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Here's my problem, I believe in evolution, and it brings up doubts especially in the OT...

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Hoghead1

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I find your position, Bob, contradictory. You have God saying in effect, "Love me or I'll beat the tar out of you." Tha6t is anything but a loving God, biblical or not. And dhow convenient it is that those you label as saved happen to think exactly the way you do. Your strategy here seems to be one of trying to win by attacking your opponents' character, casting dispersion on them as lost souls, etc. That is totally inappropriate in a serious theological discussion.
 
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Hoghead1

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No, Bob, it is right in line with what you posted. You depicted Darwin as an atheist. Darwin, according to the record, was never an atheist in any , way, shape, or form. In "Origin," he mentions God at least nine times. He appears convinced that God is necessary to start the evolutionary process.
 
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Loudmouth

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Darwin claimed that is faith in blind faith evolutionism eventually drove out every last vestige of his acceptance of the Word of God.

That's a lie. He never said any such thing.

Do you really think using "faith" as an insult helps your own argument out?
More of Othaniel Marsh-ism? "arranging" the fossils along with "stories easy enough to tell - but they are not science"??

What does that even mean?

We have the transitional fossils. You are looking right at them. Why would we need faith when we have facts?
 
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PsychoSarah

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Darwin claimed that is faith in blind faith evolutionism eventually drove out every last vestige of his acceptance of the Word of God. Dawkins, Provine, P.Z. Meyers all claimed the same thing.

I hate Dawkins, P. Z. Meyers is a complete tool and a wannabe Dawkins, and I don't even know who Provine is. Atheists are not obligated to defend those of us that lack tact, especially when we disagree with them. And disagreeing with them doesn't make us any less atheists than Your disagreement with Hindus makes you any less of a theist. Basically, you can bring up any atheist quote you want; it really won't do you much good, because there is a good chance that the atheists you are debating disagree with that person, don't care about them, or flat out hate them.

One thing is for certain - blind faith evolutionism is totally at odds with faith in the Bible as the Word of God.
In your opinion. I will agree that it clashes with a literal biblical interpretation, but for those that don't interpret the text literally, it doesn't come at odds with their faith.

There can be no logical and truthful marriage between the two religions regarding the doctrine on origins - as Darwin himself observed.
In your opinion. The majority of Christians are evolution supporters, so unless you want to commit the "no true Scottsman" fallacy, you have to acknowledge that plenty of people comfortably reconcile evolution and the bible in their minds, and retain their faith while being supporters of evolution.

As for Darwin, if I recall correctly, he died completely agnostic, without favoring agnostic atheism or agnostic theism (yeah, agnostic Christian is a thing, not a common one, but it does exist).

But those 3 are on video tape explaining just how their blind faith in evolutionism destroyed their faith in the Word of God - so also did Darwin document his own rejection of the Bible in favor of his faith in evolutionism.
Darwin had a crisis of faith, yes, when he made his observations, and realized that they did not fit with a literal biblical interpretation. Not everyone can reconcile the two ideas, however, the harder you demand people reject evolution in favor of a literal biblical interpretation, the more you are encouraging a mindset that can't reconcile the two, and that will result in more people losing faith over time than being more flexible about biblical interpretation. I am pretty sure that your god will not care if you think it literally made Adam out of dirt, or made people over time through guided evolution. You still believe Jesus Christ is your lord and savior, and ultimately, isn't that what matters the most?


On the contrary - I have "faith in Christ" - the evidence of things not seen.
Faith by definition means that you don't have enough evidence to fully justify supporting an idea, but you do anyways because you have conviction in being right. It is one of the justifications I hear given for why god doesn't make itself unambiguously present 24/7.

I don't have "faith that 2+2=4" -- that is science fact.
Nitpick: science doesn't deal with math, math has proofs. This is just plain fact.

You will never find atheists or Christians asking someone if they "believe in 2+2=4-ism" but they ask that about evolution all the time.
We are in the evolution vs creationism debate subforum, of course we are going to ask people that here, it is relevant to the discussion to know what position people take on the matter. If this was a math debate sub forum, you might see people questioning topics like that.

Blind faith evolutionism is a competing religion - and junk-science all at the same time.

in Christ,

Bob
It would be if we did have blind faith in it. Do you not realize that we are fully aware that evolution could be wrong? We just know it is currently the strongest theory in terms of evidence for explaining how species change and develop over time. Plenty of evolution supporters dedicate their lives to trying to disprove it, because science arguably progresses more in demonstrating what theories are wrong than it does in demonstrating which ones are more likely to be right. It would be amazing if evolution would be disproven. Some people might be butthurt about it, and that would be a rough change for biology majors such as myself, but the shear epicness of what that would mean, and what new possibilities could become the highlight of our understanding would be exciting.
 
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PsychoSarah

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It's true, Bob, that belief in Hell has been a major teaching in Christianity. But is it really true? The Bible also says that God is loving and forgiving; and when you are truly loving you do not seek to coerce others with threats of eternal punishments. Many have left the church, some to become atheists, because they were given a contradictory message: God is supposed to be loving and forgiving, yet may well send the vast majority of the human race to eternal torment.
While Hoghead interprets the bible to be portraying hell incorrectly, or that hell is a mistake, I ended up interpreting that the loving qualities attributed to the Christian god are more to please it in a text that is supposed to encourage worship than an accurate depiction of how loving this being is. I base that on its actions of endorsing genocide of multiple cities, flooding the Earth because people expressed their free will in a way it didn't like, and inability to forgive people without getting worship from them. To me, a truly loving being would not punish people for the petty reason of not believing that deity exists.

Thus, to me, in order for the god of the bible to count as benign by any standard of it, the majority of the Old Testament and much of the New Testament would have to be completely wrong, and belief couldn't legitimately be the deciding factor of the quality of the afterlife people experience. In its own words, "I am an angry god, and a jealous god".
 
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BobRyan

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Here's my problem, I believe in evolution, and it brings up doubts especially in the OT... were the OT writers simply writing what they "thought" and the way they "felt" about God, and not in an actual words God actually said..

Well, my problem is I believe the scientific evidence which casts doubt on some of the Bible writers, BUT, I have too much personal experiencial evidence of a God and other spirits existing on another side beside this one...

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...periencing-part-of-a-pm-conversation.7843548/

My personal experiencial evidence stands on it's very own as enough proof for me, but have I encountered the same God (YHWH) spoke about in the OT, some OT acts and verses by God cast a shadow of a doubt on him being a or the God of Love...

Anyone help?

God Bless!

Darwin claimed that his faith in blind faith evolutionism eventually drove out every last vestige of his acceptance of the Word of God. Dawkins, Provine, P.Z. Meyers all claimed the same thing.

