already with ground-penetrating radar by some non-religious treasure hunters, but the Israeli government could be holding up a digging permit to retrieve the Ark, because the government is afraid that the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see a retrieval of the Ark as (in their words) "An unmistakable sign from God that now is the time for us to rebuild His Holy Temple". So the Israeli government has a motive to keep the location of the buried Ark top secret.

Fearing that some ultra-Orthodox Jews could nonetheless somehow discover the top secret location of the buried Ark, and go there in the dead of night and dig it up without a permit from, or any notification to, the Israeli government, the government could have placed armed guards and surveillance cameras to watch over the buried Ark's location day and night.

But if the buried Ark's location is found out by some ultra-Orthodox Jews, they could round up tens of thousands of their fellows, armed with machine guns, and they could suddenly swarm the location, overwhelm any armed guards there, and hold off any subsequently-arrived IDF troops long enough to get the Ark out of the ground. Once it is out and the IDF troops actually see it, it is unlikely that they are going to try to stop the ultra-Orthodox Jews from parading it to the Temple Mount, they will be in such awe.

Also, once the ultra-Orthodox Jews make it to the Temple Mount and begin completely destroying the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, it is unlikely that the IDF troops are going to open fire, whether with lead bullets or rubber bullets, on their fellow Jews, slaughtering or injuring hundreds or thousands of them. Also, increasing numbers of IDF officers are very religious, so that they could order their troops to stand down. And if some non-religious officers convince their troops to employ tear gas in an attempt to simply disperse the ultra-Orthodox Jews without harming them, this could be thwarted by the ultra-Orthodox Jews having brought along gas masks (which, ironically, could have been issued to them by the Israeli government itself, back when there was a fear that Saddam Hussein would send Scud missiles into Israel with chemical-weapons payloads).

So the Israeli government could be unable to prevent the complete destruction of the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque at the hands of the ultra-Orthodox Jews. And so the Israeli government could be unable to prevent the subsequent, retaliatory destruction of the state of Israel at the hands of enraged Muslim armies and militias.

*******

dfw69 said in post 148:

This seems to suggest that the false prophet is a false Elijah calling down fire

That's right.

And just as the Antichrist could make a worldwide television and internet spectacle out of his fulfilling of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Daniel 11:36, so his False Prophet could make a worldwide television and internet spectacle out of his fulfilling of Revelation 13:13, when he will miraculously call fire down from heaven in the sight of everyone. He could do this as a Luciferian inversion of 1 Kings 18:19-40. For example, he could first gather together all of the most prominent leaders of the Christian community worldwide to the Champ de Mars (Mars being the same as Marduk the dragon, the chief god of ancient Babylon), which is the large open space in front of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. And he could then tell them during a ceremony televised and webcasted live worldwide to pray to YHWH God to send fire down and destroy the Tower.

And when the Christian leaders pray and YHWH doesn't do anything (by his own choice), the False Prophet could then pray to Lucifer (the dragon, Satan: Revelation 12:9, Revelation 13:4) to send fire down and destroy the Tower. And Lucifer could do so (allowed to do so by YHWH), so that 1 Kings 18:38-40 will be turned on its head, so that news reporters could write (in their words) "Then the fire of Lucifer fell, and consumed the Eiffel Tower. And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces. And they said, Lucifer is God, Lucifer is God. And the True Prophet said to them: 'Take these men of YHWH! Let not one of them escape!' And they took them. And the True Prophet brought them down to the river Seine, and slew them there" (as a Luciferian inversion of 1 Kings 18:38-40).

But would YHWH really let something like this happen? Would he let Christians pray to him to send fire down from heaven, but refuse to do so, while allowing Lucifer to send fire down at the beck of the False Prophet? Yes, YHWH could let this happen, as a test to Christians, to see if they love signs and wonders more than YHWH (cf. Deuteronomy 13:1-3). Believers must always remember that not all signs and wonders are from the true God, that Lucifer/Satan can also give people the power to perform them (e.g. 2 Thessalonians 2:9), in order to deceive people (Matthew 24:24-25, Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20).

The way not to be deceived is to continue to believe that everything the Bible teaches is from God (John 8:31b, Matthew 4:4; 2 Timothy 3:15 to 4:4), no matter how amazing the miracles are of someone who teaches something which contradicts the Bible (Matthew 24:24; 1 Timothy 4:1). And the way to continue to believe that everything the Bible teaches is from God is not to continue in any unrepentant sin. For otherwise our conscience could become seared as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2), to where we could no longer endure the sound doctrine of the Bible, but after our own lusts heap to ourselves teachers who teach us fables which support us in our lusts (2 Timothy 4:3-4), to where we could even become willing to depart from the faith itself, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (1 Timothy 4:1).

