Why does God allow us to suffer?

[SteveB28]

When we accept Gods mercy for ourselves, it makes us more merciful towards others as well. Its not just about me, but about others too.

And there we are.

As I've said many times, if the religious were content to just exercise their faith unto themselves, that would be quite agreeable.

But you lot don't stop there do you? You seek to trespass on the lives of others as well.

 

[Extraneous]

.

 

[Extraneous]

And there we are.

As I've said many times, if the religious were content to just exercise their faith unto themselves, that would be quite agreeable.

But you lot don't stop there do you? You seek to trespass on the lives of others as well.

I don't do that. I have been slowly moving away from that type of thing because the scriptures have actually lead me away from forcing the Gospel onto others. Im not an american anymore, i belong to Christ and His kingdom instead. I gave up politics and i dont try to love this world, or to live in america and the kingdom at the same time. We must choose one or the other. The bible makes a clear distinction between seeking the kingdom and seeking to rule a world. We are supposed to forsake our love for this world and seek only the kingdom.

The world belongs to the world, but we belong to God. In order to actually love each other as sisters and brothers in Christ, and to love our enemies as well, we must separate ourselves from this world which is holiness, and instead seek only the kingdom of Christ. Christ's kingdom is not an earthly nation at all, but is instead being separate from earthly nations. You can blame people for not following this teaching, but you cant blame the teaching itself. Its not the Gospels fault, or God fault, that people don't follow his teaching. Everything you are talking about has been both observed in scripture, and even prophesied as well.


Mathew 15:8 “‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’[c]

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

2 Timothy 3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.


2 Thessalonians 2:2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition

 

[joshua 1 9]

the Bible is as meaningful to the non-Christian as the Koran is to the Christian. ie, not even a tiny bit. your affection for Jesus does not determine this matter. it's frankly bizarre that you seem to think it does.

My point was that the prison system is filled with people that thought the law was meaningless. The Bible is law. Only lawless person can say the Bible is meaningless. Some complain that God is not Just. That of course is not true. God is absolute Justice and the perfection of Justice. When people reject God they often want to make it look like He is to blame and they are blameless. In the end they will find out that God is Blameless and they will find themselves convicted of lawlessness. We know that lawless people go to jail and sometimes prison. They say the worst prison here in American is in Phonex Az. When you leave prison there sheriff Joe Arpaio wants people to say that is the worst food they ever ate and the worst experience they ever had. He is hoping they will not want to go back to prison in his country. He wants his prisoners to go out and tell people to not break the law in Joe Arpaio's country. Do not be lawless in his jurisdiction. That is why I say do not break the law of God. Even if you do not think that God is fair or just, it still is not a wise thing to do to be a lawless person.

Now you tell me, what is the difference between man's justice and God's Divine, Holy Justice? Are you willing to be judged by man and man's judgement but not God's Holy and Divine Judgement?

 

[joshua 1 9]

I don't do that. I have been slowly moving away from that type of thing because the scriptures have actually lead me away from forcing the Gospel onto others. Im not an american anymore, i belong to Christ and His kingdom instead. I gave up politics and i dont try to love this world, or to live in america and the kingdom at the same time. We must choose one or the other. The bible makes a clear distinction between seeking the kingdom and seeking to rule a world. We are supposed to forsake our love for this world and seek only the kingdom.

The world belongs to the world, but we belong to God. In order to actually love each other as sisters and brothers in Christ, and to love our enemies as well, we must separate ourselves from this world which is holiness, and instead seek only the kingdom of Christ. Christ's kingdom is not an earthly nation at all, but is instead being separate from earthly nations. You can blame people for not following this teaching, but you cant blame the teaching itself. Its not the Gospels fault, or God fault, that people don't follow his teaching. Everything you are talking about has been both observed in scripture, and even prophesied as well.


Mathew 15:8 “‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’[c]

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

2 Timothy 3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.


2 Thessalonians 2:2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition

This is what the Bible means when we are told: "they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb".

 

[SkyWriting]

for you. there are other gods for other people. but of course you're entitled to and welcome to hold the opinion that your god is special and real, while all others aren't.