One thing is for certain - blind faith evolutionism is totally at odds with faith in the Bible as the Word of God.

There can be no logical and truthful marriage between the two religions regarding the doctrine on origins - as Darwin himself observed.

The projection is strong with this one.

your efforts to "re-imagine history" for us -- noted.

But those 3 are on video tape explaining just how their blind faith in evolutionism destroyed their faith in the Word of God - so also did Darwin document his own rejection of the Bible in favor of his faith in evolutionism.

Don't you realize that every time you use "faith" as a term of derision, you only make yourself look bad?

On the contrary - I have "faith in Christ" - the evidence of things not seen.

I don't have "faith that 2+2=4" -- that is science fact. You will never find atheists or Christians asking someone if they "believe in 2+2=4-ism" but they ask that about evolution all the time.

Blind faith evolutionism is a competing religion - and junk-science all at the same time.

I hate Dawkins, P. Z. Meyers is a complete tool and a wannabe Dawkins, and I don't even know who Provine is. Atheists are not obligated to defend those of us that lack tact, especially when we disagree with them.

Well far be it from me to defend their tact or methods. My only reference for them was that they all claimed (like Darwin) to have been raised as Christians. And they all claim that once they chose belief in the Darwinian doctrine on origins - they could no longer accept the Bible. Certainly no form of Darwinism begins with 'for in SIX DAYS the LORD Made the heavens and the earth the seas and all that is in them and rested the seventh day" Ex 20:11. (an example of legal code).

One can hardly blame them for "noticing the obvious" point that those two ideas on the doctrine of origins are completely at odds with each other.

In your opinion. I will agree that it clashes with a literal biblical interpretation, but for those that don't interpret the text literally, it doesn't come at odds with their faith.

My reference to James Barr and the "professors of Hebrew and OT studies in all world class universities" -- is because that is a group of atheists and agnostics not at all biased in favor of the Bible - yet dedicated to the study of the "literature" and history of it. And they seem to "notice" - the "kind of literature that it is".

A christian T.E. on the other hand has a "conflict of interest" -- he needs to "Discover" that the text written for all the world like a historic account "is not what you see" -- rather it is "what darwinism needs it to be".

Rather eisegetical from the get-go.

By contrast - Bible-believing christians need to find that the text is not preaching Darwinism - since it was written long before that age - and the author was not expecting the newly freed slaves from Egypt to "read darwinism into the historic account as written". For most objective unbiased readers of the text (even atheists a all world class universities) this position will be seen as "stating the obvious".

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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While Hoghead interprets the bible to be portraying hell incorrectly, or that hell is a mistake, I ended up interpreting that the loving qualities attributed to the Christian god are more to please it in a text that is supposed to encourage worship than an accurate depiction of how loving this being is. I base that on its actions of endorsing genocide of multiple cities, flooding the Earth because people expressed their free will in a way it didn't like, and inability to forgive people without getting worship from them. To me, a truly loving being would not punish people for the petty reason of not believing that deity exists.

more attention to the details please.

in Genesis 6 you do NOT find a text saying "All the world was peaceful - except the majority did not believe that God exists. They were all peaceful - loving - atheists".

It may be 're-imagined' -- that this is what is written there. But that is not the history that is recorded there. Rather a very violent and corrupt state of society had been reached. The fact that only 8 of them bothered to "get out of the rain" indicates just how far they had drifted from the level of "Adam and Eve".

You might be well advised to at least "read" the other side - of the fence before passing judgment on it since it is a life-or-death decision. And of course failing to believe in atheism if the alternative is wrong, is a nothing-risked end result, by comparison. You can only be at massive risk - if the Christian world view is the right one and you are atheist. You can't be at risk at all if you are Christian but the atheist world view is right.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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PsychoSarah

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Well far be it from me to defend their tact or methods. My only reference for them was that they all claimed (like Darwin) to have been raised as Christians.
Darwin certainly was, he even went to higher education to be in the ministry. As for the others, it would not shock me if they were raised as Christian. Most atheists were, at some point in their life, religious. People like me that never were are uncommon, and I wasn't raised to be non religious either. Not intentionally, anyways.

And they all claim that once they chose belief in the Darwinian doctrine on origins - they could no longer accept the Bible.
That's entirely possible, although for many atheists, evolution isn't a contributor to their lack of faith. It certainly isn't for me. To be blunt, figuring out that Santa Claus and the like weren't real on my own as a very young child contributed more to that than evolution ever could hope to. Lesson for all; if you lie to your kids about some mystical beings, and they figure it out on their own, they aren't liable to trust your word for it on similar concepts. Rather than trying to keep the Christ in Christmas, you should probably consider trying to keep the Claus out of it.

Certainly no form of Darwinism begins with 'for in SIX DAYS the LORD Made the heavens and the earth the seas and all that is in them and rested the seventh day" Ex 20:11. (an example of legal code).
Aman777 begs to differ. He interprets the length of the 6 days in Genesis to not be a literal 24 hours, but billions of years. Not saying I agree with him, just that there are ways of interpreting "6 days" as enough time for evolution to occur.

One can hardly blame them for "noticing the obvious" point that those two ideas on the doctrine of origins are completely at odds with each other.
When interpreted literally, for the most part, yes. All the more reason to promote non literal biblical interpretations.



My reference to James Barr and the "professors of Hebrew and OT studies in all world class universities" -- is because that is a group of atheists and agnostics not at all biased in favor of the Bible - yet dedicated to the study of the "literature" and history of it. And they seem to "notice" - the "kind of literature that it is".

A christian T.E. on the other hand has a "conflict of interest" -- he needs to "Discover" that the text written for all the world like a historic account "is not what you see" -- rather it is "what darwinism needs it to be".

Rather eisegetical from the get-go.

in Christ,

Bob
Do you have a word of the day calendar? Eisegetical, while perfectly fitting based on its meaning, is not a common word by any means.

Also, all interpretations of the bible have the quality of "being subject to personal presuppositions and bias" to some extent, we are all flawed people here. I don't see how interpreting it non-literally makes that much of a difference, given how much disagreement exists over what the bible is trying to convey even amongst those that try to interpret it literally.
 
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Hoghead1

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True, PsychoSarah. I should have been clearer. The OT presents a cruel, unmerciful, unloving Good. No doubt of that. I hold this is not a valid revelation. However, if you go to the NT, to the teachings and life of Christ, God is presented as loving. There is a major contradiction in Scripture here.
 