*******

dfw69 said in post 151:

Elijah will be resurrected as with Enoch after 3 days and be seen raptured up towards heaven just before Jesus returns the true messiah Ben David ..

Instead of being Elijah and Enoch, in the never-fulfilled Revelation 11:3-12 the 2 witnesses could be literally Moses and Elijah. For the 2 men seen "standing before the God of the earth" (Revelation 11:4) at the transfiguration were Moses and Elijah (Matthew 17:3). And in Revelation 11:4, the 2 "olive trees" refer back to the 2 men who were already standing by the Lord by the time of the prophet Zechariah (Zechariah 4:11,14), which was subsequent to the times of Moses and Elijah.

Moses and Elijah could come down from heaven in their mortal bodies at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, just as they came down at the transfiguration. Also, the plagues which the 2 witnesses will cause (Revelation 11:6,5) will match plagues which Moses and Elijah caused in Old Testament times (James 5:17, Exodus 7:20; 2 Kings 1:10-14).

Elijah never died, but was taken physically into heaven (2 Kings 2:11b). And Michael the archangel retrieved Moses' dead body from Satan (Jude 1:9). Michael could have then taken Moses' recently-dead body into heaven, where it could have been resuscitated by God back to mortal life, like how, for example, Lazarus' recently-dead body was resuscitated by God back to mortal life (John 12:1). This would explain how both Moses and Elijah could be alive at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).

The 2 witnesses will prophesy and bring plagues on the world during the future, literal 3.5 years (Revelation 11:2b,3,6) of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 12:6,14), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. That is why the Antichrist's reign will legally end (Revelation 11:15) right after the time of the 2 witnesses on the earth will end (Revelation 11:12-15). The plagues which they will bring (Revelation 11:6) will be part of the tribulation's 2nd woe/6th trumpet (Revelation 11:14, Revelation 9:12-13). They will be taken up to heaven before the tribulation's 7th trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:12,15).

They may not be witnesses in the sense of evangelizing the world (Acts 1:8). For the original Greek word (martus: G3144) translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can also refer to those who witness against people and bring punishment against them (Acts 7:58). The reason that there will be 2 witnesses (Revelation 11:3) who will bring plagues to torment the unrepentant world (Revelation 11:6,10b) would be because 2 witnesses are required to bring judgment against people (1 Timothy 5:19). At the same time, the 2 "witnesses" could be called that because both of them will be martyred (Revelation 11:7-9). For the same original Greek word translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can refer to "martyrs" (Revelation 17:6).

 

[dfw69]

Actually, the current, Zionist government of Israel is opposed to any idea of a future "Messiah", who will, for example, rebuild the Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

That's good ..they are keeping the peace between Jews and Muslims ...and if the government are God instrument in preventing the false messianic age from happening that is good too..because once that is set in motion there is no turning back ...and judgement must fall in the form of God wrath for establishing a false messiah and false messianic age ...

That is, one reason that the 3rd Jewish temple of Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 hasn't been built yet is the Israeli government has been very careful to protect the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque ever since Israel took military control of the Temple Mount back in 1967. For the Israeli government knows that if the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel were to destroy these buildings (the 3rd-holiest sites in Islam) in order to clear the Temple Mount for a 3rd Jewish temple, this could mean the end of the current state of Israel. For enraged Muslim armies and militias could attack Israel en masse in an all-out jihad and defeat it completely.

So all is needed for the establishment of the messianic age would be for the Orthodox Jews to rise up in rebellion against the government and destroy the mosque enraging the Arabs causing the Arab nations to surround Jerusalem and an Orthodox Jew getting the victory and being crown as the messiah???That could happen at any moment .

..I do not wish these things to happen ... The false Messianic age spells doom for Christianity and all religions ....it will be an era of darkness where evil is committed in the name of the law and in the name of righteousness ...people will be lovers of themselves more that lovers of the gospel and begin to hate one another because the iniquity committed in the name of the law will abound ...persecutions and judgements will arise ..the love for one another expressed in the gospel will grow cold... Forgiving sinners will cease ...mercy will cease ...judgements will abound ...it seems that is our future if the false messianic age begins and endures for a season

While the ultra-Orthodox Jews are no doubt aware of this danger, they believe that the 3rd temple must nonetheless be built exactly where the prior temples stood: right over the Rock of Sacrifice (the Rock of the Dome of the Rock) on which Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac. And the ultra-Orthodox Jews could be brought to the point where they will even desire to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel, believing that only in its demise will God make it possible for them to establish a new, perfectly ultra-Orthodox, theocratic city-state of (what they could call ) "the True Israel". They could establish this within the walled Old City of Jerusalem (which contains the Temple Mount), and build on the Temple Mount a 3rd Jewish temple before which they can restart the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, and perfectly keep every jot and tittle of the Mosaic law, and banish every non-kosher person and thing from ever entering within Old Jerusalem's "Holy walls".

