Genesis Is the understanding the of Ancient Hebrews.It doesn't have to be scientific.

[Subduction Zone]

The people would have no idea that a flood was coming. Those on the lowest ground had no way to communicate a coming flood to anyone else. It was raining, possibly hard; they would have been dealing with that by staying sheltered. Visibility would have been poor. When the flood water arrived they would have had no time to prepare for a trek to high ground. If some did make to 'safety' it would only be temporary as they would have died from starvation and exposure.

That is an assumption that you cannot justify. First you need to tell us the limit of the flood. And remember, there is still no physical evidence of this flood. Even with your limited flood there is evidence of older smaller floods that should have been overwritten if your version ever occurred. And you still have not explained where the water came from, where it went too. And why we do not see universal population bottlenecks.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God appears to be a bit bigger than you think.

No, I am not limiting God at all, except saying that God must be honest. Is your God an honest God?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I believe the cataclysms that formed the mountains happened millions of years before the flood, possibly with the overthrow of Lucifer. Also see GAP theory.

Sorry, but we can date the formation of the mountains. Their formation was hardly "cataclysmic". Once again, you need to deny all of science if you are going to have those beliefs.

 

[AV1611VET]

A person that can reason and has an all or nothing attitude will be forced to drop Christianity.

Like Paul was?

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

 

[-57]

No, I am not limiting God at all, except saying that God must be honest. Is your God an honest God?

By asking that question...are you saying your ever-changing science knows more than God? This makes God dishonest?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Lucifer walked in the Garden of Eden.....in an unfallen state. Do you put the date of the Garden of Eden millions of years before the flood?

Lucifer/Satan was definitely in a spiritually fallen state in the Garden of Eden. He/she/it is still the "god of this world" until Christ replaces he/she/it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Sorry, but we can date the formation of the mountains. Their formation was hardly "cataclysmic". Once again, you need to deny all of science if you are going to have those beliefs.

Subduction and uplift of the continental plates is a cataclysm regardless of how slowly they occur.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Like Paul was?

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Paul had very little evidence, and let's not get into his story. It does not hold up too well to skepticism.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Subduction and uplift of the continental plates is a cataclysm.

No, it is a slow steady process. By your definition a tree growing is a cataclysm.

 

[Subduction Zone]

By asking that question...are you saying your ever-changing science knows more than God? This makes God dishonest?

I did not imply that. Where did you get that idea from?

 

[Aman777]

The flood stood 15 cubits above the highest hills that man occupied at that time. How else would they be drowned? No need to cover Mt. Everest, or even the Mts. of Ararat as there was nobody up there.

Here is the Scripture:

Gen7:18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits (22.5 feet) upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

The flood waters covered the Earth until the Ark was lifted upon the water. The waters continued to cover the Earth until ALL the high hills were covered. The waters continued to rise and when they reached 22.5 feet deep, the mountains were covered. Scripture does NOT say the mountains were covered with 22.5 feet of water ABOVE the mountains.

*** The account states that the main flood waters came from the seas (the fountains of "the great deep") and returned there; to the deep. Why question that?

The account states that it rained for 40 days and nights AND "were all the fountains of the great deep broken up" Adam's Earth had fountains that came up from the water which was BELOW the dry ground. Adam's Earth was watered by water which was BELOW his Earth as the following verse reveals:

Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. (Heb-earth)

The Seas were the sound which the water made when God brought the water from the deep, to inside the hollow firmament of Adam's world.

Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called He Seas: (Hebrew- a roaring)

As the flood water covered Adam's small Earth, which was inside the firmament, the firmament sank into Lake Van, Turkey, releasing the 450 ft long Ark into our world. The Ark came into our Eco sphere from Adam's small world which had only 4 Rivers. Gen 2:10 By comparison, our Earth has THOUSANDS of Rivers. It was Adam's small Earth which perished (was totally destroyed) in the Flood. 2Pe 3:6

That is God's Literal Truth of Scripture. Amen?

 

[-57]

Lucifer/Satan was definitely in a spiritually fallen state in the Garden of Eden. He/she/it is still the "god of this world" until Christ replaces he/she/it.

This verse says otherwise.

Eze 28:13"You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.14"You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire

 

[-57]

I did not imply that. Where did you get that idea from?

