The gift of Tongues

[Butch5]

This is consistent with reality. If indeed the ability to speak a foreign language supernaturally had continued for over 2,000 years, not a single missionary would need to learn any foreign language and spend months or years becoming proficient. They could pray for this supernatural ability and they would speak supernaturally, since one can ask for gifts according to Scripture.

Furthermore, this gift would not be limited to Pentecostal or Charismatic churches but would be present in each and every assembly of regenerated Christians across the board. There would be no *Tongues Movement* and it would be one of the spiritual gifts along with the others. Paul said *Are there tongues -- they shall CEASE* (1 Cor 13:8,9). And they have ceased as pertains to the Bible tongues.

I agree!

 

[rockytopva]

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. - 1 Cor 13:8

Please take the whole verse in context...

Have all the prophecies failed... I don't think so!
Has all the knowledge vanished .... I don't think so!
Has all the tongues ceased... Again... Not in my church!

 

[Shane658]

27 If anyone speaks in [another] language, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let them be silent in church and speak to themselves and to God.
...
37 Anyone who claims to be a prophet, or to have spiritual powers, must acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord. 38 Anyone who does not recognize this is not to be recognized. 39 So, my friends, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues; 40 but all things should be done decently and in order.​

This kind of uninterpreted babble is in direct opposition to this teaching, and the words of Paul are rather strong.

Do not forbid tongues, correct, but they must be done properly (i.e. interpreted or be quiet) or they/the speaker are not to be recognized.

None of us, then, should be recognizing the "tongues" in this video. They are not tongues.

Agreed they are not, its extremely hard to convince Charismatics and Pentecostals that what they are doing is not scriptural.After you disprove one verse then another one gets used to justify this babbling, but yet not one person I have seen admit that their understanding on that particular verse was in error.The Pentecostal/Charismatics will be some of the first people to join the one world religion and not even know it.
They are too far in a delusion.They do not understand that God would not hand out this so called "Tongues" in the presence of false teachers like Benny Hinn, Pat Robertson, Rick Warren, Kenneth Hagin, T.D. Jakes, T.D Joshua. Use your Brains people.They are conditioning the masses of Christians in the protestant branch to rely on FALSE SIGNS AND WONDERS, which is used in the endtimes.Clearly its working cause so many believe this gibberish is from God and yet still ignore clear proof from scripture that disproves whats going on in those churches.
They believe the end time is a revival,when clearly the bible states there is Apostasy/Falling away from the truth of the word of God.It is fully of deception.Even the popular Pre tribulation Rapture is false doctrine and yet majority of Christians believe it. Thats how strong these endtime lies are.To all my Pentecostal/Charismatics reread again and again. I advise reading some of the Points made by earlier posters on this deception.

 

[Shane658]

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. - 1 Cor 13:8

Please take the whole verse in context...

Have all the prophecies failed... I don't think so!
Has all the knowledge vanished .... I don't think so!
Has all the tongues ceased... Again... Not in my church!

Show me one person that has accurately predicted a future event that has come 100 percent true.
Knowledge from God. not learned Knowledge .We have man made knowledge.
Tongues the ability to speak in another human language without being learned.

You cant learn Prophecies, it is a Gift from God.
You don't wake up knowing how to do something or knowing about something.You have to learn it.
I have yet to see anyone have the ability to speak in another human language without learning it.

All of these can not be learned they are Gifts from God that one not acquire naturally but they have ceased.

 

[rockytopva]

Well, if you believe the tongues have ceased you will easily put finding a church where nobody speaks in tongues. I do not personally like a church that is cold as a freezer.

 

[Hillsage]

On reading the book, "Run Baby Run," by Nikki Cruise, I felt a voice telling me to put the book down. I paused, and then continued again to read. The voice said again "Put the book down." I slept in my Grandmothers living room on an old fold away cot by the open living room door. The Katydids seemed to be singing very loud that night. There in my Grandmothers clean linens I heard the Spirit speak again, "Where is all the stress, worry and hatred?" In which, upon examining my heart, there was nothing there but pure beauty. I thought to myself, "Oh my! I got exactly what those people got!" I would spend the rest of the summer rejoicing with the people and in revival until I went back to Michigan later that September.

