How do you see a perfect designer in the universe we live in?

[alexiscurious]

I constantly hear Christians point out how everything is just so perfectly designed that it demands a creator.

But when scientists look out to space, they see 99.9% of planets and conditions that are hazardous and impermissible to life. Why would a perfect designer create such a toxic universe?

When anthropologists look at the past and look at our ancient human ancestors that are hundreds of thousands to millions of years old they see dramatic physical changes from braincase sizes to the way humans walk. Why are all these changes neccessary if a perfect designer was behind it all?

 

[oi_antz]

I constantly hear Christians point out how everything is just so perfectly designed that it demands a creator.

It isn't perfect, but it is sufficient. Perfection is completeness, but there is something missing, the one thing that should not have been touched was taken from the garden. That is as we know too well, Jehovah's anointed Messiah.

But when scientists look out to space, they see 99.9% of planets and conditions that are hazardous and impermissible to life. Why would a perfect designer create such a toxic universe?

That is an excellent question, but do you know what was brought to my attention only moments ago on a different topic? 1 Corinthians 2:9. How can we possibly imagine what He has planned?

When anthropologists look at the past and look at our ancient human ancestors that are hundreds of thousands to millions of years old they see dramatic physical changes from braincase sizes to the way humans walk. Why are all these changes neccessary if a perfect designer was behind it all?

Have a think of this illustration: we know humans can build castles and cars, computers and submarines. We know that some people amass fortunes in their own lifetime to acquire all of these tools. Yet, if you take a man and place him in a forest with his bare hands, how is he going to build his house? I suggest that he will find tools, and he will use tools to make other tools. This is exactly the way that humans have developed the technology of the present day. So in just the same way as a human cannot mill trees without first building a tree mill, it is entirely conceivable that God too would need to develop the human over time. This is of course assuming the scenario of evolution from a primordial soup as you have loaded into the question. We know that contradicts another valid reading of the Genesis story of human origins that does not allow for evolution. When discussing that case though, you would need to ask a different question.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

I constantly hear Christians point out how everything is just so perfectly designed that it demands a creator.

But when scientists look out to space, they see 99.9% of planets and conditions that are hazardous and impermissible to life. Why would a perfect designer create such a toxic universe?

When anthropologists look at the past and look at our ancient human ancestors that are hundreds of thousands to millions of years old they see dramatic physical changes from braincase sizes to the way humans walk. Why are all these changes neccessary if a perfect designer was behind it all?

Our Universe is on a razors edge as far as design goes so we can be here : http://www.reasons.org/articles/design-evidences-in-the-cosmos-1998

Further, you cant have existing things of reality such as the highly personal/intelligence/and the animate from anything but a higher like initial Source ; materials/chemicals/explosions/planets/mass never produce such things.

Lastly, Our incredible personal theistic Creator has revealed himself not only thru physical creation, but thru the historical person of Jesus Christ coming to earth personally proving HE was and is this Creator . In addition , the Bible can be shown to be supernatural in origin and is thus a revelation of God to all humankind .

God is only too pleased to come into a persons life, but first it requires that you believe he is real / in humility you submit to his authority in your life / and you receive unto yourself the atoning finished merits of Jesus on the cross for your many accumulated sins. Then you will have a right-standing before God and can embark on a deep meaningful fulfilling real relationship with him where he shows himself at work in your life in many various ways. The final outcome is eternally residing with God where he dwells after this short life is over which will be so incredible its difficult to put into works. The choice is yours and mine.

 

[Soyeong]

I constantly hear Christians point out how everything is just so perfectly designed that it demands a creator.

But when scientists look out to space, they see 99.9% of planets and conditions that are hazardous and impermissible to life. Why would a perfect designer create such a toxic universe?

When anthropologists look at the past and look at our ancient human ancestors that are hundreds of thousands to millions of years old they see dramatic physical changes from braincase sizes to the way humans walk. Why are all these changes neccessary if a perfect designer was behind it all?

