So confused...

[Leevo]

Hey guys, I would like to share my story and hopefully get some help...

To start, I was never raised in church. I started attending a Non-Denominational Protestant church when I was 17 off and on. I was baptized there on 4/20/14, and then I stopped going there a couple weeks later. I am 19 now. I started to investigate the Roman Catholic Church over the next few months and was invited to RCIA by my cousin who had converted to Catholicism a few years back. However, halfway through I started looking at Orthodoxy and almost decided to quit RCIA but didn't and I was confirmed this year on the Easter Vigil into the RCC. However, I started to feel lost again and stopped attending mass within a couple of months. I watched the A.D. The Bible Continues show when it was on and it seemed to me that the apostles worshiped more like the Protestants do than the Catholic or Orthodox. Just seeing Peter preach so passionately in the show and give sermon like speeches made me think that maybe that was how they did things back then. I know the show's producers put a lot of research into the show. So I decided to go back to my old church and I have been attending the Non-Denominational Protestant church again for the last few weeks. However, here I am again, questioning. Maybe Orthodoxy is right, maybe Catholicism, maybe Protestantism. I am lost out here in the middle and can't seem to find where I fit. A lot has pushed me away from my Parish lately (like the priest criticizing Bible believing Christians for criticizing homosexual marriages). However, I still have my doubts about the Protestant church too. I go back and forth so much. I need help... I want to find the church that worships and holds onto the doctrines that the earliest churches did. The way the apostles would have believed and worshiped.

I disagree with a lot that the Pope has been saying as well. Also, I disagree that he has a divine right to authority over all bishops. I agree most with Orthodoxy on this one...

 

[RC1970]

You sound a lot like me. I wondered around for many years until I found R.C. Sproul and everything just clicked for me. Sproul is Reformed (Calvinist) and he is one of the best at explaining difficult concepts and is very consistently orthodox in his theology.

Just my opinion...

 

[graceandpeace]

(Delete)

 

[graceandpeace]

Hey guys, I would like to share my story and hopefully get some help...

To start, I was never raised in church. I started attending a Non-Denominational Protestant church when I was 17 off and on. I was baptized there on 4/20/14, and then I stopped going there a couple weeks later. I am 19 now. I started to investigate the Roman Catholic Church over the next few months and was invited to RCIA by my cousin who had converted to Catholicism a few years back. However, halfway through I started looking at Orthodoxy and almost decided to quit RCIA but didn't and I was confirmed this year on the Easter Vigil into the RCC. However, I started to feel lost again and stopped attending mass within a couple of months. I watched the A.D. The Bible Continues show when it was on and it seemed to me that the apostles worshiped more like the Protestants do than the Catholic or Orthodox. Just seeing Peter preach so passionately in the show and give sermon like speeches made me think that maybe that was how they did things back then. I know the show's producers put a lot of research into the show. So I decided to go back to my old church and I have been attending the Non-Denominational Protestant church again for the last few weeks. However, here I am again, questioning. Maybe Orthodoxy is right, maybe Catholicism, maybe Protestantism. I am lost out here in the middle and can't seem to find where I fit. A lot has pushed me away from my Parish lately (like the priest criticizing Bible believing Christians for criticizing homosexual marriages). However, I still have my doubts about the Protestant church too. I go back and forth so much. I need help... I want to find the church that worships and holds onto the doctrines that the earliest churches did. The way the apostles would have believed and worshiped.

I disagree with a lot that the Pope has been saying as well. Also, I disagree that he has a divine right to authority over all bishops. I agree most with Orthodoxy on this one...

I understand.

First, it's okay to step back for a little while & take a breath. At 19, you're still young & trying to figure out who you are. The decision-making center in your brain is not fully mature until around 25 years old, on average. That's not to suggest you shouldn't attend church or that you should stop seeking, but rather that you're likely to experience some tension & will probably shift in beliefs, opinions, etc over the next few years as you grow. It's normal, so I would not overly burden yourself.

So with that in mind, I would suggest picking up a Christian history book or two, & researching the various denominations out there. Every Christian church is trying to understand the Bible, tradition, etc today, though obviously Christians don't always come to the same conclusions, even when presented with similar information. That doesn't necessarily mean one church is exactly "right" while another is absolutely "wrong," but that honest, faithful seeking can lead to different paths.