Love your testimony rockytopva. But I'm curious as to this last paragraph. Any idea 'why' you feel you weren't supposed to read "Run Baby Run"? And also, did you ever finish it...anyway?

 

[rockytopva]

Love your testimony rockytopva. But I'm curious as to this last paragraph. Any idea 'why' you feel you weren't supposed to read "Run Baby Run"? And also, did you ever finish it...anyway?

The Holy Spirit had something to say to me and couldn't speak while I was reading. I did finish the book by the way.

 

[Shane658]

Well, if you believe the tongues have ceased you will easily put finding a church where nobody speaks in tongues. I do not personally like a church that is cold as a freezer.

So you rather go to a church that doesn't follow Gods rules and teaches false doctrines?The bible clearly states to come out of those churches, I hope you do realize.

 

[rockytopva]

The Apostle Paul said...

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

So it is also false doctrine to forbid folks from speaking in tongues.

 

[Biblicist]

Random babblings or repeating some syllable again and again is not a language of any sort, not a language of men or of angels or of God. It MAY BE an emotional release of sorts and it may be evidence of the yearning of the speaker to communicate with God, but it's not a language and not what the Bible refers to as a "tongue."

Even though it has been some time since I've heard anyone speaking in sounds that appear to be 'random babblings' or where they also appear to be 'repeating some sybllables again and again', when I've heard these things in the past, I must admit that I have wondered about these persons as well - but who knows!

As for my own prayer language, it certainly sounds language-like where it is definitely more pleasing to my Anglo-ear than are some East Asian languages (and even some European as well); I must admit that when I am within such a people group that their dialects can amount to being nothing less than a complete assault on my ears. But as their language structure is highly tonal, my Anglo-ears can easily struggle to define what I am hearing as being language, but their languages are still languages and who knows, maybe our less tonal English could upset their ears as well.

As for the reference in 1 Cor 14.2 to the effect that "nobody" understands the speaker...this isn't a guarantee that there is not a single person anywhere on Earth who speaks that language but, rather, what is obvious, that it's "unknown" to those within earshot of the speaker.

Oh . . . so "no-one understands" does not really mean "no-one" but merely that there will not be anyone in the meeting who will be able to understand. You should be able to understand that Paul is still saying that there is no chance that there will be anyone present in our meetings who will be able to understand what the Holy Spirit is saying. I feel sorry for those who are still within the cessationist worldview as you really are forced to rewrite so much of Paul's writings - which must undoubtedly make you feel uncomfortable as well.

If Paul had considered that it was possible for the Holy Spirit to speak in a human and not an angelic tongue then he would have had to discuss this point in some detail. I could not imagine for a second that someone would not have asked Paul about this possibility as well. You have to ask yourself why Paul did not discuss the very difficult and problematic scenario where some atheist could come in where they claimed that someone in the meeting who spoke in tongues was in fact cursing Jesus. If it was possible for the Holy Spirit to speak to the Father in a human language then this is something that Paul would have had to address.

 

[Albion]

Even though it has been some time since I've heard anyone speaking in sounds that appear to be 'random babblings' or where they also appear to be 'repeating some sybllables again and again', when I've heard these things in the past, I must admit that I have wondered about these persons as well - but who knows!

As for my own prayer language, it certainly sounds language-like where it is definitely more pleasing to my Anglo-ear than are some East Asian languages (and even some European as well); I must admit that when I am within such a people group that their dialects can amount to being nothing less than a complete assault on my ears. But as their language structure is highly tonal, my Anglo-ears can easily struggle to define what I am hearing as being language, but their languages are still languages and who knows, maybe our less tonal English could upset their ears as well.

That's worth mentioning. The tongues speakers in the English-speaking world are almost always speaking as one would speak English, not as a Chinese or African would speak. The inflections, the tone, etc. is like English except for the all-too-common fake Middle Eastern twist a lot of people (like Kenneth Copeland) try to put on the sounds.

Oh . . . so "no-one understands" does not really mean "no-one" but merely that there will not be anyone in the meeting who will be able to understand.

Now you've got it. You don't literally mean that there is no human anywhere when you use such wording and neither does the Scripture.