The universe need to be this size in order for stars to form, die, and explode, so that matter necessary for life can form. When saying that something is designed, it's also important to know what it was designed for because God could also have other motivations for making the universe this large. For instance, if life was designed to adapt, then various features are instances of adaptability rather examples of something that was specifically designed. Without known precisely what something was designed for, it's hard to judge how well it was designed.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

The universe need to be this size in order for stars to form, die, and explode, so that matter necessary for life can form. When saying that something is designed, it's also important to know what it was designed for because God could also have other motivations for making the universe this large. For instance, if life was designed to adapt, then various features are instances of adaptability rather examples of something that was specifically designed. Without known precisely what something was designed for, it's hard to judge how well it was designed.

When we examine what we do have by way of effects from the Creation event (our reality today) , we can get a very accurate idea of what the First Cause had to be ; The First Cause must be self existent, timeless, nonspatial, immaterial since the First Cause created time, space, and matter and he is without limits and is infinite . The first cause of anything that becomes finite, must be infinite or outside of what is created much like a Painter is to his Painting. The First Cause would have to unimaginably powerful to create the entire Universe out of nothing and supremely intelligent to design the Universe with incredible precision . The Cause would have to be personal in order to choose to convert a state of nothingness into the time-space-material universe, for, an impersonal force has no ability to make choices. These characteristics of the First Cause are exactly the characteristics ascribe to God and they are NOT someones religion or subjective experience...rather they are drawn from the scientific evidence which IS our reality.

 

[Hospes]

I constantly hear Christians point out how everything is just so perfectly designed that it demands a creator.

But when scientists look out to space, they see 99.9% of planets and conditions that are hazardous and impermissible to life. Why would a perfect designer create such a toxic universe?

When anthropologists look at the past and look at our ancient human ancestors that are hundreds of thousands to millions of years old they see dramatic physical changes from braincase sizes to the way humans walk. Why are all these changes neccessary if a perfect designer was behind it all?

How dramatically sad. To stare into the night sky and see a toxic universe and not sense the marvel of Infinity. To stand on the edge of Grand Canyon and see no more than a drainage. To look at the intricacy of a snap dragon and not feel the wonder of Beauty. To get a glimpse of the dance performed in the human immune system and see no more than the culmination of random mutation. To live life and not know the Poetry of the universe. How dramatically sad.

 

[aiki]

I constantly hear Christians point out how everything is just so perfectly designed that it demands a creator.

But when scientists look out to space, they see 99.9% of planets and conditions that are hazardous and impermissible to life. Why would a perfect designer create such a toxic universe?

When anthropologists look at the past and look at our ancient human ancestors that are hundreds of thousands to millions of years old they see dramatic physical changes from braincase sizes to the way humans walk. Why are all these changes neccessary if a perfect designer was behind it all?

I don't know that Christians say that everything is perfectly designed. In fact, the message of Scripture is that humans are broken and God's Creation is corrupted. In any case, perfection in design is not necessary to positing a Creator.

Why must God create a universe that supports life in every corner of its expanse? It seems plain to me that God made the universe as He did because He wanted to. We can muse over why, but any theories we might construct are impossible to confirm.

I don't believe those fossils held up as "ancestors" to humans are any such thing. As you point out, the physical differences between modern humans and these supposed "ancestors" are enormous and thus should be regarded as an obvious indication that they are not true ancestors of human beings. In any case, a perfect designer is not obliged to be perfect in every design he might make.

Selah.

 

[dcalling]

I constantly hear Christians point out how everything is just so perfectly designed that it demands a creator.
But when scientists look out to space, they see 99.9% of planets and conditions that are hazardous and impermissible to life. Why would a perfect designer create such a toxic universe?

There is a Bible passage that says God made it clear so that there is no denying of him. One of the scientist at NASA actually found that the earth is so perfectly positioned (a mathematical impossible) that made earth itself is evidence of existence of a creator.

When anthropologists look at the past and look at our ancient human ancestors that are hundreds of thousands to millions of years old they see dramatic physical changes from braincase sizes to the way humans walk. Why are all these changes neccessary if a perfect designer was behind it all?

I doubt the Bible ever said God is a perfect designer. God is the creator, and from all the items, it is almost like an engineer creating things for fun.

 

[Noxot]

I constantly hear Christians point out how everything is just so perfectly designed that it demands a creator.

But when scientists look out to space, they see 99.9% of planets and conditions that are hazardous and impermissible to life. Why would a perfect designer create such a toxic universe?