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BobRyan

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So then - reading "the other side of the fence" --

Story of Redemption. (A summary "digest" version of the Great Controversy between Christ and Satan)
Chapter 2The Creation
This chapter elaborates on Genesis 1.
The Father and the Son engaged in the mighty, wondrous work they had contemplated—of creating the world. The earth came forth from the hand of the Creator exceedingly beautiful. There were mountains and hills and plains; and interspersed among them were rivers and bodies of water. The earth was not one extensive plain, but the monotony of the scenery was broken by hills and mountains, not high and ragged as they now are, but regular and beautiful in shape. The bare, high rocks were never seen upon them, but lay beneath the surface, answering as bones to the earth. The waters were regularly dispersed. The hills, mountains, and very beautiful plains were adorned with plants and flowers and tall, majestic trees of every description, which were many times larger and much more beautiful than trees now are. The air was pure and healthful, and the earth seemed like a noble palace. Angels beheld and rejoiced at the wonderful and beautiful works of God. {SR 20.1}

After the earth was created, and the beasts upon it, the Father and Son carried out their purpose, which was designed before the fall of Satan, to make man in their own image. They had wrought together in the creation of the earth and every living thing upon it. And now God said to His Son, “Let us make man in our image.” As Adam came forth from the hand of his Creator he was of noble height and of beautiful symmetry. He was more than twice as tall as men now living upon the earth, and was well proportioned. His features were perfect and beautiful. His complexion was neither white nor sallow, but ruddy, glowing with the rich tint of health. Eve was not quite as tall as Adam. Her head reached a little above his shoulders. She, too, was noble, perfect in symmetry, and very beautiful. {SR 20.2}

This sinless pair wore no artificial garments. They were clothed with a covering of light and glory, such as the angels wear. While they lived in obedience to God, this circle of light enshrouded them. Although everything God had made was in the perfection of beauty, and there seemed nothing wanting upon the earth which God had created to make Adam and Eve happy, yet He manifested His great love to them by planting a garden especially for them. A portion of their time was to be occupied in the happy employment of dressing the garden, and a portion in receiving the visits of angels, listening to their instruction, and in happy meditation. Their labor was not wearisome but pleasant and invigorating. This beautiful garden was to be their home. {SR 21.1}

In this garden the Lord placed trees of every variety for usefulness and beauty. There were trees laden with luxuriant fruit, of rich fragrance, beautiful to the eye, and pleasant to the taste, designed of God to be food for the holy pair. There were the lovely vines which grew upright, laden with their burden of fruit, unlike anything man has seen since the fall. The fruit was very large and of different colors; some nearly black, some purple, red, pink, and light green. This beautiful and luxuriant growth of fruit upon the branches of the vine was called grapes. They did not trail upon the ground, although not supported by trellises, but the weight of the fruit bowed them down. It was the happy labor of Adam and Eve to form beautiful bowers from the branches of the vine and train them, forming dwellings of nature’s beautiful, living trees and foliage, laden with fragrant fruit. {SR 21.2}

The earth was clothed with beautiful verdure, while myriads of fragrant flowers of every variety and hue sprang up in rich profusion around them. Everything was tastefully and gloriously arranged. In the midst of the garden stood the tree of life, the glory of which surpassed all other trees. Its fruit looked like apples of gold and silver, and was to perpetuate immortality. The leaves contained healing properties. {SR 22.1}

Adam and Eve in Eden
Very happy were the holy pair in Eden. Unlimited control was given them over every living thing. The lion and the lamb sported peacefully and harmlessly around them, or slumbered at their feet. Birds of every variety of color and plumage flitted among the trees and flowers and about Adam and Eve, while their mellow-toned music echoed among the trees in sweet accord to the praises of their Creator. {SR 22.2}

Adam and Eve were charmed with the beauties of their Eden home. They were delighted with the little songsters around them, wearing their bright yet graceful plumage, and warbling forth their happy, cheerful music. The holy pair united with them and raised their voices in harmonious songs of love, praise, and adoration to the Father and His dear Son for the tokens of love which surrounded them. They recognized the order and harmony of creation, which spoke of wisdom and knowledge that were infinite. Some new beauty and additional glory of their Eden home they were continually discovering, which filled their hearts with deeper love and brought from their lips expressions of gratitude and reverence to their Creator. {SR 22.3}
 
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BobRyan

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Story of Redemption. (A summary "digest" version of the Great Controversy between Christ and Satan)
Chapter 3—Consequences of Rebellion

In the midst of the garden, near the tree of life, stood the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This tree was especially designed of God to be the pledge of their obedience, faith, and love to Him. Of this tree the Lord commanded our first parents not to eat, neither to touch it, lest they die. He told them that they might freely eat of all the trees in the garden except one, but if they ate of that tree they should surely die. {SR 24.1}

When Adam and Eve were placed in the beautiful garden they had everything for their happiness which they could desire. But God chose, in His all-wise arrangements, to test their loyalty before they could be rendered eternally secure. They were to have His favor, and He was to converse with them and they with Him. Yet He did not place evil out of their reach. Satan was permitted to tempt them. If they endured the trial they were to be in perpetual favor with God and the heavenly angels. {SR 24.2}

Satan stood in amazement at his new condition. His happiness was gone. He looked upon the angels who, with him, were once so happy, but who had been expelled from heaven with him. Before their fall not a shade of discontent had marred their perfect bliss. Now all seemed changed. Countenances which had reflected the image of their Maker were gloomy and despairing. Strife, discord, and bitter recrimination were among them. Previous to their rebellion these things had been unknown in heaven. Satan now beheld the terrible results of his rebellion. He shuddered, and feared to face the future and to contemplate the end of these things. {SR 24.3}

The hour for joyful, happy songs of praise to God and His dear Son had come. Satan had led the heavenly choir. He had raised the first note; then all the angelic host had united with him, and glorious strains of music had resounded through heaven in honor of God and His dear Son. But now, instead of strains of sweetest music, discord and angry words fall upon the ear of the great rebel leader. Where is he? Is it not all a horrible dream? Is he shut out of heaven? Are the gates of heaven never more to open to admit him? The hour of worship draws nigh, when bright and holy angels bow before the Father. No more will he unite in heavenly song. No more will he bow in reverence and holy awe before the presence of the eternal God. {SR 25.1}

Could he be again as he was when he was pure, true, and loyal, gladly would he yield up the claims of his authority. But he was lost! beyond redemption, for his presumptuous rebellion! And this was not all; he had led others to rebellion and to the same lost condition with himself—angels, who had never thought to question the will of Heaven or refuse obedience to the law of God till he had put it into their minds, presenting before them that they might enjoy a greater good, a higher and more glorious liberty. This had been the sophistry whereby he had deceived them. A responsibility now rests upon him from which he would fain be released. {SR 25.2}

These spirits had become turbulent with disappointed hopes. Instead of greater good, they were experiencing the sad results of disobedience and disregard of law. Never more would these unhappy beings be swayed by the mild rule of Jesus Christ. Never more would their spirits be stirred by the deep, earnest love, peace, and joy which His presence had ever inspired in them, to be returned to Him in cheerful obedience and reverential honor. {SR 25.3}
 
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PsychoSarah

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You need to pay more attention to the details.

in Genesis 6 you do NOT find a text say "All the world was peaceful - except the majority did not believe that God exists. They were all peaceful - loving - atheists".
No, but Sweden, a country in which the majority of the population today consists of atheists, has very low crime and poverty rates, and one of the lowest rates of depression. Clearly, religion or lack thereof doesn't affect frequency of conflict or violence. Yes, it can be used to try and justify conflicts, as other atheists on here, including myself, often point out, however, people will always use what they have to justify their horrible actions and get others in on it.