I was trying to figure out why you would call God dishonest.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I was trying to figure out why you would call God dishonest.

Please try to follow the logic. I am not calling God dishonest. People that believe in the Flood have to do that. Let me explain, all of the evidence out there says that there was no flood. That evidence would have to have been made by your version of God. That means for someone to believe in the Flood as a global flood one has to believe in a dishonest God. That is why some Christian groups do not believe in the Flood as a worldwide one. In fact many of them think of it more as a morality tale than anything else. As this group of Christian scientists do:

http://biologos.org/common-questions/biblical-interpretation/genesis-flood

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Here is the Scripture:

Gen7:18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits (22.5 feet) upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

I reinterpreted the scripture so it makes more sense:

Gen7:18 "And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits (22.5 feet) upward did the waters prevail; and the high hills were covered." (No need to cover the mountains, no one lived up there.)

The flood waters covered the Earth until the Ark was lifted upon the water. The waters continued to cover the Earth until ALL the high hills were covered. The waters continued to rise and when they reached 22.5 feet deep, the mountains were covered. Scripture does NOT say the mountains were covered with 22.5 feet of water ABOVE the mountains.

It says the "high hills" were covered to a depth of 15 cubits, so that any living there would be drowned.

The account states that it rained for 40 days and nights AND "were all the fountains of the great deep broken up" Adam's Earth had fountains that came up from the water which was BELOW the dry ground. Adam's Earth was watered by water which was BELOW his Earth as the following verse reveals:

Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. (Heb-earth)

This just describes the evaporate/condense water cycle and has nothing to do with the flood.

I'm still vacillating on the source of the flood water. I favor the oceans as the source but underground springs are indicated in scripture. This would require the land to sink greatly which would be the force that shoots the water upward. This would indeed be cataclysmic and unless God repaired the land such a breakup would be evident. Of course it was a supernatural event so anything is possible.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This verse says otherwise.

Eze 28:13"You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.14"You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire

You forgot the next few verses:

15 "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. (Iniquity was found in Lucifer long before the earthly Garden of Eden event.)

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."

Lucifer was cast out of heaven, the Eden of God. The fall of Eve (and subsequently that of Adam) is the physical type of the fall of Lucifer.

 

[Aman777]

Gen 5 presents the linage from Adam to Noah. To use that chapter/verse in a linear presentation of time...to show Adam was made in Gods likeness after Cain killed Abel...is bad hermeneutics.

Doesn't matter since man's hermeneutics FAIL to tell us that Today remains the 6th Day. IOW, these "supposed" scholars don't know what Day it is. Amen?

 

[-57]

Please try to follow the logic. I am not calling God dishonest. People that believe in the Flood have to do that. Let me explain, all of the evidence out there says that there was no flood. That evidence would have to have been made by your version of God. That means for someone to believe in the Flood as a global flood one has to believe in a dishonest God. That is why some Christian groups do not believe in the Flood as a worldwide one. In fact many of them think of it more as a morality tale than anything else. As this group of Christian scientists do:

http://biologos.org/common-questions/biblical-interpretation/genesis-flood

There is plenty of evidense that strongly suggest a global flood. This evidense is presented by Christian scientist.
Now, you being an atheist, I understand you are not to believe in the bible. I can accept that...just don't accuse me or God of being dishonest. Got it?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No, it is a slow steady process. By your definition a tree growing is a cataclysm.

It's a 'process' only in that it must follow the laws of physics. Speed it up and it will surely appear as a destructive event on an unimaginable scale.

 

[Aman777]

I reinterpreted the scripture so it makes more sense:

Gen7:18 "And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits (22.5 feet) upward did the waters prevail; and the high hills were covered." (No need to cover the mountains, no one lived up there.)

It says the "high hills" were covered to a depth of 15 cubits, so that any living there would be drowned.

Sorry, but that is what's called "adding to" what is actually written. The text says "mountains" which you changed to "high hills". IF what you say was true, then WHY did God made THREE Heavens? One on Day 2. Gen 1:8 and other HeavenS on Day 3. Gen 2:4

Also, some creatures would have climbed to safety if the mountains were NOT covered.

Also, this verse from the N.T. would make NO sense.

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world (Greek-Kosmos) that THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, perished: (Greek-destroyed totally) Amen?