Both Orthodoxy & Roman Catholicism claim to be the "one true church," & will point to historical reasons & argue why one is right & the other is wrong about that claim. While I consider both churches apostolic, I personally don't accept their competing claims - though a Protestant TV show about the Bible is not what swayed me, & I again would suggest research for your own part.

For my own journey, I came from a Methodist/Wesleyan oriented church background to begin my seeking. I can not accept the Roman church's position on a number of issues, such as the universal jurisdiction of the Pope & especially the church's views on sexuality & contraceptives. I did seriously consider Orthodoxy, but I ultimately ran into a few similar problems with their views. My options narrowed to Lutheranism & Anglicanism. To make a long story short, it was the emphasis on weekly Eucharist, the liturgy & prayer book, the equality of persons, & even more that lead me to my current home in the Episcopal Church (the U.S. member of the Anglican Communion).

So, just take a breath, take your time, & you will eventually figure out.

 

[Leevo]

I understand.

First, it's okay to step back for a little while & take a breath. At 19, you're still young & trying to figure out who you are. The decision-making center in your brain is not fully mature until around 25 years old, on average. That's not to suggest you shouldn't attend church or that you should stop seeking, but rather that you're likely to experience some tension & will probably shift in beliefs, opinions, etc over the next few years as you grow. It's normal, so I would not overly burden yourself.

So with that in mind, I would suggest picking up a Christian history book or two, & researching the various denominations out there. Every Christian church is trying to understand the Bible, tradition, etc today, though obviously Christians don't always come to the same conclusions, even when presented with similar information. That doesn't necessarily mean one church is exactly "right" while another is absolutely "wrong," but that honest, faithful seeking can lead to different paths.

Both Orthodoxy & Roman Catholicism claim to be the "one true church," & will point to historical reasons & argue why one is right & the other is wrong about that claim. While I consider both churches apostolic, I personally don't accept their competing claims - though a Protestant TV show about the Bible is not what swayed me, & I again would suggest research for your own part.

For my own journey, I came from a Methodist/Wesleyan oriented church background to begin my seeking. I can not accept the Roman church's position on a number of issues, such as the universal jurisdiction of the Pope & especially the church's views on sexuality & contraceptives. I did seriously consider Orthodoxy, but I ultimately ran into a few similar problems with their views. My options narrowed to Lutheranism & Anglicanism. To make a long story short, it was the emphasis on weekly Eucharist, the liturgy & prayer book, the equality of persons, & even more that lead me to my current home in the Episcopal Church (the U.S. member of the Anglican Communion).

So, just take a breath, take your time, & you will eventually figure out.

Thanks for your reply. I am unsure as where I stand on the Pope because there is good arguments on both sides...

I am not searching for a "one true church" but rather the one that is closest to the early church. I want to find out how they worshiped and what they did. From the AD show, I gather that they had more of a sermon based, protestant style of worship. The show is based on the book of Acts as well. Lutheranism could be a good one for me, but I am not sure yet. I need to find out which worship style the early church had (liturgical or sermon-based) and go from there. Sadly, I have to cut the Episcopal Church from my considerations because of their willingness to marry homosexual couples. I have been trying to study early church history but haven't had much luck...

 

[ob77]

Hey guys, I would like to share my story and hopefully get some help...

To start, I was never raised in church. I started attending a Non-Denominational Protestant church when I was 17 off and on. I was baptized there on 4/20/14, and then I stopped going there a couple weeks later. I am 19 now. I started to investigate the Roman Catholic Church over the next few months and was invited to RCIA by my cousin who had converted to Catholicism a few years back. However, halfway through I started looking at Orthodoxy and almost decided to quit RCIA but didn't and I was confirmed this year on the Easter Vigil into the RCC. However, I started to feel lost again and stopped attending mass within a couple of months. I watched the A.D. The Bible Continues show when it was on and it seemed to me that the apostles worshiped more like the Protestants do than the Catholic or Orthodox. Just seeing Peter preach so passionately in the show and give sermon like speeches made me think that maybe that was how they did things back then. I know the show's producers put a lot of research into the show. So I decided to go back to my old church and I have been attending the Non-Denominational Protestant church again for the last few weeks. However, here I am again, questioning. Maybe Orthodoxy is right, maybe Catholicism, maybe Protestantism. I am lost out here in the middle and can't seem to find where I fit. A lot has pushed me away from my Parish lately (like the priest criticizing Bible believing Christians for criticizing homosexual marriages). However, I still have my doubts about the Protestant church too. I go back and forth so much. I need help... I want to find the church that worships and holds onto the doctrines that the earliest churches did. The way the apostles would have believed and worshiped.