 

[Biblicist]

Agreed they are not, its extremely hard to convince Charismatics and Pentecostals that what they are doing is not scriptural.After you disprove one verse then another one gets used to justify this babbling, but yet not one person I have seen admit that their understanding on that particular verse was in error.The Pentecostal/Charismatics will be some of the first people to join the one world religion and not even know it.

Hate to say it buddy . . . but the Pentecostals are about the only ones who have not joined the World Council of Churches, where we have always viewed the WCC as being a worldly organisation that is the domain of the cessationist worldview.

Quote: From the World Council of Churches

"The majority of Pentecostal churches have chosen not to participate in any ecumenical organization. This comes, in part, because of their restorationist perspective on the history of the church that views existing churches as having fallen away from God's intentions through compromise and sin".​

They are too far in a delusion.They do not understand that God would not hand out this so called "Tongues" in the presence of false teachers like Benny Hinn, Pat Robertson, Rick Warren, Kenneth Hagin, T.D. Jakes, T.D Joshua.

How silly! My reply is simple, in that as cessationism is well known for denying that Christ is the Son of God, that there are multiple ways to heaven, where homosexuality is rampant through its ranks, sexual sins amongst their leadership, where the Scriptures are denigrated along with a host of other grievious sins, then does this mean that all cessationists believe and practice these vile things . . . or is it only with the majority maybe?

Use your Brains people.

Is this maybe a quote from Richard Dawkins or even the humanist David Hume - don't forget, they're both cessationists as well?

 

[Butch5]

Corruptible/incorruptible a 'good character' it means "perishable/imperishable" IOW returning to dust. And I agree, this whole passage is dealing with ourphysical bodies/"earthly tent"/"tabernacle"/dwelling place for Sspirits. And Paul is saying, he doesn't want to be a spirit without a body to live in. That's what demons are, is disembodied spirits which long to manifest in this realm God has given man. So the only way a"spirit of fear/judgment/uncleanness/infirmity/divination"can manifest is through a willing human being who has submitted their soul/mind,will,emotion to 'it'.

I submit that Paul's point is that the corruptible would put on incorruption, not that corruptible would take off corruption and then put on incorruption. Read closely what he said. That corruption would be overclothed with incorruption. His argument leaves no place for a spirit of man to leave his body as that person.

I know nothing of Greek philosophy concerning this POV. But I have substantiated that POV with scripture IMO.

You didn't address the issue. In one place you said a man consists of all three parts then in another you said, "I am a spirit."

I never said it did. Of course he could speak/pray in any language of man to pray. But only if he'd first learned that language. And in those languages his mind would not be 'unfruitful' because he would understand what he was saying even if you didn't because you didn't speak 'foreign languages of men'. But the 'prayer tongue of your spirit' is NOT a known language to any man according to scripture. It's a language spoken "unto God".

1CO 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tonguespeaketh not unto men,but unto God: forNO MAN understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

I would submit that there is no prayer tongue that in a language unknown to man. In the letter Paul insists that one interpret the tongue. If someone went into a church and spoke a language that was unknown to everyone in the church then the only one who would understand would be God who understands all of the languages. That is why Paul says he speaks to God. His point is that this is unproductive. What point is there in speaking mysteries to God? Doesn't He already know the mysteries since He's the one who is revealing them?

Your 'bolded' by me comment is 'the whole truth' of all you said IMO. I've given scripture proving we need to be able to go to God in prayer to build ourselves up when we're down.

I disagree and believe you've misunderstood Paul. We are not to build ourselves up. Scripture tells us to humble ourselves not build ourselves up.


11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? (1 Cor. 1:11-13 KJV)


They're bragging about who their teacher is.


KJV 1 Cor. 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

18 Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come to you.

KJV 1 Cor. 4:19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.

KJV 1 Cor. 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

KJV 1 Cor. 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

KJV Col. 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,


17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.

18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. (1 Cor. 11:17-18 KJV)


22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. (1 Cor. 11:22 KJV)


I think it's pretty clear from these passages that Paul is chastising them for edifying themselves. They were puffed up, prideful, self edification. So, when he says the one who prays in tongues edifies himself he's condemning them for it, not telling them to do it.





Earlier you said, "I am a spirit". If that is the case then you should know what you pray in a tongue.