(This could point to another reason that the current, secular government of Israel doesn't want to let the ultra-Orthodox Jews build a 3rd temple: out of fear that the secular authority of the Israeli government could subsequently get undermined. For once temple practices resumed and a priesthood came into power, a creep toward theocracy could ensue in Israel, where priests and rabbis would become powerful enough to replace the secular leaders in Israel. So the secular leaders could want to simply place a hold on any drift in that direction by forbidding the building of a 3rd temple.)

Something which could help to bring the ultra-Orthodox Jews to the point of desiring to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel would be them getting squeezed out of their settlements in "Samaria and Judaea" (also called the "West Bank"), and in eastern Jerusalem, as part of a peace deal handing these areas over to a Palestinian state. (Any such handover won't happen without a removal of Netanyahu from power, possibly by assassination.) For the ultra-Orthodox Jews (rightly) see Samaria, Judaea, and Jerusalem as the historically most important and holy parts of the land promised by God to Israel since the time of Abraham (Exodus 32:13). So when they start to get squeezed out of these areas, in a rage they could suddenly mass in their tens of thousands, armed with machine guns (which they are allowed to have for self-defense against the Palestinians). And led by 3 huge bulldozers, they could march as a great army to the Old City of Jerusalem, and go up onto the Temple Mount and completely destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque.

(A fear of the ultra-Orthodox Jews resorting to violence could be one of the reasons that the Israeli government refuses to hinder Jewish settlement activity in Samaria, Judaea, and eastern Jerusalem. It could also be one of the reasons that the U.S. government has been convinced by Israel to back off from requiring any such hindrance. But if down the road, pressure from the Arab masses for a Palestinian state becomes so extreme that it begins to threaten to overthrow U.S. hegemony over the Arab world, the U.S. could decide to force Israel to surrender all of the Jewish settlements to a Palestinian state.)

Besides getting squeezed out of their settlements at some point in our future, something else which could help to tip the scales toward the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent would be the rising up of a miracle-working, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (cf. Matthew 24:24), who could tell the ultra-Orthodox Jews something like:

"God says that now is the time for us to take back religious control of the Holy Temple Mount, and rid it of all the detestable shrines which the Muslims have placed upon it. We are to sanctify it in the name of our God, so that we might rebuild His Holy Temple there. Listen, my brethren, fear not the Muslims' reaction when we retake religious control of the Holy Temple Mount. For God Himself is with us. He will protect us perfectly. Have I not shown you His mighty Power working through Me? Fear not any men, but fear only our Mighty God, who now commands us to rebuild His Holy Temple at the place which He determined from the time of our Father Abraham. Our God gave us back the Holy Temple Mount way back in 1967 C.E. But what have we done with it over all the time since then? Nothing! How can this be? How can we have allowed some merely-secular, so-called 'Israeli' government invented by sinful men to keep us, God's holy people, from even setting foot back on the Temple Mount, and to let it remain under the religious control of the vile Muslims? Let us all rise up now, my brethren! Let us all rise up, in the name of our God, and let us do mighty exploits to the Glory of His Holy Name!"

With such rhetoric, accompanied by his working of amazing miracles (cf. Matthew 24:24), a false ultra-Orthodox Jewish "Messiah" in Israel could whip up the ultra-Orthodox Jews there into a religious frenzy, so that they will all with great zeal, and without any fear, march in their tens of thousands upon the Temple Mount, and take total control of it, and then rejoice there and dance and sing holy hymns to God "for His great and mighty Victory".

Something else which could help tip the scales toward the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is the occurrence of a series of great earthquakes in Jerusalem which will severely damage the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa Mosque, to the point where they will stop being used. For the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see this as (in their words) "Clearly a portent from God that he will no longer allow Muslims to trample His Holy Mountain. We must now reassert total Jewish control over it and rebuild His Holy Temple there".