When anthropologists look at the past and look at our ancient human ancestors that are hundreds of thousands to millions of years old they see dramatic physical changes from braincase sizes to the way humans walk. Why are all these changes neccessary if a perfect designer was behind it all?

ongoing creative activities. God likes to watch his seeds become plants. look at the smallest fabrics of our universe and you see it is a beautiful language and from that language came the diversity of our universe as it now is. who ever said that Gods plan was for this universe to be full of biological life? maybe it was and maybe it was not. i'm sure there are lots of different kinds of happenings in this universe and I find it a beautiful thing that such diversity can be, such as the fact that stars explode and destroy planets and yet still there are so many different kinds of life forms on our tiny home called earth. such diversity is but from one "habitual" planet and what beauty it is that it keeps transforming.

and what a very interesting game that we humans are, we who have intelligence past the other animals. it adds a completely other level to this universe and to our world even though we are still animals. dunno how long this experiment or game will last but it was surly just another perfection of beauty of the kingdom of heaven. have you not seen the beauty of a painting that might not have been drawn 'perfectly'? and yet how beautiful it still is. how beautiful it is when out of what seems to be "death" there comes out "life". I think that one of the most beautiful things are human beings and what they become. a personality is absolutely unrepeatable. something that is unique, to me, seems far greater than something that is only 'perfect'. and I shall go on to perfection as well, yeah, my very own perfection. what an amazing thing!

God is far beyond any kind of definition of "perfection". if our souls truly do matter to him and he is real then maybe he will take us up on our offer about creating a universe that is ordered in the way you desire it to be. surly there is already such a place. surly God does lots of things.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I constantly hear Christians point out how everything is just so perfectly designed that it demands a creator.

But when scientists look out to space, they see 99.9% of planets and conditions that are hazardous and impermissible to life. Why would a perfect designer create such a toxic universe?

Why would whether 99.9% of planets don't have conditions for life to form matter? God does not have to create a perfect universe by 'human standards'. Until 40 years ago no one really even knew what the other planets were like. However, 1000 years ago, the Mayans built an entire calendar around the stars, alignments and planets, so there is a method to whatever God has created.

I think that is a really short-sighted opinion. Man has always tried to 'make' God about their desires or their understanding. God just doesn't roll that way. He has the BIG plan.

 

[ToBeLoved]

..

 

[alexiscurious]

It isn't perfect, but it is sufficient. Perfection is completeness, but there is something missing, the one thing that should not have been touched was taken from the garden. That is as we know too well, Jehovah's anointed Messiah.

I thought an apple was taken, not a Messiah.

Have a think of this illustration: we know humans can build castles and cars, computers and submarines. We know that some people amass fortunes in their own lifetime to acquire all of these tools. Yet, if you take a man and place him in a forest with his bare hands, how is he going to build his house? I suggest that he will find tools, and he will use tools to make other tools. This is exactly the way that humans have developed the technology of the present day. So in just the same way as a human cannot mill trees without first building a tree mill, it is entirely conceivable that God too would need to develop the human over time. This is of course assuming the scenario of evolution from a primordial soup as you have loaded into the question. We know that contradicts another valid reading of the Genesis story of human origins that does not allow for evolution. When discussing that case though, you would need to ask a different question.

But God isn't equivalent to a human with bare hands. He has the most advanced tools available to any being in the universe. I thought he could spit things into existence with just words. So it wouldn't make any sense for him to develop humans over time when he could just do it all at once.

 

[alexiscurious]

I don't know that Christians say that everything is perfectly designed. In fact, the message of Scripture is that humans are broken and God's Creation is corrupted. In any case, perfection in design is not necessary to positing a Creator.

Well, that is what I tend to hear. Christians are fond of this complexity/design of the universe argument in proving the existence of a creator.

Why must God create a universe that supports life in every corner of its expanse? It seems plain to me that God made the universe as He did because He wanted to. We can muse over why, but any theories we might construct are impossible to confirm.

So he wanted to design the floods that drown life, the earthquakes that destroy human civilization, and the diseases that kill by the millions. Yikes. I think it was Neil DeGrasse Tyson that said he doesn't believe in God because of all the ways the universe is trying to kill us. I don't think it's hard to imagine why one would question the existence of a designer after seeing these things.

