Probability of Origin of Life by Chance just went way UP.

[Smidlee]

All matter is code.

No it's not.

 

[Loudmouth]

No it's not.

Why not?

 

[Smidlee]

Why not?

A code of itself has no meaning. A code (informational code) can ride on matter or/ and energy.

 

[Loudmouth]

A code of itself has no meaning. A code (informational code) can ride on matter or/ and energy.

So why doesn't this apply to H2O?

 

[Smidlee]

So why doesn't this apply to H2O?

If you trying to say the universe is created by the Word of God I would agree but I know you don't claimed that. A informational code can't be just the laws of physics or it's no longer can contain information other that itself. A radio wave that is caused naturally is nothing but noise but a FM station send information by producing a wave riding on another wave.

A pile of rocks line up to spell "I Love You" contains information besides the rocks themselves. I'm surprise I have to explain this to you.

 

[Loudmouth]

If you trying to say the universe is created by the Word of God I would agree but I know you don't claimed that.

What I am saying is that DNA is no different than any other matter when it comes to having code. So I am wondering why you are saying that DNA is designed when a rock is not?

A informational code can't be just the laws of physics or it's no longer can contain information other that itself.

So what functions does DNA perform that aren't just the laws of physics?

A radio wave that is cause natural is nothing but noise but a FM station send information by producing a wave ride on another wave.

Radio waves from distant stars contain code and information as well. There is a whole field that studies that code and information. It's called astronomy.

"Spectra, Star's Chemical Bar Code, spectrograph, spectroscopy:

Starlight contains plenty of useful information, but astronomers have to decode it. In a technique known as spectroscopy, a telescope equipped with a spectrograph splits starlight into a rainbow spectrum of different wavelengths. The dark lines that appear along the spectrum, known as absorption lines, represent how much starlight was absorbed by different chemical elements in the star's outer atmosphere. The thinner the line, the less abundant the element. Below, arrows indicate absorption lines for iron and other heavy elements in the sun and two stars in dwarf galaxies that orbit the Milky Way. The dwarf galaxy stars have much weaker absorption lines and therefore smaller portions of heavy elements than our relatively young sun, which makes sense because dwarf galaxies formed long before the sun when the heavier elements were still scarce."
http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-chemical-bar-code-spectrograph-spectroscopy/

Scientists also say that stars have codes.

 

[Smidlee]

What I am saying is that DNA is no different than any other matter when it comes to having code. So I am wondering why you are saying that DNA is designed when a rock is not?



So what functions does DNA perform that aren't just the laws of physics?

A informational code can't be guided just by the law of physics or it wouldn't contain any information.

Radio waves from distant stars contain code and information as well. There is a whole field that studies that code and information. It's called astronomy.

SETI has been looking for an informational code for years as this would be evidence of alien life.

"Spectra, Star's Chemical Bar Code, spectrograph, spectroscopy:

Starlight contains plenty of useful information, but astronomers have to decode it. In a technique known as spectroscopy, a telescope equipped with a spectrograph splits starlight into a rainbow spectrum of different wavelengths. The dark lines that appear along the spectrum, known as absorption lines, represent how much starlight was absorbed by different chemical elements in the star's outer atmosphere. The thinner the line, the less abundant the element. Below, arrows indicate absorption lines for iron and other heavy elements in the sun and two stars in dwarf galaxies that orbit the Milky Way. The dwarf galaxy stars have much weaker absorption lines and therefore smaller portions of heavy elements than our relatively young sun, which makes sense because dwarf galaxies formed long before the sun when the heavier elements were still scarce."
http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-chemical-bar-code-spectrograph-spectroscopy/

Scientists also say that stars have codes.

There are many codes including "the code of conduct". I'm not trying to talk over your head but I'm referring to a informational code that rides on matter or/and energy. A code on a DVD is an informational code that can't be explained by the chemistry of the DVD.

 

[Loudmouth]

A informational code can't be guided just by the law of physics or it wouldn't contain any information.

What information in DNA is not guided by the laws of physics?

SETI has been looking for an informational code for years as this would be evidence of alien life.

SETI has been looking for a narrowband spectra. They have been looking for code in a sea of code.

There are many codes including "the code of conduct". I'm not trying to talk over you head but I'm referring to a informational code that rides on matter or/and energy.

So how does DNA have that code?

 

[Smidlee]

What information in DNA is not guided by the laws of physics?

A DVD player is guided by the laws of physics but that doesn't explain the data on the DVD.

SETI has been looking for a narrowband spectra. They have been looking for code in a sea of code.



So how does DNA have that code?

DNA of itself doesn't absolutely nothing just like a DVD by itself. The code is not the DNA nor DVD itself. The informational code rides on the matter.