Something else which could help tip the scales toward the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is their finding out the location of the Ark of the Covenant, which could be buried under an ancient ruined fort in the desert east of Jerusalem. The Copper Scroll could contain the clues as to where the Ark is buried in the fort (e.g. "under the third step"). The Ark could have been located there already with ground-penetrating radar by some non-religious treasure hunters, but the Israeli government could be holding up a digging permit to retrieve the Ark, because the government is afraid that the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see a retrieval of the Ark as (in their words) "An unmistakable sign from God that now is the time for us to rebuild His Holy Temple". So the Israeli government has a motive to keep the location of the buried Ark top secret.

Fearing that some ultra-Orthodox Jews could nonetheless somehow discover the top secret location of the buried Ark, and go there in the dead of night and dig it up without a permit from, or any notification to, the Israeli government, the government could have placed armed guards and surveillance cameras to watch over the buried Ark's location day and night.

But if the buried Ark's location is found out by some ultra-Orthodox Jews, they could round up tens of thousands of their fellows, armed with machine guns, and they could suddenly swarm the location, overwhelm any armed guards there, and hold off any subsequently-arrived IDF troops long enough to get the Ark out of the ground. Once it is out and the IDF troops actually see it, it is unlikely that they are going to try to stop the ultra-Orthodox Jews from parading it to the Temple Mount, they will be in such awe.

Also, once the ultra-Orthodox Jews make it to the Temple Mount and begin completely destroying the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, it is unlikely that the IDF troops are going to open fire, whether with lead bullets or rubber bullets, on their fellow Jews, slaughtering or injuring hundreds or thousands of them. Also, increasing numbers of IDF officers are very religious, so that they could order their troops to stand down. And if some non-religious officers convince their troops to employ tear gas in an attempt to simply disperse the ultra-Orthodox Jews without harming them, this could be thwarted by the ultra-Orthodox Jews having brought along gas masks (which, ironically, could have been issued to them by the Israeli government itself, back when there was a fear that Saddam Hussein would send Scud missiles into Israel with chemical-weapons payloads).

So the Israeli government could be unable to prevent the complete destruction of the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque at the hands of the ultra-Orthodox Jews. And so the Israeli government could be unable to prevent the subsequent, retaliatory destruction of the state of Israel at the hands of enraged Muslim armies and militias.

*******



That's right.

And just as the Antichrist could make a worldwide television and internet spectacle out of his fulfilling of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Daniel 11:36, so his False Prophet could make a worldwide television and internet spectacle out of his fulfilling of Revelation 13:13, when he will miraculously call fire down from heaven in the sight of everyone. He could do this as a Luciferian inversion of 1 Kings 18:19-40. For example, he could first gather together all of the most prominent leaders of the Christian community worldwide to the Champ de Mars (Mars being the same as Marduk the dragon, the chief god of ancient Babylon), which is the large open space in front of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. And he could then tell them during a ceremony televised and webcasted live worldwide to pray to YHWH God to send fire down and destroy the Tower.

And when the Christian leaders pray and YHWH doesn't do anything (by his own choice), the False Prophet could then pray to Lucifer (the dragon, Satan: Revelation 12:9, Revelation 13:4) to send fire down and destroy the Tower. And Lucifer could do so (allowed to do so by YHWH), so that 1 Kings 18:38-40 will be turned on its head, so that news reporters could write (in their words) "Then the fire of Lucifer fell, and consumed the Eiffel Tower. And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces. And they said, Lucifer is God, Lucifer is God. And the True Prophet said to them: 'Take these men of YHWH! Let not one of them escape!' And they took them. And the True Prophet brought them down to the river Seine, and slew them there" (as a Luciferian inversion of 1 Kings 18:38-40).

But would YHWH really let something like this happen? Would he let Christians pray to him to send fire down from heaven, but refuse to do so, while allowing Lucifer to send fire down at the beck of the False Prophet? Yes, YHWH could let this happen, as a test to Christians, to see if they love signs and wonders more than YHWH (cf. Deuteronomy 13:1-3). Believers must always remember that not all signs and wonders are from the true God, that Lucifer/Satan can also give people the power to perform them (e.g. 2 Thessalonians 2:9), in order to deceive people (Matthew 24:24-25, Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20).

The way not to be deceived is to continue to believe that everything the Bible teaches is from God (John 8:31b, Matthew 4:4; 2 Timothy 3:15 to 4:4), no matter how amazing the miracles are of someone who teaches something which contradicts the Bible (Matthew 24:24; 1 Timothy 4:1). And the way to continue to believe that everything the Bible teaches is from God is not to continue in any unrepentant sin. For otherwise our conscience could become seared as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2), to where we could no longer endure the sound doctrine of the Bible, but after our own lusts heap to ourselves teachers who teach us fables which support us in our lusts (2 Timothy 4:3-4), to where we could even become willing to depart from the faith itself, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (1 Timothy 4:1).