It may be 're-imagined' -- that this is what is written there. But that is not the history that is recorded there. Rather a very violent and corrupt state of society had been reached. The fact that only 8 of them bothered to "get out of the rain" indicates just how far they had drifted from the level of "Adam and Eve".

Building the Ark took centuries, and god told Noah how to do it. Chances are, even if the other people knew what was coming, which they likely did not, they would not have had the knowledge to save themselves.

You might be well advised to at least "read" the other side - of the fence before passing judgment on it since it is a life-or-death decision. And of course failing to believe in atheism if the alternative is wrong, is a nothing-risked end result, by comparison. You can only be at massive risk - if the Christian world view is the right one and you are atheist. You can't be at risk at all if you are Christian but the atheist world view is right.

in Christ,

Bob
I have been a seeker for over 7 years now. I am not an atheist because I want to be one. I would much rather be wrong, and still end up in hell because I didn't believe, than face complete oblivion of nonexistence. However, the argument you bring up is called Pascal's wager, and it is a well known and flawed argument for belief. The problem with it is that it forces a false dichotomy: in order for its argument to be even worth acknowledging, the only two possibilities that could be potentially correct are atheism and Christianity. In reality, atheism has between a 20-40% chance of being correct, depending on who you ask and suspending the comment that trying to measure that with precision is futile, while the remaining probability is divided millions upon millions of times between not only every religion that has ever existed, but any possibility that could apply to deities that hasn't gained a following before. Ultimately, atheism in general is more likely to be accurate to reality than any specific religion, which will end up with significantly less than 1% chance of being right just because of the number of possibilities.

We better hope that if deities do exist, that they don't care about worship, because more likely than not, if atheism is wrong, then the "truth" is either described in a dead religion, or has never been presented before.
 
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BobRyan

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Story of Redemption. (A summary "digest" version of the Great Controversy between Christ and Satan)
Chapter 3—Consequences of Rebellion

...
The Plot Against the Human Family

His (Satan's) followers were seeking him, and he aroused himself and, assuming a look of defiance, informed them of his plans to wrest from God the noble Adam and his companion Eve. If he could in any way beguile them to disobedience, God would make some provision whereby they might be pardoned, and then himself and all the fallen angels would be in a fair way to share with them of God’s mercy. If this should fail, they could unite with Adam and Eve, for when once they should transgress the law of God they would be subjects of God’s wrath, like themselves. Their transgression would place them, also, in a state of rebellion, and they could unite with Adam and Eve, take possession of Eden, and hold it as their home. And if they could gain access to the tree of life in the midst of the garden, their strength would, they thought, be equal to that of the holy angels, and even God Himself could not expel them. {SR 27.3}

Satan held a consultation with his evil angels. They did not all readily unite to engage in this hazardous and terrible work. He told them that he would not entrust any one of them to accomplish this work, for he thought that he alone had wisdom sufficient to carry forward so important an enterprise. He wished them to consider the matter while he should leave them and seek retirement, to mature his plans. He sought to impress upon them that this was their last and only hope. If they failed here, all prospect of regaining and controlling heaven, or any part of God’s creation, was hopeless. {SR 28.1}

Satan went alone to mature plans that would most surely secure the fall of Adam and Eve. He had fears that his purposes might be defeated. And again, even if he should be successful in leading Adam and Eve to disobey the commandment of God, and thus become transgressors of His law, and no good come to himself, his own case would not be improved; his guilt would only be increased. {SR 28.2}

He shuddered at the thought of plunging the holy, happy pair into the misery and remorse he was himself enduring. He seemed in a state of indecision: at one time firm and determined, then hesitating and wavering. His angels were seeking him, their leader, to acquaint him with their decision. They would unite with Satan in his plans, and with him bear the responsibility and share the consequences. {SR 28.3}

Satan cast off his feelings of despair and weakness, and, as their leader, fortified himself to brave out the matter and do all in his power to defy the authority of God and His Son. He acquainted them with his plans. If he should come boldly upon Adam and Eve and make complaints of God’s own Son, they would not listen to him for a moment but would be prepared for such an attack. Should he seek to intimidate them because of his power, so recently an angel in high authority, he could accomplish nothing. He decided that cunning and deceit would do what might, or force, could not. {SR 29.1}

Adam and Eve Warned
God assembled the angelic host to take measures to avert the threatened evil. It was decided in heaven’s council for angels to visit Eden and warn Adam that he was in danger from the foe. Two angels sped on their way to visit our first parents. The holy pair received them with joyful innocence, expressing their grateful thanks to their Creator for thus surrounding them with such a profusion of His bounty. Everything lovely and attractive was theirs to enjoy, and everything seemed wisely adapted to their wants; and that which they prized above all other blessings, was the society of the Son of God and the heavenly angels, for they had much to relate to them at every visit, of their new discoveries of the beauties of nature in their lovely Eden home, and they had many questions to ask relative to many things which they could but indistinctly comprehend. {SR 29.2}

The angels graciously and lovingly gave them the information they desired. They also gave them the sad history of Satan’s rebellion and fall. They then distinctly informed them that the tree of knowledge was placed in the garden to be a pledge of their obedience and love to God; that the high and happy estate of the holy angels was to be retained upon condition of obedience; that they were similarly situated; that they could obey the law of God and be inexpressibly happy, or disobey and lose their high estate and be plunged into hopeless despair. {SR 29.3}

They told Adam and Eve that God would not compel them to obey—that He had not removed from them power to go contrary to His will; that they were moral agents, free to obey or disobey. There was but one prohibition that God had seen fit to lay upon them as yet. If they should transgress the will of God they would surely die. They told Adam and Eve that the most exalted angel, next in order to Christ, refused obedience to the law of God which He had ordained to govern heavenly beings; that this rebellion had caused war in heaven, which resulted in the rebellious being expelled therefrom, and every angel was driven out of heaven who had united with him in questioning the authority of the great Jehovah; and that this fallen foe was now an enemy to all that concerned the interest of God and His dear Son. {SR 30.1}