I never said other Gods are not special or real.
What I said was, there is only one.
Despite the fact that people think otherwise.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Now you tell me, what is the difference between man's justice and God's Divine, Holy Justice?

The difference is that man's "justice" is demonstrably real.

 

[Locutus]

I never said other Gods are not special or real.
What I said was, there is only one.
Despite the fact that people think otherwise.

Yes, you believe your god is the only real god. I understand that. Many people feel that about their preferred god.

Take a hundred kids living in 100 different cities, and each one might believe his teddy bear is the only true teddy bear. It's the only one living at his house after all. Besides, it's nicer than all those other teddies, and has special features all those other teddies don't have - like that cute little turned over ear, and the slightly wonky eyes.

 

[Locutus]

If being addicted to Jesus is my problem then there is no problem. He gives me hope where i had none, and he taught me about love, mercy, grace. The scriptures have enhanced my life personally and have made me a better person as well. Not that im perfect or better than anyone else, but now i try to love people instead of being selfish. The world is a better place because i learned from Christ, and im happier as well.

Better to be addicted to Jesus, than to drugs.

 

[Locutus]

I thought we already showed the difference between the Koran and the Gospel. They are different. Try to see the difference and maybe you will understand the difference between the two.

all religious books have differences, that wasn't my point. I was trying to show Joshua that his holy book is as meaningless to the non-believer as the hindu scriptures (or whatever) are to him. he would have us ignore the human face of Christianity and read the texts, but doesn't do the same himself for other faiths.

 

[Locutus]

How do I know that God is good? Let us consider for a moment the Universe and the mechanics of the earth. Consider how in our solar system, everything has a distinct pattern. Science would say that is gravity and they would be correct, but how was gravity created? Furthermore, on earth life exists because there is oxygen in the air, plenty of sunshine, food, and water. Such things do not come to be just out of chance. There had to be something or someone who set it all in motion. I believe that someone is God. Now since God created all that I have mentioned and we can agree that everything that is provided on the earth is good for us, since we would not exist without them, then I can believe that God is inheritantly good just by looking at all that He had created.

and there it is ... you don't KNOW, you simply believe.

meantime, please explain how eye burrowing worms which eat brains, ebola, and childhood cancers are good for us.

 

[Blondepudding]

You didn't find the answer in your own site article that you linked to your OP?

That's the million dollar question after the other million dollar ones that have apologist excuses surrounding them so that they make the irrational seem like a mystery.

For instance; If a god is omni benevolent, and which would be defined as including all those synonymous characteristics attaching to benevolence, and all things are predestined according to his will and for his glory, how is it then that he didn't forgive Adam and Eve their first error in Paradise?
Where the serpent was allowed to enter and tempt them hanging from the branches of a tree that same god installed into that garden and then set off-limits at risk of spiritual death?

Predestination key there.

Maybe the answer to your question is, suffering makes people seek relief and subsequently, more suffering causes more seekers to seek god.

It's like his adversary that he let to live and then put on earth to tempt the worlds fallen people.

Without an enemy arriving first the good guy isn't visible later.

This is one of the hardest questions I have to answer with people, they always have a hard time understanding HOW a loving God could command all those people in the old testament to be killed. They look at the world and they see a world in pain!

WHY does God allow suffering!?

Does God truly care for and have a plan for all who have ever lived and died? These are common questions. Discover the Bible’s clear answers on this important topic.

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/telecasts/why-does-god-allow-suffering#sthash.eDVOkq1H.dpuf

 

[Locutus]

As far as i know, the Gospel is the only holy Scripture (religious text) which teaches saving grace. This is the power that actually changes people for the better. It humbles them instead of promoting religious pride which only causes more hate rather than love. .

It may well be the only holy text which teaches saving grace. Other holy texts teach other unique things, both noble and less than noble. I often hear Christians put forward "but Jesus was the only one who said a, b, or c", as a reason for their belief. I find this a completely baffling thing, as it's entirely illogical and dishonest. This is patently NOT the reason for belief, since all faiths have unique qualities. I just assume they don't want to admit that it's just simple personal preference - though I'm not sure why doing so is a problem.