*******



Instead of being Elijah and Enoch, in the never-fulfilled Revelation 11:3-12 the 2 witnesses could be literally Moses and Elijah. For the 2 men seen "standing before the God of the earth" (Revelation 11:4) at the transfiguration were Moses and Elijah (Matthew 17:3). And in Revelation 11:4, the 2 "olive trees" refer back to the 2 men who were already standing by the Lord by the time of the prophet Zechariah (Zechariah 4:11,14), which was subsequent to the times of Moses and Elijah.

Moses and Elijah could come down from heaven in their mortal bodies at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, just as they came down at the transfiguration. Also, the plagues which the 2 witnesses will cause (Revelation 11:6,5) will match plagues which Moses and Elijah caused in Old Testament times (James 5:17, Exodus 7:20; 2 Kings 1:10-14).

Elijah never died, but was taken physically into heaven (2 Kings 2:11b). And Michael the archangel retrieved Moses' dead body from Satan (Jude 1:9). Michael could have then taken Moses' recently-dead body into heaven, where it could have been resuscitated by God back to mortal life, like how, for example, Lazarus' recently-dead body was resuscitated by God back to mortal life (John 12:1). This would explain how both Moses and Elijah could be alive at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:3).

The 2 witnesses will prophesy and bring plagues on the world during the future, literal 3.5 years (Revelation 11:2b,3,6) of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 12:6,14), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. That is why the Antichrist's reign will legally end (Revelation 11:15) right after the time of the 2 witnesses on the earth will end (Revelation 11:12-15). The plagues which they will bring (Revelation 11:6) will be part of the tribulation's 2nd woe/6th trumpet (Revelation 11:14, Revelation 9:12-13). They will be taken up to heaven before the tribulation's 7th trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:12,15).

They may not be witnesses in the sense of evangelizing the world (Acts 1:8). For the original Greek word (martus: G3144) translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can also refer to those who witness against people and bring punishment against them (Acts 7:58). The reason that there will be 2 witnesses (Revelation 11:3) who will bring plagues to torment the unrepentant world (Revelation 11:6,10b) would be because 2 witnesses are required to bring judgment against people (1 Timothy 5:19). At the same time, the 2 "witnesses" could be called that because both of them will be martyred (Revelation 11:7-9). For the same original Greek word translated as "witnesses" (Revelation 11:3) can refer to "martyrs" (Revelation 17:6).

 

[Bible2+]

dfw69 said in post 155:

So all is needed for the establishment of the messianic age would be for the Orthodox Jews to rise up in rebellion against the government and destroy the mosque enraging the Arabs causing the Arab nations to surround Jerusalem and an Orthodox Jew getting the victory and being crown as the messiah???

Actually, no. For there won't be a false Messianic "age", just a false Messiah who will rule in Jerusalem-only for a short time before being defeated (and then peace-treatied) by the Antichrist. The rest of Israel will have already been completely defeated and occupied by an Arab other than the Antichrist.

That is, the Antichrist may not appear on the world stage until after the horrible, future, tribulation-starting war of Revelation 6:4-8 and Daniel 11:15-17 has resulted in the total defeat and occupation of Israel, and Egypt, and the death of 1/4 of the world. It could be this war which will help open the way for the Antichrist to arise on the world stage as a great man of peace and antitypically fulfill the "vile" person of Daniel 11:21-45.

One way this war could happen is the U.S. could undertake a massive buildup of the Iraqi Army, initially to prevent the Islamic State militant group (also known as ISIS, or ISIL, or Daesh) from taking over Iraq, and Syria, and all the rest of the Middle East, and eventually so that the Iraqi Army can serve as a proxy army, for the U.S. and Israel, for an all-out ground invasion of Iran, in order to end Iran's nuclear weapons program and extremist regime. As part of the buildup of the Iraqi Army, the U.S. could reinstall much of the former Iraqi Baathist military hierarchy (i.e. that which existed under Baathist Saddam Hussein), to run the present Iraqi Army more efficiently and ruthlessly.

