God and the flood

[Colter]

Whereas the UB-guy is here to...?

To genuinely talk about the Urantia Book, talk about the Bible, talk about faith, talk about spirituality.

I think the atheist on his board for the most part are here to pic and find fault, find wedges.

 

[bhsmte]

But I've admitted that I'm not God and have claimed that God is true. How can you know that statement is false?

As a general rule, determining the likely hood of a person's claims to be true, is going to be dependent on how well that person demonstrates them to likely be true. This would usually include; using evidence, logic and reason. When a person trying to convince others of what they claim is true, engages in evading simple questions and contradicts themselves quite often, this does very little for the credibility of their position.

 

[bhsmte]

To genuinely talk about the Urantia Book, talk about the Bible, talk about faith, talk about spirituality.

I think the atheist on his board for the most part are here to pic and find fault, find wedges.

In other words, people who disagree with you, challenge your position, by asking certain questions, pointing out certain evidence, etc. etc..

If your position is valid and applies to others, this shouldn't be a problem for you.

 

[Davian]

Chriliman, the atheist are here to find fault and pick on religious people.

This forum exists for the "Critical examination of the rational grounds of our most fundamental beliefs and logical analysis of the basic concepts employed in the expression of such beliefs".

Should it instead act as an echo chamber for your beliefs?

 

[Colter]

In other words, people who disagree with you, challenge your position, by asking certain questions, pointing out certain evidence, etc. etc..

If your position is valid and applies to others, this shouldn't be a problem for you.

No, those are your words not mine. I think you lost your shallow faith, you are here to find flaws and subversively mock Christians. Atheist who join Christian forums and engage any Christian who happens along down the trail with the same baited questions are not difficult to spot.

 

[bhsmte]

No, those are your words not mine. I think you lost your shallow faith, you are here to find flaws and subversively mock Christians. Atheist who join Christian forums and engage any Christian who happens along down the trail with the same baited questions are not difficult to spot.

When in doubt, don't ask, simply read the other person's mind.

 

[Chriliman]

To genuinely talk about the Urantia Book, talk about the Bible, talk about faith, talk about spirituality.

I think the atheist on his board for the most part are here to pic and find fault, find wedges.

They're falling into God's plan quite nicely, wouldn't you agree? Why wouldn't God allow atheists to try and find fault with Him in order to show how perfect He really is through those that believe in Him. If someone's not going to believe in God then God will use them for other purposes, but they might not like the outcome.

 

[Colter]

When in doubt, don't ask, simply read the other person's mind.

You use that a lot, the tactics of the atheist here doesn't require mind reading. Phonies are easy to spot.

 

[bhsmte]

You use that a lot, the tactics of the atheist here doesn't require mind reading. Phonies are easy to spot.

If you were interested in real discussion, you would ask clarifying questions of another person's position and not assume to know.

Since you don't do this, it tells me something.

 

[Colter]

If you were interested in real discussion, you would ask clarifying questions of another person's position and not assume to know.

Since you don't do this, it tells me something.

Get honest with yourself M8.

 

[bhsmte]

Get honest with yourself M8.

Irony, at it's best.

 

[ecco]

But I've admitted that I'm not God and have claimed that God is true. How can you know that statement is false?

You stated:
However, one can be sincerely deceived and not realize they're being deceived.

You believe it applies to me but you can not contemplate that it applies to you, because you know the truth.

 

[ecco]

You use that a lot, the tactics of the atheist here doesn't require mind reading. Phonies are easy to spot.

Why don't you lay out your beliefs regarding Urantia and see how many christians agree with you.

 

[Freodin]

I understand you think I'm deceived into thinking I have a personal relationship with God, but honestly, how could you possibly know that?

Please note that I am not saying that now to insult you - this is just how it seems to me.

You come here and talk about "honesty" and "reasoning" and "making sense" and "intelligence". You do that a lot.
You come here and claim that you have a personal relationship with God who could easily answer your every question.

Yet in a lot of things, you fail. Things that are rather obvious to me, and, so it seems, to a number of other posters here. Either you are not very "honest", or not very "intelligent"... I cannot explain your utter lack of understanding otherwise.

Still, you claim that you have a God who could answer your every question. Even a simple question like: "What does Freodin mean with this post? Please, help me understand it, God!" You would just have to ask, and God would answer this question.

But somehow you don't ask that. It seems you don't even try that. It seems that even the idea has never crossed your mind. You show, by all your answers, that you do not understand me.

That makes me doubt that you have such a "personal relationship" with someone who can answer your questions.

I do appreciate all that you've said. I can tell you are sincere. However, one can be sincerely deceived and not realize they're being deceived.

A good observation you made there. Now all you have to realize is: that also applies to you!

If you can admit that a personal God who does care about His creation is possible, then you can understand how this God could easily answer my every question as long as I ask Him personally. You do not have a personal relationship with this God, so He can't possibly answer your every question.