Hmm. That is a point I've never pondered. So don't have an answer other than to say scripture isn't saying my spirit understands either. I do know that we are told to pray for an interpretation of our prayer tongue. Why would that be, if indeed it was a 'language of man' that we'd already learned?

1CO 14:13 Whereforelet him that speakethin anunknown tongue praythat he mayinterpret.
14 For ifI pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, butmy understanding is unfruitful.
I do this, but admittely not very frequently. And as I've prayed in English after a time in tongues, something may suddenly come to mind which I believe was of God by the Spirit of revelation. Maybe a 'word of knowledge' or 'word of wisdom' even...not sure sometimes.


This passage doesn't say to ask for an interpretation of a prayer tongue. It says let him who speaks in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. The gift of tongues was the ability to speak the gospel in a language which you didn't know. It was a sing to unbelievers, particularly the Jewish leadership.

Your opinion which you haven't proven to me scripturally. I've given 2 'triune being' scriptures you don't agree with but haven't refuted, I don''t believe.

It's not opinion. I gave you the creation of man in Gen 2. After God created the man He breathed into him the breath of life and the man became a living soul. The passage doesn't say that man got a soul, it says he became a soul. So a soul is what he is, not something he has.


The passages you gave me don't say that man is triune, you've brought that to the text.


12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Heb. 4:12 KJV)


23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess. 5:23 KJV)


These are the passages. Neither of these say that man is a triune being. They're not teaching the nature of man.

Spirit is nebulous as is wind. And the spirit/soul is also, even as scripture states. As is the"separation of spirit and soul" by the sword of the spirit. I suppose my best definition is this; Thespiritrepresents the'animating life'force of a body and thesoulrepresents the'motivating life'force.

The words translated spirit, simply mean wind or breath. Spirit is a metaphorical or figurative use of these words. The idea of a wind is that of a moving unseen force. The breath of life is that force from God that cannot be seen, yet gives life (moving force) to living souls. It's the spirit that gives life to man, it not who the man is.

 

[Shane658]

The Apostle Paul said...

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

So it is also false doctrine to forbid folks from speaking in tongues.

Someone already stated that that is must be done correctly "herefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. 40But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner."
Are you ignoring verse 40?
Corinthians used the Gift incorrectly for themselves and not others.The book was about correcting them.Do you understand that tongues means languages? Its called GIft of Languages/Human languages.
You think God would give you a gift to used for your self benefit and not others.
I can send you some links for you to read to help you understand.
Do you realize what you call tongues is confusion and the bible says that God is not the author of confusion."For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints"
Corinthians 14:33

 

[Hillsage]

The point of me saying that was to show that once again your proving my point on how it doesn't line with what is spoken in scripture.Did Paul not say "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?"

Which goes to show you still need a teacher since everything you've just said proves you never 'truly heard' the many times it has been explained. I DO pray in private in my spirit's tongue where my mind is unfruitful of, just like the bible talks about. AND I do pray in English, both alone and corporately with 'fruitful understanding'. That's why it's FUNNY, but sad, to see you think you understand when you don't appear to not even have an unknown tongue.

You keep saying Unlearned or ungifted yet how can you yourself say Amen to what was said in the video?You cant and neither can I.

I keep putting them in "red" also because they're BOTH bible words which YOU NEVER HAVE ADDRESSED or REFUTED, and neither has anyone who believes as you do. WHY IS THAT?

No one in the video understood anything she said.

Which is also the opinion I gave in my last post based upon believing she was praying her spirit's prayer language thinking it was the Holy Spirit speaking. That's why I said I thought there was no Holy Spirit's 'Gift of interpretation'...therefore there was no interpretation.

The languages at the tower of babel are real human languages today..

You really don't understand do you? That was my whole point. YOUR use of babel is based upon your very lack of understanding true 'Spirit and spirit' supernatural tongues. Therefore you think 'they' are babel when biblically speaking, they are not. And your/my English IS the true language of the biblical tower of Babel.

[/quote]You have yet to disprove the Verse of "tongues of men and Angels" And speaking in an unknown tongue verses that many have already explained to you.[/QUOTE]Just as you have not proven that that Paul was speaking untruthfully when he said those very words.