And if the current, Shiite-dominated government of Iraq balks at any return of a Baathist-dominated military (which cruelly suppressed the Iraqi Shiites under Saddam Hussein's rule), or balks at any invasion of fellow-Shiite Iran, this could lead the CIA, MI6, and the Mossad to bring about a Baathist coup d'etat in Iraq. For they could see a well-run, Baathist Iraqi Army and government as the only way to defeat Islamic State, and the only way to eventually invade and defeat Iran, which invasion the Iraqi Baathists could agree to perform. For they see meddling, non-Arab Iran as a great enemy of Arab autonomy.

Indeed, the current military brains of the Islamic State are former Iraqi Baathist generals who can't stand that the Iraqi government has come completely under the thumb of Iran. They see (Sunni Arab) Islamic State as the only current viable bulwark against the Iranians and the Shiite Arabs taking control of all of Iraq and Syria. These generals could "defect" from serving Islamic State to serving a non-sectarian Iraqi Army drawn mainly (not exclusively) from Sunni Arab and Kurdish militias in western and northern Iraq, which with secret Western assistance could completely overthrow the current Iraqi government, which is very weak and corrupt.

Once the Iraqi Baathists take back control of Iraq, in order to help get the Iraqi masses and the world behind the idea of a subsequent, all-out Iraqi invasion of Iran, "false flag" operations could be managed by the CIA, MI6, and the Mossad by which it will be made to seem that (non-Arab, Persian) Iran is attacking the Iraqi Sunni Arabs and their little children terroristically with "dirty bombs" made from Iranian-enriched uranium, so that the Iraqi Arab masses will become enraged and begin to call for all-out retaliation against (what they could call) "the vile Persians". And the world could see an Iraqi invasion of Iran as being completely justified by self-defense.

But then, right when Iraq is all ready to invade Iran, the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel (who by that time could be led by a great miracle-working false "Messiah": cf. Matthew 24:24) could completely destroy the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the 3rd-holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, in order to clear the site for the building of a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). This could so enrage Muslims worldwide, including the (Muslim) Iraqi Army, that the Iraqi Baathist Generals could see it as a perfect excuse to abandon the plan to invade huge Iran, and instead (pretending that they are doing so in the name of Islam) turn and send their vast army against the little territory of Israel, completely defeating and occupying it (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17, the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

But this wouldn't be the ultimate reason for the Baathist attack, which could continue on south to also defeat and occupy Egypt (Daniel 11:15). For Egypt is ruled by the U.S.-supported Egyptian Army, which the Baathists could see as being a puppet of the U.S., just as they could see Israel as being a colony of the U.S. Baathism's ultimate aim is to unite all Arab lands from Oman to Morocco into one massive, powerful United Arab States free of all foreign hegemony.

The all-out Iraqi attack on Israel could be joined by the entire (Baathist) Syrian Army (with all of its missiles, many still secretly tipped with nerve agents), as well as by all of Iran's long-range missiles and all of Hezbollah's and Hamas' missiles and guerrillas. Israel could find itself suddenly attacked from 3 directions at the same time, with tens of thousands of missiles raining down on its cities and military bases, and tens of thousands of Iraqi tanks (meant to defeat and occupy huge Iran) pouring across its borders. As Israel starts to see its little sliver of land completely overrun, and sees that its total defeat and occupation is imminent and assured, in retaliation it could drop nuclear bombs on Baghdad, Damascus (Isaiah 17:1), Tehran, and other major cities of Iraq, Syria, and Iran.

There could be so many nuclear explosions sending so much radioactive dust and ash so high into the atmosphere that it could be blown eastward and fall on hugely-populated South Asia, ruining so many crop fields and immune systems there with radiation that 1/4 of the world's population could end up dying from the war and its aftermath of famines and epidemics. This could fulfill the horrible war which will begin the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing 1/4 of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons. This war could be blamed not only on the religious fundamentalism of Islam and Judaism, but also on religious fundamentalism in general, and so could lead to a worldwide crusade against all forms of religious fundamentalism, including Christian fundamentalism, i.e. the (correct) idea that the Bible is wholly true (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4) and that all other religions are cursed (Galatians 1:8-9, John 14:6, John 3:36, Acts 4:12).

-

After an Iraqi Baathist General who could lead the defeat and occupation of Israel and Egypt mysteriously disappears from the scene (Daniel 11:19), the Antichrist, who could be an Arab, could arise peacefully out of Lebanon (from the modern city of Tyre: Ezekiel 28:2; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and he could take up the mantle of Baathism and vow to (in his words) "complete the great work of Arab liberation and unification". The first thing that the Antichrist could do once he is given control (Daniel 11:21) of a Baathist federation of Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and a "United Palestine" (i.e. a defeated and occupied Israel), is to perform a small and localized attack against an army of ultra-Orthodox Jews holed up in the walled Old City of Jerusalem and led by an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22).