As regards Christianity humbling believers, well I'd have to beg to differ there. From where I sit, the atheist who accepts his/her own mortality, doesn't imagine they're too special to just die like a houseplant, and doesn't feel they ought to have the personal attention of the gods, is the humble individual. Those who believe they're far too special to die, and require not only a guarantee of immortality, but the personal attention of the creator of the universe ... well, that kinda looks alot like the opposite of humble.

I will say though, that you seem one of the more humble believers. I take my hat off to ya, again

 

[Locutus]

You seem to be observing the outside of these people but not the inside.

I don't have access to their insides, so can only go on what they identify themselves as. If you see people of another (Abrahamic) faith doing violence, do you assume they're not genuinely of that faith? Or do you take them at their word?

To explain more fully: Christianity, or indeed any faith alive today, is only as good as it's human face. The reason for this is because that's ALL THERE IS. There is nothing else of Christianity manifest here on earth, unless you count buildings. There is an old text full of claims made by men allegedly on behalf of an old god, but this isn't 'living' and can't show us what the fruits of its claims are. The only place we can see your god is in people. Further, 'Christian' is a self-identification. The god is not here to tell us who is and who isn't a Christian, and we're warned against making those judgments ourselves. More to the point, we're told we determine it for ourselves .. it doesn't require a formal acceptance by a hierarchy of priests or special rituals.

All this adds up to the reality that if someone deems themselves a Christian, then they're a Christian. Consider, some would say you're not a Christian, and still others would say those last aren't Christians. And so it goes. The only thing which matters is that you see yourself as a Christian. We, as atheists, always take you at your word.

 

[Locutus]

How do I know that God is good? Let us consider for a moment the Universe and the mechanics of the earth. Consider how in our solar system, everything has a distinct pattern. Science would say that is gravity and they would be correct, but how was gravity created? Furthermore, on earth life exists because there is oxygen in the air, plenty of sunshine, food, and water. Such things do not come to be just out of chance. There had to be something or someone who set it all in motion.

None of which explains how you know this god is good. I'm willing to wager that you were taught that he's good, and further, were taught that he's necessarily good - no matter what he does.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The difference is that man's "justice" is demonstrably real.

Have you ever read the laws in your state? Here in my state the law is in a constant state of change. They add to man's laws and they take away from it. God's law remains consistent and true from the beginning. You can not add to God's law nor can you take anything away from it. Jesus said if you want to be great in the Kingdom of Heaven you have to keep and teach all of the Law of God.

Matt 5 18 17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.…

 

[joshua 1 9]

None of which explains how you know this god is good.

First you have to accept that absolute good exists. My guess would be that you believe good is relative and not absolute. As your answer implies that good is subjective and not objective. If that is the case then my question is are you absolutely sure that the only absolute truth is that there is no absolute truth? My absolute truth is that God is good. He represents good and every law in the Universe and ever law in the Bible are good. Would you like to tear apart the moral fiber of the Universe and show us in some way how the natural laws of science are not good?

 

[joshua 1 9]

The difference is that man's "justice" is demonstrably real.

Man's justice is based on the authority that God has given them. "For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."

 

[SteveB28]

First you have to accept that absolute good exists. My guess would be that you believe good is relative and not absolute. As your answer implies that good is subjective and not objective. If that is the case then my question is are you absolutely sure that the only absolute truth is that there is no absolute truth? My absolute truth is that God is good. He represents good and every law in the Universe and ever law in the Bible are good. Would you like to tear apart the moral fiber of the Universe and show us in some way how the natural laws of science are not good?

Please explain how it is a "good" and "just" thing that a person who lives an impeccable life in service to others will be nonetheless sent to an eternity of torture because they failed to believe the 'right' thing!?

 

[Locutus]

First you have to accept that absolute good exists. My guess would be that you believe good is relative and not absolute. As your answer implies that good is subjective and not objective. If that is the case then my question is are you absolutely sure that the only absolute truth is that there is no absolute truth? My absolute truth is that God is good. He represents good and every law in the Universe and ever law in the Bible are good. Would you like to tear apart the moral fiber of the Universe and show us in some way how the natural laws of science are not good?

There may or may not be absolute truths, that is entirely beside the point. We make a determination on goodness as and when needed. How did you determine that your god is good?