They told them that Satan purposed to do them harm, and it was necessary for them to be guarded, for they might come in contact with the fallen foe; but he could not harm them while they yielded obedience to God’s command, for, if necessary, every angel from heaven would come to their help rather than that he should in any way do them harm. But if they disobeyed the command of God, then Satan would have power to ever annoy, perplex, and trouble them. If they remained steadfast against the first insinuations of Satan, they were as secure as the heavenly angels. But if they yielded to the tempter, He who spared not the exalted angels would not spare them. They must suffer the penalty of their transgression, for the law of God was as sacred as Himself, and He required implicit obedience from all in heaven and on earth. {SR 30.2}

The angels cautioned Eve not to separate from her husband in her employment, for she might be brought in contact with this fallen foe. If separated from each other they would be in greater danger than if both were together. The angels charged them to closely follow the instructions God had given them in reference to the tree of knowledge, for in perfect obedience they were safe, and this fallen foe could then have no power to deceive them. God would not permit Satan to follow the holy pair with continual temptations. He could have access to them only at the tree of knowledge of good and evil. {SR 31.1}

Adam and Eve assured the angels that they should never transgress the express command of God, for it was their highest pleasure to do His will. The angels united with Adam and Eve in holy strains of harmonious music, and as their songs pealed forth from blissful Eden, Satan heard the sound of their strains of joyful adoration to the Father and Son. And as Satan heard it his envy, hatred, and malignity increased, and he expressed his anxiety to his followers to incite them (Adam and Eve) to disobedience and at once bring down the wrath of God upon them and change their songs of praise to hatred and curses to their Maker. {SR 31.2}
 
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Chapter 4—Temptation and Fall
This chapter details apply to Genesis 3.
Satan assumes the form of a serpent and enters Eden. The serpent was a beautiful creature with wings, and while flying through the air his appearance was bright, resembling burnished gold. He did not go upon the ground but went from place to place through the air and ate fruit like man. Satan entered into the serpent and took his position in the tree of knowledge and commenced leisurely eating of the fruit. {SR 32.1}

Eve, unconsciously at first, separated from her husband in her employment. When she became aware of the fact she felt that there might be danger, but again she thought herself secure, even if she did not remain close by the side of her husband. She had wisdom and strength to know if evil came, and to meet it. This the angels had cautioned her not to do. Eve found herself gazing with mingled curiosity and admiration upon the fruit of the forbidden tree. She saw it was very lovely, and was reasoning with herself why God had so decidedly prohibited their eating or touching it. Now was Satan’s opportunity. He addressed her as though he was able to divine her thought: “Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?” Thus, with soft and pleasant words, and with musical voice, he addressed the wondering Eve. She was startled to hear a serpent speak. He extolled her beauty and exceeding loveliness, which was not displeasing to Eve. But she was amazed, for she knew that to the serpent God had not given the power of speech. {SR 32.2}

Eve’s curiosity was aroused. Instead of fleeing from the spot, she listened to hear a serpent talk. It did not occur to her mind that it might be that fallen foe, using the serpent as a medium. It was Satan that spoke, not the serpent. Eve was beguiled, flattered, infatuated. Had she met a commanding personage, possessing a form like the angels and resembling them, she would have been upon her guard. But that strange voice should have driven her to her husband’s side to inquire of him why another should thus freely address her. But she entered into a controversy with the serpent. She answered his question, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden. But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.” The serpent answered, “Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.” {SR 33.1}

Satan would convey the idea that by eating of the forbidden tree they would receive a new and more noble kind of knowledge than they had hitherto attained. This has been his special work, with great success, ever since his fall—to lead men to pry into the secrets of the Almighty and not to be satisfied with what God has revealed, and not careful to obey that which He has commanded. He would lead them to disobey God’s commands, and then make them believe that they are entering a wonderful field of knowledge. This is purely supposition, and a miserable deception. They fail to understand what God has revealed, and disregard His explicit commandments and aspire after wisdom, independent of God, and seek to understand that which He has been pleased to withhold from mortals. They are elated with their ideas of progression and charmed with their own vain philosophy, but grope in midnight darkness relative to true knowledge. They are ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. {SR 33.2}

It was not the will of God that this sinless pair should have any knowledge of evil. He had freely given them the good but withheld the evil. Eve thought the words of the serpent wise, and she received the broad assertion, “Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil”—making God a liar. Satan boldly insinuated that God had deceived them to keep them from being exalted in knowledge equal with Himself. God said: If ye eat ye shall surely die. The serpent said, If ye eat, “ye shall not surely die.” {SR 34.1}

The tempter assured Eve that as soon as she ate of the fruit she would receive a new and superior knowledge that would make her equal with God. He called her attention to himself. He ate freely of the tree and found it not only perfectly harmless but delicious and exhilarating, and told her that it was because of its wonderful properties to impart wisdom and power that God had prohibited them from tasting or even touching it, for He knew its wonderful qualities. He stated that his eating of the fruit of the tree forbidden to them was the reason he had attained the power of speech. He intimated that God would not carry out His word. It was merely a threat to intimidate them and keep them from great good. He further told them that they could not die. Had they not eaten of the tree of life which perpetuates immortality? He said that God was deceiving them to keep them from a higher state of felicity and more exalted happiness. The tempter plucked the fruit and passed it to Eve. She took it in her hand. Now, said the tempter, you were prohibited from even touching it lest you die. He told her that she would realize no more sense of evil and death in eating than in touching or handling the fruit. Eve was emboldened because she felt not the immediate signs of God’s displeasure. She thought the words of the tempter all wise and correct. She ate, and was delighted with the fruit. It seemed delicious to her taste, and she imagined that she realized in herself the wonderful effects of the fruit. {SR 34.2}
 
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Eve Becomes a Tempter
She then plucked for herself of the fruit and ate, and imagined she felt the quickening power of a new and elevated existence as the result of the exhilarating influence of the forbidden fruit. She was in a strange and unnatural excitement as she sought her husband with her hands filled with the forbidden fruit. She related to him the wise discourse of the serpent and wished to conduct him at once to the tree of knowledge. She told him she had eaten of the fruit, and instead of her feeling any sense of death, she realized a pleasing, exhilarating influence. As soon as Eve had disobeyed she became a powerful medium through which to occasion the fall of her husband. {SR 35.1}

I saw a sadness come over the countenance of Adam. He appeared afraid and astonished. A struggle appeared to be going on in his mind. He told Eve he was quite certain that this was the foe that they had been warned against, and if so, that she must die. She assured him she felt no ill effects but rather a very pleasant influence, and entreated him to eat. {SR 35.2}
Adam quite well understood that his companion had transgressed the only prohibition laid upon them as a test of their fidelity and love. Eve reasoned that the serpent said they should not surely die, and his words must be true, for she felt no signs of God’s displeasure, but a pleasant influence, as she imagined the angels felt. {SR 36.1}

