Here's my problem, I believe in evolution, and it brings up doubts especially in the OT...

[bhsmte]

No. I say it's atheistic. There is no God required for the false theory of evolutionism to work....

The christians who force fit evolutionism into scripture are spreaing a lie.

Are those Christians who agree with evolution, real Christians?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

No. I say it's atheistic. There is no God required for the false theory of evolutionism to work....

The christians who force fit evolutionism into scripture are spreaing a lie.

What God does all the time in the same consistent way we call the laws of science.
What God does on occasion in a special way we call a miracle.
Its all God.

God used evolution. The trails of His evolution are left in His rocks. The signs of His evolution are left in the genes. The fact of His evolution is still being observed today.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Perhaps that might be so. But to the theo-evos I ask...what caused sin. The bible explains it but the theo-evos change it.

Better question: what causes sin?

 

[Hoghead1]

Yes, Bhsmte, I hold that Christians who believe in evolution are real Christians. I happen to be one of them. Most liberal Christians do in fact believe in evolution. What about evolution and the Bible? I don't believe that the Bible is an accurate geophysical witness and I do not believe it was ever intended to be. Incidentally, this view goes back to Augustine, who said that the plain text of Genesis was an inaccurate geophysical witness, and also Calvin, who, in his commentary on Genesis, argued that God did not intend to teach us astronomy via Scripture. When people go to define Christianity, I think it important to bear in mind that Christianity was never a monolithic religion, just one way. Rather, Christianity is a rich plurality of divergent beliefs. That confuses many, but I like it, because it means e have choices. If you are unhappy in one church, you are not stuck, but can go find another that you are happier with. Not all Christians can be or should be on the right. I had a long exposure to conservative or right-wing teachings. I appreciate many find spiritual comfort on the right. I certainly did not. I found that conservative Christianity did not begin to meet my spiritual and intellectual needs, especially my need to question everything. So I moved as far to the left as I could.

 

[Hoghead1]

Look, -57, I don't know where you are getting your information form on the "theo-evos." I believe God and evolution are one. I think what's throwing you is that I do not believe in original sin. I hold this concept originated in St. Augustine and is definitely not to be found in Scripture. So the only criticism you can make here is that the "theo-evos" do not agree with your understanding of the Bible , and not that we can't account for sin. Also, as I have pointed out elsewhere, I would not label myself as an evolutionary theist. I don't know who started that term, but I know of few Christians into evolution who actually use that label to describe themselves.

 

[Hoghead1]

Nobody force fed me anything in school and I am into God and evolution. And if we are going to get polemical and accuse others of force feeding, I find that historically most of the force feeding went on via the church, which has a long history of persecuting intellectuals and scientists.

 

[Hoghead1]

Again, -57, you need to do a far better job of studying your subject matter here. I and many other Christians holding with evolution argue that it would be impossible without God. Why? Evolution requires a transcendental source of creative potentiality , and that transcendent imagination is God.

 

[Hieronymus]

We've all bee force-fed naturalistic views in western culture.
Here in Europe too.
Nobody even doubts it, execpt for some literalist Christians and fundamental Muslims, but they're stuck in the dark ages, right?

So it's rare to come across a lead to proper creationist apology, philosophy and science.

Both sides have the same scientific data to interpret.

 

[Hieronymus]

Again, -57, you need to do a far better job of studying your subject matter here. I and many other Christians holding with evolution argue that it would be impossible without God. Why? Evolution requires a transcendental source of creative potentiality , and that transcendent imagination is God.

That's serpent language.

 

[Hoghead1]

Sorry, Hieronymus, making an inappropriate inflammatory remark, such as you did above, is no solid rational rebuttal. If you want me to take your seriously, stop the name-calling and get down to business and present me with as best a rational rebuttal as you can.

 

[Hoghead1]

When I read the smug, somewhat insulting attacks on evolution that come from this site, I cannot help but think how naïve the writers are. It seems they have failed to learn a hard-won lesion from history: Whenever the church attacked science and other major intellectual achievements, it has always ended up with the short end of the stick but good.

 

[Hieronymus]

Sorry, Hieronymus, making an inappropriate inflammatory remark, such as you did above, is no solid rational rebuttal.

[edit]Yes, i was too harsh...
I didn't even read it properly, is what i see now.
I apologise.

 

[Hieronymus]

<Staff edit>
Well, man is still wicked and therefore not justified to enter Gods Kingdom.
But God loves the world so much, He gave his only begotten Son, to justify the believing repentant sinners and pay their debt.
Because the Law is given, and we break it regularly, being unholy beings.

 

[Hieronymus]

When I read the smug, somewhat insulting attacks on evolution that come from this site, I cannot help but think how naïve the writers are. It seems they have failed to learn a hard-won lesion from history: Whenever the church attacked science and other major intellectual achievements, it has always ended up with the short end of the stick but good.

You fail to see evolution is not as scientific as they claim.
It's a 150 year old bankrupt conjecture which they try to prove or at least make you believe it.

Non the less, it's the only scientific (naturalistic) attempt to explain what we have today, but that doesn't mean it's correct.
Because it DOESN'T explain what we see today.

 

[Hieronymus]

you're just................

justified in Christ.

 

[-57]

Are those Christians who agree with evolution, real Christians?

What kind of question is that? It would be like me asking you...are those atheist who don't agree with evolutionism real atheist?

Only God knows a persons heart. I would say if you are a christian and throw out the reason for the bible...you just might not be a christian, or, you're deceived.

 

[-57]

What God does all the time in the same consistent way we call the laws of science.
What God does on occasion in a special way we call a miracle.
Its all God.

God used evolution. The trails of His evolution are left in His rocks. The signs of His evolution are left in the genes. The fact of His evolution is still being observed today.

How can you possible say "What God does all the time in the same consistent way we call the laws of science."

You do know that science says if you're dead...you stay dead on day 3. Did your Jesus rise from the dead? Was Jesus consistent with the laws of science?

 

[-57]

Better question: what causes sin?

If you're a theo-evo you would have to say a mutation.

 

[bhsmte]

What kind of question is that? It would be like me asking you...are those atheist who don't agree with evolutionism real atheist?

Only God knows a persons heart. I would say if you are a christian and throw out the reason for the bible...you just might not be a christian, or, you're deceived.

It is a simple question and asked your opinion of whether a Christian could agree with evolution and still be a Christian, in your eyes.

 

[-57]

It is a simple question and asked your opinion of whether a Christian could agree with evolution and still be a Christian, in your eyes.

I thought I said yes...but they are deceived and polluting scripture with that false belief.