These ultra-Orthodox Jews could have managed to hold off the first Baathist attack even as it overran the rest of Israel, because the walled Old City of Jerusalem is considered holy to the Muslims, and so it is not to be bombarded or destroyed. The Antichrist could manage in some way to take the Old City without doing it much harm (such as by incapacitating its Jewish defenders with huge clouds of tear gas while tens of thousands of Arab soldiers wearing gas masks take control of the city by climbing over its walls on thousands of tall ladders).

But then, instead of imprisoning or executing all of the ultra-Orthodox Jews and their false Messiah, the Antichrist will do an amazing thing. He will "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false Messiah (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:23), permitting them to keep a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in the Old City of Jerusalem, and to keep control of the Old City, for at least 7 more years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. By this peace treaty, the Antichrist could present himself to the world as (in his words): "A reasonable man, a man of peace. I am no Hitler. I do not desire a second Holocaust. I am willing to give the religious Jews in the Old City seven years to show that they are willing to live peacefully with others, that they are different than the Zionist Jews who have just destroyed the world with their nuclear weapons".

And if the Antichrist gets flak from his fellow Baathists for letting the ultra-Orthodox Jews keep the Old City of Jerusalem, he could explain to them privately that (in his words) "It's all a temporary ruse, meant to keep world opinion off guard while we consolidate our position". The Baathists could consolidate their position by becoming so well dug-in, and so well-equipped and -advised militarily by the Russians (in the name of "Arab self-determination"), that a U.S. counter-attack to "restore" (i.e. to take back) Israel and Egypt could fail, and leave the Baathists in control, and in a position to extend their power over all the rest of the Arab nations. For if the Baathists defeat and occupy Israel, they will be hailed by the Arab masses across the Arab world as magnificent heroes, so that the Baathists could have no problem persuading the Arab masses to support them. And the Baathists could justify their defeat of the Egyptian military regime, and then their subsequent defeat of other regimes such as in Jordan, by railing against them as being (what they could call):

"These vile cronies of the Americans. These cronies pretended to be for the Arab people while in fact they were taking American bribes in the billions, completely selling out our Palestinian brothers to the endless cruelties of the Zionist occupation, and keeping you, the great majority of the Arab people, in poverty. These cronies, like the Zionists themselves, were the American bulwarks against our glorious Arab unification and return to world power. Join now with us, the Baathists, that we might bring about the long-awaited Arab Renaissance, the long-awaited Arab Resurrection [the Arab word 'Baath' can mean 'Renaissance' and 'Resurrection'], that we Arabs might all rise up together and unite, from Oman to Morocco, into one great United Arab States, one great Arab Empire, shaking off completely all the shackles of the West, placed upon us so long ago, and return to our former glory as we had during the Middle Ages, when we were free and far superior to the West".

The Baathists could also rail against the kings and sheikhs of the Arab Gulf States for (in their words) "Hoarding the huge oil wealth given by Allah to all of the Arabs, and keeping the Arab masses in poverty and subjugation to Western interests". The Baathists are socialist, and so could call for the distribution of the Arab oil wealth to the Arab masses (Daniel 11:24). In this way, and by their defeat and occupation of Israel, the Baathists could easily turn the masses to their side in every Arab nation.

During the first few years of the 7-year peace treaty referred to earlier, the Antichrist could employ Baathism as the means by which he will gradually and peacefully put together a United Arab States, or Arab Union, stretching from Oman to Morocco. Once he has accomplished this, he could then begin to downplay Baathism and start speaking of "World peace and the unity of mankind". He could convince an oil-thirsty European Union to let the oil-rich Arab Union join it, thereby forming a massive Mediterranean Union, which he could manage to peacefully gain control of and use as his base of power to eventually exert his hegemony over the entire earth (Revelation 13:7b).

Then, only some 3.5 years after making the 7-year peace treaty referred to earlier, the Antichrist will break it, attack the 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices offered in front of it, and sit (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). He will then rule the whole earth by the power of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon: Revelation 12:9) for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14), or 1,260 literal days (Revelation 12:6).

The return of Jesus Christ from heaven (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 19:11-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:16) may not occur immediately after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign, but could occur 75 days later, on the 1,335th day after the Antichrist and his followers set up the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 3rd Jewish temple (Daniel 12:11-12, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15). The 75 days could be taken up by the vials of God's wrath which will be poured out on the Antichrist's worshippers (Revelation 16).