 

[Loudmouth]

A DVD player is guided by the laws of physics but that doesn't explain the data on the DVD.

I will ask again. Please try to answer this time.

What information in DNA is not guided by the laws of physics?

DNA of itself doesn't absolutely nothing just like a DVD by itself. The code is not the DNA nor DVD itself. The informational code rides on the matter.

Show it to me.

 

[Smidlee]

I will ask again. Please try to answer this time.

What information in DNA is not guided by the laws of physics?

Information guided by the laws of physics is not the same subject as the cause of informational code. I write a love letter to my wife I don't claim my love letter breaks the laws of physics. The informational code in my letter is more than just ink and paper.

Show it to me.

I try to make it as simple as I know how. I don't know how I could make it more plain.

 

[Loudmouth]

Information guided by the laws of physics is not the same subject as the cause of informational code. I write a love letter to my wife I don't claim my love letter breaks the laws of physics. The informational code in my letter is more than just ink and paper. I try to make it as simple as I know how. I don't know how I could make it more plain.

You could make it plain by pointing to these features in DNA. Is there a love letter in English in the human genome?

 

[Smidlee]

You could make it plain by pointing to these features in DNA. Is there a love letter in English in the human genome?

Informational codes doesn't have to be in "English" code.

 

[The Cadet]

It's weird. It's like one moment you get it:

Notice "2H2 + O2 ----> 2H2O" is a code that represent matter that is not a code. Just like "apple" is a code that represent something that is red and grows on trees.

And then the next, you don't:

DNA is a digital code as even evolutionary scientist admits that much.

No, the "code" is an abstraction. It models the existing chemistry. It is not the chemistry itself! Calling a certain codon AGT or GCA is an abstraction. It's a code that represents matter that is not a code. One moment you understand the concept, the next, you don't. Maybe drunk Cadet is confused, I dunno.

 

[KimT]

With God, all things are possible. His ways are higher than our ways.

 

[Givemeareason]

Pareidolia. We're hardwired to see agency, particularly anthropomorphic agency, even where there is none.

Yes, as some like to say, "Believing is Seeing". That's why we can't see it.

 

[Givemeareason]

And I did. Your lack of evidence that shows the design is an illusion shows you are incapable of doing so and now you have to bow out somewhat ungraciously to save face. It is very clear.

I don't understand old earth creationism. Since it is still creationism it is still based on a literal bible and Genesis in particular. That means you can't start reinterpreting the bible to say that a day is actually millions of years. That is not a literal interpretation. Neither can you believe in a big bang. Genesis clearly states God first created heaven (where God resides) and earth. Everything else was created later. To say otherwise again means that Genesis and the Bible are not to be taken literally. So either the Bible is the literal inspired word of God as the YECS believe or the Bible is not. You can't have it both ways. To try to do that in the attempt to reconcile with science, you will end up with something that is neither biblical nor science.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I don't understand old earth creationism. Since it is still creationism it is still based on a literal bible and Genesis in particular. That means you can't start reinterpreting the bible to say that a day is actually millions of years. That is not a literal interpretation. Neither can you believe in a big bang. Genesis clearly states God first created heaven (where God resides) and earth. Everything else was created later. To say otherwise again means that Genesis and the Bible are not to be taken literally. So either the Bible is the literal inspired word of God as the YECS believe or the Bible is not. You can't have it both ways. To try to do that in the attempt to reconcile with science, you will end up with something that is neither biblical nor science.

It is clearly stated in the Bible that time is different for God (He isn't inside of time), a day is a 24 hour period that the sun and moon are meant to determine days and night and the sun and moon were not created until later in Genesis so how would we interpret 24 hour days with them? It all works within a literal interpretation.

 

[Givemeareason]

It is clearly stated in the Bible that time is different for God (He isn't inside of time), a day is a 24 hour period that the sun and moon are meant to determine days and night and the sun and moon were not created until later in Genesis so how would we interpret 24 hour days with them? It all works within a literal interpretation.

Exactly, it all depends on interpretation. Literal means it says what it says. So you don't take Genesis literally then? Again if a day were millions of years it should have said that. There was no reason we should have to make that interpretation in order to make it fit.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Exactly, it all depends on interpretation. Literal means it says what it says. So you don't take Genesis literally then? Again if a day were millions of years it should have said that. There was no reason we should have to make that interpretation in order to make it fit.

Like I said you can't have 24 hour days without the sun and moon, so we know that it can't represent our 24 hour days that we have today. WE also know that It depends where you are in space how time passes. We don't know God's vantage point and thus don't know the time involved from that aspect.