Adam regretted that Eve had left his side, but now the deed was done. He must be separated from her whose society he had loved so well. How could he have it thus? His love for Eve was strong. And in utter discouragement he resolved to share her fate. He reasoned that Eve was a part of himself, and if she must die, he would die with her, for he could not bear the thought of separation from her. He lacked faith in his merciful and benevolent Creator. He did not think that God, who had formed him out of the dust of the ground into a living, beautiful form, and had created Eve to be his companion, could supply her place. After all, might not the words of this wise serpent be correct? Eve was before him, just as lovely and beautiful, and apparently as innocent, as before this act of disobedience. She expressed greater, higher love for him than before her disobedience, as the effects of the fruit she had eaten. He saw in her no signs of death. She had told him of the happy influence of the fruit, of her ardent love for him, and he decided to brave the consequences. He seized the fruit and quickly ate it, and like Eve, felt not immediately its ill effects. {SR 36.2}

Eve had thought herself capable of deciding between right and wrong. The flattering hope of entering a higher state of knowledge had led her to think that the serpent was her especial friend, possessing a great interest in her welfare. Had she sought her husband, and they had related to their Maker the words of the serpent, they would have been delivered at once from his artful temptation. The Lord would not have them investigate the fruit of the tree of knowledge, for then they would be exposed to Satan masked. He knew that they would be perfectly safe if they touched not the fruit. {SR 36.3}

Man’s Freedom of Choice
God instructed our first parents in regard to the tree of knowledge, and they were fully informed relative to the fall of Satan, and the danger of listening to his suggestions. He did not deprive them of the power of eating the forbidden fruit. He left them as free moral agents to believe His word, obey His commandments, and live, or believe the tempter, disobey, and perish. They both ate, and the great wisdom they obtained was the knowledge of sin and a sense of guilt. The covering of light about them soon disappeared, and under a sense of guilt and loss of their divine covering, a shivering seized them, and they tried to cover their exposed forms. {SR 37.1}

Our first parents chose to believe the words, as they thought, of a serpent; yet he had given them no tokens of his love. He had done nothing for their happiness and benefit, while God had given them everything that was good for food and pleasant to the sight. Everywhere the eye might rest was abundance and beauty; yet Eve was deceived by the serpent, to think that there was something withheld which would make them wise, even as God. Instead of believing and confiding in God, she basely distrusted His goodness and cherished the words of Satan. {SR 37.2}

After Adam’s transgression he at first imagined that he felt the rising to a new and higher existence. But soon the thought of his transgression terrified him. The air, that had been of a mild and even temperature, seemed to chill them. The guilty pair had a sense of sin. They felt a dread of the future, a sense of want, a nakedness of soul. The sweet love and peace and happy contented bliss seemed removed from them, and in its place a want of something came over them that they had never experienced before. They then for the first time turned their attention to the external. They had not been clothed but were draped in light as were the heavenly angels. This light which had enshrouded them had departed. To relieve their sense of lack and nakedness which they realized, their attention was directed to seek a covering for their forms, for how could they meet the eye of God and angels unclothed? {SR 38.1}

Their crime is now before them in its true light. Their transgression of God’s express command assumes a clearer character. Adam censured Eve’s folly in leaving his side and being deceived by the serpent. They both flattered themselves that God, who had given them everything to make them happy, might yet excuse their disobedience because of His great love to them and that their punishment would not be so dreadful after all. {SR 38.2}

Satan exulted in his success. He had now tempted the woman to distrust God, to question His wisdom, and to seek to penetrate His all-wise plans. And through her he had also caused the overthrow of Adam, who, in consequence of his love for Eve, disobeyed the command of God and fell with her. {SR 38.3}

The news of man’s fall spread through heaven—every harp was hushed. The angels cast their crowns from their heads in sorrow. All heaven was in agitation. The angels were grieved at the base ingratitude of man in return for the rich bounties God had provided. A council was held to decide what must be done with the guilty pair. The angels feared that they would put forth the hand and eat of the tree of life, and thus perpetuate a life of sin. {SR 39.1}

The Lord visited Adam and Eve, and made known to them the consequence of their disobedience. As they heard God’s majestic approach they sought to hide themselves from His inspection, whom they delighted, while in their innocence and holiness, to meet. “And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? And he said, I heard Thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. And He said, Who told Thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?” This question was asked by the Lord, not because He needed information, but for the conviction of the guilty pair. How didst thou become ashamed and fearful? Adam acknowledged his transgression, not because he was penitent for his great disobedience, but to cast reflection upon God. “The woman whom Thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.” The woman was then addressed: “What is this that thou hast done?” Eve answered, “The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.” {SR 39.2}

from - http://text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Book&bookCode=SR&lang=en&pagenumber=32
 
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A View of the Future
To Adam were revealed future important events, from his expulsion from Eden to the Flood, and onward to the first advent of Christ upon the earth; His love for Adam and his posterity would lead the Son of God to condescend to take human nature, and thus elevate, through His own humiliation, all who would believe on Him. Such a sacrifice was of sufficient value to save the whole world; but only a few would avail themselves of the salvation brought to them through such a wonderful sacrifice. The many would not comply with the conditions required of them that they might be partakers of His great salvation. They would prefer sin and transgression of the law of God rather than repentance and obedience, relying by faith upon the merits of the sacrifice offered. This sacrifice was of such infinite value as to make a man who should avail himself of it more precious than fine gold, even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. {SR 48.2}

Adam was carried down through successive generations and saw the increase of crime, of guilt and defilement, because man would yield to his naturally strong inclinations to transgress the holy law of God. He was shown the curse of God resting more and more heavily upon the human race, upon the cattle, and upon the earth, because of man’s continued transgression. He was shown that iniquity and violence would steadily increase; yet amid all the tide of human misery and woe, there would ever be a few who would preserve the knowledge of God and would remain unsullied amid the prevailing moral degeneracy. Adam was made to comprehend what sin is—the transgression of the law. He was shown that moral, mental, and physical degeneracy would result to the race, from transgression, until the world would be filled with human misery of every type. {SR 49.1}

The days of man were shortened by his own course of sin in transgressing the righteous law of God. The race was finally so greatly depreciated that they appeared inferior and almost valueless. They were generally incompetent to appreciate the mystery of Calvary, the grand and elevated facts of the atonement, and the plan of salvation, because of the indulgence of the carnal mind. Yet, notwithstanding the weakness, and enfeebled mental, moral, and physical powers of the human race, Christ, true to the purpose for which He left heaven, continues His interest in the feeble, depreciated, degenerate specimens of humanity, and invites them to hide their weakness and great deficiencies in Him. If they will come unto Him, He will supply all their needs. {SR 49.2}
 
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BobRyan said:
You might be well advised to at least "read" the other side - of the fence before passing judgment on it since it is a life-or-death decision. And of course failing to believe in atheism if the alternative is wrong, is a nothing-risked end result, by comparison. You can only be at massive risk - if the Christian world view is the right one and you are atheist. You can't be at risk at all if you are Christian but the atheist world view is right.