1CO 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

 

[Biblicist]

That's worth mentioning. The tongues speakers in the English-speaking world are almost always speaking as one would speak English, not as a Chinese or African would speak. The inflections, the tone, etc. is like English except for the all-too-common fake Middle Eastern twist a lot of people (like Kenneth Copeland) try to put on the sounds.

Of course, it is well known that when people pray in the Spirit (tongues) that they will follow the pecularities of their own people group, which is what we would expect to happen. When the Holy Spirit prays through us to the Father, a man sounds like a man, a woman like a woman and children as children. Those who have deep voices will speak the same way and those who speak in a high pitch voice will do the same. The Holy Spirit only speaks through us, he does not put as into some ecstatic trance where he physically changes those parts of the body that control our voice pitch.

Now you've got it. You don't literally mean that there is no human anywhere when you use such wording and neither does the Scripture.

I'm not all that sure that you fully understand the ramifications of what you were saying when you said "no-one" does not mean no-one.

 

[rockytopva]

Someone already stated that that is must be done correctly "herefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. 40But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner."
Are you ignoring verse 40?
Corinthians used the Gift incorrectly for themselves and not others.The book was about correcting them.Do you understand that tongues means languages? Its called GIft of Languages/Human languages.
You think God would give you a gift to used for your self benefit and not others.
I can send you some links for you to read to help you understand.
Do you realize what you call tongues is confusion and the bible says that God is not the author of confusion."For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints"
Corinthians 14:33

Our services were conducted in an orderly manner...

Song service
Prayer
Preaching

The Holy Spirit speaking through that woman aided and enhanced the order of service. I left that church service with my heart warmed!

 

[Job8]

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. - 1 Cor 13:8

Please take the whole verse in context...

Have all the prophecies failed... I don't think so!
Has all the knowledge vanished .... I don't think so!
Has all the tongues ceased... Again... Not in my church!

The context of this passage is the completion of Scripture -- "that which is perfect" (and the Greek word teleion = complete, translated as "perfect") NOT "He who is perfect". Each one of these gifts is related to Divine revelations -- the Word of God. Before the New Testament was completed all these gifts were necessary and being exercised. Once the book of Revelation completed the NT canon, none of these gifts was necessary. None of the Early Church Fathers claimed to be prophets, and that would have been the appropriate forum for prophets.

Up until the late 19th and early 20th centuries there were no prophets (other than false prophets such as Muhammad, Ellen G. White, Joseph Smith, etc.). Today we have false "latter rain" prophets and we have non-biblical tongues. As to the knowledge mentioned, it would have been supernatural knowledge, since knowledge from Scripture is urged upon all Christians -- "grow in grace and in knowledge". Since we now have a complete Bible, these spiritual gifts have vanished away, along with the apostles.

 

[Shane658]

Which goes to show you still need a teacher since everything you've just said proves you never 'truly heard' the many times it has been explained. I DO pray in private in my spirit's tongue where my mind is unfruitful of, just like the bible talks about. AND I do pray in English, both alone and corporately with 'fruitful understanding'. That's why it's FUNNY, but sad, to see you think you understand when you don't appear to not even have an unknown tongue.

I keep putting them in "red" also because they're BOTH bible words which YOU NEVER HAVE ADDRESSED or REFUTED, and neither has anyone who believes as you do. WHY IS THAT?

Which is also the opinion I gave in my last post based upon believing she was praying her spirit's prayer language thinking it was the Holy Spirit speaking. That's why I said I thought there was no Holy Spirit's 'Gift of interpretation'...therefore there was no interpretation.

You really don't understand do you? That was my whole point. YOUR use of babel is based upon your very lack of understanding true 'Spirit and spirit' supernatural tongues. Therefore you think 'they' are babel when biblically speaking, they are not. And your/my English IS the true language of the biblical tower of Babel.
.

There have been 5 people or so who have explained to you crystal clear whats going on in Corinthians and what are Tongues.You are not making any sense that's why no one can understand what you are saying..
"The languages at the tower of babel are real human languages today." This is what i said and this what you said;":And your/my English IS the true language of the biblical tower of Babel." Did i not just say they were real human languages today. what was there to refute in my statement?
Is English not a real human language today?Seems to be.
Everyone has already proved that Corinthians 13:1 is speaking hypothetically.It is clear.

 

[rockytopva]

There are people who speak in tongues and have also the love!