When Jesus returns, he will completely defeat the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9), and he will have Satan bound in the bottomless pit (Revelation 20:1-3). Then the returned Jesus and the physically resurrected church (including those in the church who had been beheaded by the Antichrist) will reign physically on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:8-21).

 

[Douggg]

What is a Jew Doug ? Every man is born with foreskin ... It's when he enters into covenant with God and the law he becomes Jewish .. When he converts to Judaism ...he does not have to be from one of the tribes to be considered Jewish ... Only needs to convert ...though some would disagree but in the eyes of God if a stranger converted to Judaism he is as much Jewish as a son of the tribes of Israel ...in fact that will probably be his case against the sons of David or sanhedrine

A Jew is someone whose mother is a Jew. The Jews go that rule because in part it goes back to Nehemiah's time when he came back to Jerusalem and found that many of the caretaker Jews had taken foreign wives and had children by them.

He was greatly distraught over this because it harkened of what Solomon had done in taking foreign wives - who in turn introduced their idol gods to Israel and had those set up all over the country. Which led to both the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities.

Feeling badly about this, the caretaker Jews agreed to send their foreign wives and offspring by them away.

You can go to any Jewish site and ask them about who is a Jew? And they will all tell you a person whose mother is a Jew.

The tribe affiliation goes by which tribe the father belonged to.

In the case of Jew by choice - that is converts, they have no tribe affiliation, in Judaism. So the person who becomes the Antichrist cannot be convert.

Remember, we have to consider the Antichrist as someone to them (the Jews) would appear to be their Messiah. So the more we know about what the Jews think - the better we can understand the end times scenario.

 

[Douggg]

If he were a Jew, a descendant of David, and a nation state Israeli, and this individual overthrew the Israeli government and other world governments, would this not qualify as Jesus??! Or is he performing an apostate act of civil war? The prime example of being the antichrist!

I'm probably overthinking this, but it gets confusing for me.

Okay time to add clarity to the discombobulation in yours and dfw's thinking on the Antichrist. Time to end the confusion... and this is easy to understand. So you will remember forever the three variances.

Time to hit the topic of (1) false (Jesus) Christs (the impersonators); (2) the Antichrist; (3) and failed Christs (in Judaism).

___________________________________________________________

The Antichrist cannot be a Jesus impersonator because the Antichrist has got to be against Jesus and instead of Jesus as the king of Israel. The Antichrist will deny any sort of validity of Jesus being the Christ.

But... aren't there, and will be, Jesus impersonators? Yes, both dfw and tranquil are right in their thinking on this. The impersonators are false (Jesus) Christs that Jesus warned about in Matthew 24. The thing to remember though is Jesus impersonators cannot be the Antichrist, nor either of the beast(s) of Revelation. More about false christs.....

false christs (which is what dfw and tranquil are actually talking about):

A false christ is someone who pretends to be the person - Jesus, returned. Which Jesus said there would be many false (Jesus) christs arise, claiming to be him.

And some will say he Jesus Christ is in the desert, but don't go there, for Jesus said his return would be as evident as lightning flashing across the sky.

An example of a false christ is Jose' Miranda, who claims to be Jesus, His Second Coming. There's another guy, John Miller, in Australia. And another guy, Vissarion, in Russia. Essentially a false christ is someone who claims to be Jesus returned.

the Antichrist:

The Antichrist has a completely different connotation. The Antichrist is not going to be claiming to be Jesus. Just the opposite. He will be against Jesus being the rightful King of Israel. And instead, he will think that he himself is.

The Antichrist by necessity will be a Jew and his religion Judaism for him to become King of Israel, Son of David. The Antichrist will be opposed to Christianity and Jesus. An example of someone fitting more the mold of the Antichrist would be the late Rabbi Schneerson, a Jewish Rabbi, who many Jews believed was the messiah.

A key thing to remember is that the Antichrist is going to cause the great falling away in belief that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah. That mystery of iniquity was already at work back in the days of the apostles.

failed christs (failed Messiah's):

This is more or less what the Jews think, if you get to talking to them.

In Judaism, there have been several individuals (I think the count is 18 or so) like simon Bar Kochba, who was a candidate to become the King of Israel but came up short. And the late Rabbi Schneerson. Judaism terms those persons as failed christs (failed "messiah's" actually, since they don't use the term christ). - if you talk to them, the Jews.

Judaism's list of failed messiahs are neither false christs the impersonators (someone claiming to be Jesus returned), nor the Antichrist.