I have been a seeker for over 7 years now. I am not an atheist because I want to be one. I would much rather be wrong, and still end up in hell because I didn't believe, than face complete oblivion of nonexistence.
However, the argument you bring up is called Pascal's wager

Regardless of the name given - it is irrefutable logic. There is in fact no risk to 'not being atheist" -- so since you can only be at risk in the alternate conditions - it is "logical" to at least 'read' about that alternative, and be well informed about it. This is irrefutable.

If you really are seeking - I have given you several avenues to "explore" -
Starting with one person's testimony who was not Christian at all Monday at 10:27 PM #1376

And I have given these - on this same thread.

ORIGINS
1. The Creation , Adam and Eve in Eden- 23 minutes ago #1404
2. Satan and his angel after their fall 20 minutes ago #1405
3. Demons plot the fall of man 19 minutes ago #1407
4. Temptation and fall 15 minutes ago #1408
5. Eve becomes Tempter 14 minutes ago #1409
6. Adam is shown Gospel future 7 minutes ago #1410


The problem with it is that it forces a false dichotomy: in order for its argument to be even worth acknowledging, the only two possibilities that could be potentially correct are atheism and Christianity. In reality, atheism has between a 20-40% chance of being correct, depending on who you ask

That is not at all correct. Atheism has zero% of being correct. Even atheists like Reese and Susskind know that "observations in nature" demand a "Designer" and you have to be willing to "imagine" an almost infinite number of entire universes when "doubling down on atheism" in a desperate attempt to "avoid the obvious". And THIS is from their own atheist POV it is not a Christian POV.

and suspending the comment that trying to measure that with precision is futile, while the remaining probability is divided millions upon millions of times between not only every religion that has ever existed

Which is another hugely flawed conclusion.

Every religion - including Islam - accomodates Christ as a divine or inspired being. In Islam - the virgin birth and the 2nd coming of Christ are BOTH affirmed.

Thus the only "RISK" for the Christian - is that atheism is true - which means he/she will be welcomed to "oblivion" the same exact way "PsychoSarah" is welcomed or that he will be welcomed to "Reincarnation" and the world of many pagan gods the same way all the others are.

NO risk.

Logic alone demands giving the Christian Gospel a good hard look!

(I stand corrected - there is ONE risk for the Christian option - and that is Satanism. If Satan worship is the real thing we are all supposed to be doing -- then Christ is the enemy and his followers are the enemy. Even so - I suggest you not go there.)
 
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Since you mentioned the flood --

Chapter 8—The Flood
This chapter pertains to the history in Genesis 6; 7; 8 and 9:8-17.
The descendants of Seth were called the sons of God; the descendants of Cain, the sons of men. As the sons of God mingled with the sons of men, they became corrupt and, by intermarriage with them, lost, through the influence of their wives, their peculiar, holy character, and united with the sons of Cain in their idolatry. Many cast aside the fear of God and trampled upon His commandments. But there were a few that did righteousness, who feared and honored their Creator. Noah and his family were among the righteous few. {SR 62.1}

The wickedness of man was so great, and increased to such a fearful extent, that God repented that He had made man upon the earth, for He saw that the wickedness of man was great, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. {SR 62.2}

More than one hundred years before the Flood the Lord sent an angel to faithful Noah to make known to him that He would no longer have mercy upon the corrupt race. But He would not have them ignorant of His design. He would instruct Noah and make him a faithful preacher to warn the world of its coming destruction, that the inhabitants of the earth might be left without excuse. Noah was to preach to the people, and also to prepare an ark as God should direct him for the saving of himself and family. He was not only to preach, but his example in building the ark was to convince all that he believed what he preached. {SR 62.3}

Noah and his family were not alone in fearing and obeying God. But Noah was the most pious and holy of any upon the earth, and was the one whose life God preserved to carry out His will in building the ark and warning the world of its coming doom. Methuselah, the grandfather of Noah, lived until the very year of the Flood; and there were others who believed the preaching of Noah, and aided him in building the ark, who died before the flood of waters came upon the earth. Noah, by his preaching and example in building the ark, condemned the world. {SR 63.1}

God gave all who chose an opportunity to repent and turn to Him. But they believed not the preaching of Noah. They mocked at his warnings and ridiculed the building of that immense vessel on dry land. Noah’s efforts to reform his fellow men did not succeed. But for more than one hundred years he persevered in his efforts to turn men to repentance and to God. Every blow struck upon the ark was preaching to the people. Noah directed, he preached, he worked, while the people looked on in amazement and regarded him as a fanatic. {SR 63.2}

Building the Ark
God gave Noah the exact dimensions of the ark and explicit directions in regard to the construction of it in every particular. In many respects it was not made like a vessel but prepared like a house, the foundation like a boat which would float upon water. There were no windows in the sides of the ark. It was three stories high, and the light they received was from a window in the top. The door was in the side. The different apartments prepared for the reception of different animals were so made that the window in the top gave light to all. The ark was made of the cypress or gopher wood, which would know nothing of decay for hundreds of years. It was a building of great durability, which no wisdom of man could invent. God was the designer, and Noah His master builder. {SR 63.3}

After Noah had done all in his power to make every part of the work correct, it was impossible that it could of itself withstand the violence of the storm which God in His fierce anger was to bring upon the earth. The work of completing the building was a slow process. Every piece of timber was closely fitted, and every seam covered with pitch. All that men could do was done to make the work perfect; yet, after all, God alone could preserve the building upon the angry, heaving billows, by His miraculous power. {SR 64.1}

A multitude at first apparently received the warning of Noah, yet did not fully turn to God with true repentance. There was some time given them before the Flood was to come, in which they were to be placed upon probation—to be proved and tried. They failed to endure the trial. The prevailing degeneracy overcame them, and they finally joined others who were corrupt in deriding and scoffing at faithful Noah. They would not leave off their sins but continued in polygamy and in the indulgence of their corrupt passions. {SR 64.2}

The period of their probation was drawing near its close. The unbelieving, scoffing inhabitants of the world were to have a special sign of God’s divine power. Noah had faithfully followed the instructions God had given to him. The ark was finished exactly as God had directed. He had laid in store immense quantities of food for man and beast. And after this was accomplished, God commanded the faithful Noah, “Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before Me.” {SR 64.3}
 