I think you limit your own God here a little too much... but I can accept the result of your reasoning. Whether he "can't possibly" answer my questions, whether he won't, or whether he tries, but I don't listen... all the same. The end result: I don't receive an answer to my question.

But here you are again: directly stating "God could easily answer my every question as long as I ask Him personally".

I don't know how much clearer I should make it: I don't have a relationship with God. I don't believe God exists. But you do!
You claim to have that personal relationship. You claim that you could easily answer your every question.

So that is all that I am asking of you! ASK HIM!

Is that so difficult?

 

[Chriliman]

Please note that I am not saying that now to insult you - this is just how it seems to me.

You come here and talk about "honesty" and "reasoning" and "making sense" and "intelligence". You do that a lot.
You come here and claim that you have a personal relationship with God who could easily answer your every question.

Yet in a lot of things, you fail. Things that are rather obvious to me, and, so it seems, to a number of other posters here. Either you are not very "honest", or not very "intelligent"... I cannot explain your utter lack of understanding otherwise.

Still, you claim that you have a God who could answer your every question. Even a simple question like: "What does Freodin mean with this post? Please, help me understand it, God!" You would just have to ask, and God would answer this question.

But somehow you don't ask that. It seems you don't even try that. It seems that even the idea has never crossed your mind. You show, by all your answers, that you do not understand me.

That makes me doubt that you have such a "personal relationship" with someone who can answer your questions.



A good observation you made there. Now all you have to realize is: that also applies to you!


I think you limit your own God here a little too much... but I can accept the result of your reasoning. Whether he "can't possibly" answer my questions, whether he won't, or whether he tries, but I don't listen... all the same. The end result: I don't receive an answer to my question.

But here you are again: directly stating "God could easily answer my every question as long as I ask Him personally".

I don't know how much clearer I should make it: I don't have a relationship with God. I don't believe God exists. But you do!
You claim to have that personal relationship. You claim that you could easily answer your every question.

So that is all that I am asking of you! ASK HIM!

Is that so difficult?

I have been asking Him to help me understand you and this is what I get. "Freodin thinks he understands me with his mind, but his heart is far from me"

That answer makes perfect logical sense to me.

 

[Chriliman]

You stated:
However, one can be sincerely deceived and not realize they're being deceived.

You believe it applies to me but you can not contemplate that it applies to you, because you know the truth.

If you honestly thought you knew the truth because it was personally demonstrated to you, would you think you were being deceived? You would have to be irrational to think so, right?

 

[bhsmte]

I have been asking Him to help me understand you and this is what I get. "Freodin thinks he understands me with his mind, but his heart is far from me"

That answer makes perfect logical sense to me.

Textbook, confirmation bias.

 

[Freodin]

I have been asking Him to help me understand you and this is what I get. "Freodin thinks he understands me with his mind, but his heart is far from me"

That answer makes perfect logical sense to me.

Sincerely deceived, you remember? You can be that, too!

Let me provide you with another example:

Person C is claiming that he has access to a perfect timekeeping device. Person F is doubting that. Person F asks Person C to time an event for him. Person C responds to several of these requests with responses like "Well, I have that device, you don't see it, because you don't believe in it." and "Your heart is far from my time keeping device."

This isn't an answer to such a request. This is an evasion. If Person C were to give a time... any time at all... we could start to see if that time-keeping device is really that great and perfect. But Person C doesn't do that. Nowhere near that.

To relate that to what you wrote earlier:

Why wouldn't God allow atheists to try and find fault with Him in order to show how perfect He really is through those that believe in Him.

Yeah, why wouldn't God allow atheists to try to doubt his ability to answer the question of believers in order to show how perfect he really answers questions for believers... by not showing that he answers questions for believers.

Makes perfect sense. Not showing us really showed it to us!

 

[Davian]

If you honestly thought you knew the truth because...

...you believe...

...it was personally demonstrated to you, would you think you were being deceived?

No, but I may suffer from some cognitive dissonance if what I claimed as truth did not comport with virtually all of mainstream scientific knowledge. I don't have that issue. How about you?

You would have to be irrational to think so, right?

You would have to be irrational to think that you can use semantics to poof your god into existence.

 

[Freodin]

I have been asking Him to help me understand you and this is what I get. "Freodin thinks he understands me with his mind, but his heart is far from me"

That answer makes perfect logical sense to me.

Let's look at that again. You claim to just have asked God, who can answer your every question, and got the answer "Freodin thinks that he understands God with his mind, but his 'heart' is far from God". Correct?

But I do not think that I understand God intellectually, I have never claimed that, and I have never made any remark in that direction. This truth has been personally demonstrated to me - very personally, I do know what I think and what I do not think! - so I cannot be deceived here (according to a honest and reasonable poster here).

The answer that God allegedly gave you is wrong. Not what a perfect omniscient infallible deity would say. But is sounds suspiciously like something that you - the fallible human with a certain predisposition for projecting his religous view on others - would make in order to be able to ignore my questions.