Also, I just found this ironic:
Isaiah 45:18: For thus saith Jehovah that created the heavens, the God that formed the earth and made it, that established it and created it not a waste, that formed it to be inhabited: I am Jehovah; and there is none else.

I don't believe those fossils held up as "ancestors" to humans are any such thing. As you point out, the physical differences between modern humans and these supposed "ancestors" are enormous and thus should be regarded as an obvious indication that they are not true ancestors of human beings. In any case, a perfect designer is not obliged to be perfect in every design he might make.

Well, anthropologists do. And they have made an effort to teach this in every classroom and to every student that goes to a public school. It might be important.

 

[alexiscurious]

I think that is a really short-sighted opinion. Man has always tried to 'make' God about their desires or their understanding. God just doesn't roll that way. He has the BIG plan.

Ironic how this plan is so big but none of us can see it.

 

[oi_antz]

I thought an apple was taken, not a Messiah.

I am drawing on parallel meanings. You are right a fruit was taken that was forbidden, but you are wrong that a Messiah was not taken. The taking out of the Messiah is the eventual culmination of the taking of the forbidden fruit. If you allow The Holy Spirit to coach you, you will gain that understanding at some stage.

But God isn't equivalent to a human with bare hands. He has the most advanced tools available to any being in the universe. I thought he could spit things into existence with just words. So it wouldn't make any sense for him to develop humans over time when he could just do it all at once.

"So it wouldn't make any sense" - I reckon this is probably wrong.

 

[alexiscurious]

I am drawing on parallel meanings. You are right a fruit was taken that was forbidden, but you are wrong that a Messiah was not taken. The taking out of the Messiah is the eventual culmination of the taking of the forbidden fruit. If you allow The Holy Spirit to coach you, you will gain that understanding at some stage.

"So it wouldn't make any sense" - I reckon this is probably wrong.

Care to explain why you think a perfect designer would develop humans over millions of years instead of all at once?

And I'm very confused at your references to the garden and a forbidden fruit being taken if you don't take Genesis literally. You believe humans were developed over time not all at once like in the Genesis story. So why are you mentioning specific events in Genesis as if they actually happened?

 

[oi_antz]

none of us can see it.

This is a bit misleading. Psalms 25:14 demonstrates that He shares His plans with His friends, and you can see too in prophecy of the Old Testament, He has been sharing His plans with people for a long time. Though, who is really able to know the fullness of His plan? Whose mind is big enough to comprehend it, and who is wise enough to use the information properly?

 

[alexiscurious]

This is a bit misleading. Psalms 25:14 demonstrates that He shares His plans with His friends, and you can see too in prophecy of the Old Testament, He has been sharing His plans with people for a long time. Though, who is really able to know the fullness of His plan? Whose mind is big enough to comprehend it, and who is wise enough to use the information properly?

How am I being misleading? You just told me that we are too incompetent to understand his plan.

 

[oi_antz]

Care to explain why you think a perfect designer would develop humans over millions of years instead of all at once?

That is how it happens according to evolutionary theory: lots of small gradual mutations. Though I am sure you understand evolution better than I do.

And I'm very confused at your references to the garden and a forbidden fruit being taken if you don't take Genesis literally.

I do take it literally sometimes. It does not need to be taken literally to gain that understanding though.

You believe humans were developed over time not all at once like in the Genesis story.

Rarely I will believe that. More often I will believe literal seven day creationism.

So why are you mentioning specific events in Genesis as if they actually happened?

I only look at the truth that I can gain from the Genesis story, and truth can be gained whether reading it as literal seven day creationism or figurative seven day creationism as per theistic evolution. The truth is that one day Adam and Eve began to learn about good and evil, whether it was a literal fruit and serpent or not. That has produced covetousness of the kingdom of God, and God's sending of messengers to speak against the corrupt godless rulers, eventually culminating in the one who was born of divine seed and represented Him in the flesh. We know that His anointed, rightful place was stolen from Him.

 

[oi_antz]

How am I being misleading? You just told me that we are too incompetent to understand his plan.

We can see His plan, but we can only see what we are capable of seeing.