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The Animals Enter the Ark
Angels were sent to collect from the forest and field the beasts which God had created. Angels went before these animals, and they followed, two and two, male and female, and clean beasts by sevens. These beasts, from the most ferocious, down to the most gentle and harmless, peacefully and solemnly marched into the ark. The sky seemed clouded with birds of every description. They came flying to the ark, two and two, male and female, and the clean birds by sevens. The world looked on with wonder—some with fear, but they had become so hardened by rebellion that this most signal manifestation of God’s power had but a momentary influence upon them. For seven days these animals were coming into the ark, and Noah was arranging them in the places prepared for them. {SR 65.1}

And as the doomed race beheld the sun shining in its glory and the earth clad in almost its Eden beauty, they drove away their rising fears by boisterous merriment, and by their deeds of violence seemed to be encouraging upon themselves the visitation of the already awakened wrath of God. {SR 65.2}

Everything was now ready for the closing of the ark, which could not have been done by Noah from within. An angel is seen by the scoffing multitude descending from heaven, clothed with brightness like the lightning. He closes that massive outer door, and then takes his course upward to heaven again. {SR 65.3}


Seven days were the family of Noah in the ark before the rain began to descend upon the earth. In this time they were arranging for their long stay while the waters should be upon the earth. And these were days of blasphemous merriment by the unbelieving multitude. They thought, because the prophecy of Noah was not fulfilled immediately after he entered the ark, that he was deceived and that it was impossible that the world could be destroyed by a flood. Previous to this there had been no rain upon the earth. A mist had risen from the waters, which God caused to descend at night like dew, reviving vegetation and causing it to flourish. {SR 65.4}

Notwithstanding the solemn exhibition they had witnessed of God’s power—of the unnatural occurrence of the beasts’ leaving the forests and fields, and going into the ark, and the angel of God clothed with brightness and terrible in majesty descending from heaven and closing the door; yet they hardened their hearts and continued to revel and sport over the signal manifestations of divine power. {SR 66.1}

The Storm Breaks
But upon the eighth day the heavens gathered blackness. The muttering thunders and vivid lightning flashes began to terrify man and beast. The rain descended from the clouds above them. This was something they had never witnessed, and their hearts began to faint with fear. The beasts were roving about in the wildest terror, and their discordant voices seemed to moan out their own destiny and the fate of man. The storm increased in violence until water seemed to come from heaven like mighty cataracts. The boundaries of rivers broke away, and the waters rushed to the valleys. The foundations of the great deep also were broken up. Jets of water would burst up from the earth with indescribable force, throwing massive rocks hundreds of feet into the air, and then they would bury themselves deep in the earth. {SR 66.2}

The people first beheld the destruction of the works of their hands. Their splendid buildings, their beautifully arranged gardens and groves, where they had placed their idols, were destroyed by lightning from heaven. Their ruins were scattered everywhere. They had erected altars in groves, and consecrated them to their idols, whereon they offered human sacrifices. These which God detested were torn down in His wrath before them, and they were made to tremble before the power of the living God, the Maker of the heavens and the earth, and they were made to know that it was their abominations and horrible, idolatrous sacrifices which had called for their destruction. {SR 67.1}

The violence of the storm increased, and there were mingled with the warring of the elements, the wailings of the people who had despised the authority of God. Trees, buildings, rocks, and earth were hurled in every direction. The terror of man and beast was beyond description. And even Satan himself, who was compelled to be amid the warring elements, feared for his own existence. He had delighted to control so powerful a race, and wished them to live to practice their abominations, and increase their rebellion against the God of heaven. He uttered imprecations against God, charging Him with injustice and cruelty. Many of the people, like Satan, blasphemed God, and if they could have carried out their rebellion, would have torn Him from His throne of justice. {SR 67.2}

While many were blaspheming and cursing their Creator, others were frantic with fear, stretching their hands toward the ark, pleading for admittance. But this was impossible. God had closed the door, the only entrance, and shut Noah in and the ungodly out. He alone could open the door. Their fear and repentance came too late. They were compelled to know that there was a living God who was mightier than man, whom they had defied and blasphemed. They called upon Him earnestly, but His ear was not open to their cry. Some in their desperation sought to break into the ark, but that firm-made structure resisted all their efforts. Some clung to the ark until borne away with the furious surging of the waters, or their hold was broken off by rocks and trees that were hurled in every direction. {SR 67.3}

Those who had slighted the warning of Noah and ridiculed that faithful preacher of righteousness repented too late of their unbelief. The ark was severely rocked and tossed about. The beasts within expressed, by their varied noises, the wildest terror; yet amid all the warring of the elements, the surging of the waters, and the hurling about of trees and rocks, the ark rode safely. Angels that excel in strength guided the ark and preserved it from harm. Every moment during that frightful storm of forty days and forty nights the preservation of the ark was a miracle of almighty power. {SR 68.1}

The animals exposed to the tempest rushed toward man, choosing the society of human beings, as though expecting help of them. Some of the people bound their children and themselves upon powerful beasts, knowing that they would be tenacious for life, and would climb to the highest points to escape the rising water. The storm did not abate its fury—the waters increased faster than at first. Some fastened themselves to lofty trees upon the highest points of land, but these trees were torn up by the roots and carried with violence through the air and appeared as though angrily hurled, with stones and earth, into the swelling, boiling billows. Upon the loftiest heights human beings and beasts strove to hold their position until all were hurled together into the foaming waters, which nearly reached the highest points of land. The loftiest heights were at length reached, and man and beast alike perished by the waters of the Flood. {SR 68.2}

Anxiously did Noah and his family watch the decrease of the waters. He desired to go forth upon the earth again. He sent out a raven which flew back and forth to and from the ark. He did not receive the information he desired, and he sent forth a dove, which, finding no rest, returned to the ark again. After seven days the dove was sent forth again, and when the olive leaf was seen in its mouth, there was great rejoicing by this family of eight, which had so long been shut up in the ark. {SR 69.1}

Again an angel descended and opened the door of the ark. Noah could remove the top, but he could not open the door which God had shut. God spoke to Noah through the angel who opened the door, and bade the family of Noah go forth out of the ark and bring forth with them every living thing. {SR 69.2}
 
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BobRyan

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Building the Ark took centuries, and god told Noah how to do it. Chances are, even if the other people knew what was coming, which they likely did not, they would not have had the knowledge to save themselves.
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Since you are speculating on events relating to the ark and the flood - I offer a Christian alternative.

As in the examples given for the "origin of evil" and the "creation" and fall of mankind --- you may reject it - but you should at least know what it is.

THE FLOOD
1. Warning mankind and Building the ark 3 minutes ago#1412
2. The flood – the Storm Breaks - 4 minutes ago#1413
 
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