I disagree with a lot that the Pope has been saying as well. Also, I disagree that he has a divine right to authority over all bishops. I agree most with Orthodoxy on this one...

Good for you. The pope is simply a man, a man with an agenda. He does not represent Christ, and to be fair, no one . save a very few do. No churches that I know of, teach what the bible actually says. I do not attend any church anymore, since churches have become "anything goes" clubs. Upon asking specific questions on bible topics to clergymen or women, I was greeted by looks of confusion and not knowing the answer. They know nothing about the bible other than moralizing talking points. Their education is in churchism........what brings in the money, and some may have a rudimentary knowledge of psycho-babble. Do as Ezekiel did and knock the dust off your shoes, study the word of God and show your self approved as a student of the word. Good luck, buddy.

 

[Leevo]

Good for you. The pope is simply a man, a man with an agenda. He does not represent Christ, and to be fair, no one . save a very few do. No churches that I know of, teach what the bible actually says. I do not attend any church anymore, since churches have become "anything goes" clubs. Upon asking specific questions on bible topics to clergymen or women, I was greeted by looks of confusion and not knowing the answer. They know nothing about the bible other than moralizing talking points. Their education is in churchism........what brings in the money, and some may have a rudimentary knowledge of psycho-babble. Do as Ezekiel did and knock the dust off your shoes, study the word of God and show your self approved as a student of the word. Good luck, buddy.

Hey man thanks for your reply. I think the only way I can find my answer is to do what you said. Study the word.

 

[Dialogist]

No churches that I know of, teach what the bible actually says

I would be curious if you ever looked at the Orthodox Church and if so what errors you felt you saw being made in interpreting the Bible.

Thanks.

 

[Dialogist]

I want to find the church that worships and holds onto the doctrines that the earliest churches did. The way the apostles would have believed and worshiped

I haven't seen any Orthodox chime in, so I thought I would offer whatever poor opinions I am able.

Given that you yourself brought up the Orthodox Church as one of the churches you are considering, could you describe your experience there and what, if anything, you found to be a stumbling block?

Thank you.

 

[Leevo]

I would be curious if you ever looked at the Orthodox Church and if so what errors you felt you saw being made in interpreting the Bible.

Thanks.

I have indeed looked at it. I admit not quite as much as the Protestant ones and RCC though. I haven't actually found any errors made in interpreting the Bible there.

I haven't seen any Orthodox chime in, so I thought I would offer whatever poor opinions I am able.

Given that you yourself brought up the Orthodox Church as one of the churches you are considering, could you describe your experience there and what, if anything, you found to be a stumbling block?

Thank you.

I have never actually attended one. The nearest one is 50 minutes from my house which causes a bit of an issue. The only one issue I have is whether or not I disagree with the Pope deserving authority or not. I know I said in an earlier reply in this forum that I disagree that he should, but now I am not so sure. I bounce around on my theology quite often and it comes down to how I view the early church. I want to know what the earliest Christians thought on this issue from an objective point of view. I also have trouble figuring out if the early church was liturgical or not. If I can find evidence that it was, then my choices would be narrowed to either the EOC or RCC.

 

[Dialogist]

I have indeed looked at it. I admit not quite as much as the Protestant ones and RCC though. I haven't actually found any errors made in interpreting the Bible there.





I have never actually attended one. The nearest one is 50 minutes from my house which causes a bit of an issue. The only one issue I have is whether or not I disagree with the Pope deserving authority or not. I know I said in an earlier reply in this forum that I disagree that he should, but now I am not so sure. I bounce around on my theology quite often and it comes down to how I view the early church. I want to know what the earliest Christians thought on this issue from an objective point of view. I also have trouble figuring out if the early church was liturgical or not. If I can find evidence that it was, then my choices would be narrowed to either the EOC or RCC.

I fully understand about attending. The churches are quite spread out. Since Orthodoxy is hard for many people, the communities are small. We drive 40 minutes to the parish we attend, but I know people who drive 90 minutes to and from Liturgy every Sunday.

I think lots of Orthodox on here could offers all sorts of links, but could I humbly suggest you perhaps listen to a few episodes in the Fr. Thomas Hopko's "The Bishops" podcasts? His first few episodes are an overview of very early Church history. All of the material he covers is scattered throughout Christendom, but he pulls everything together in one place and gives suggestions for further study. Frankly, I find listening easier than reading. And Fr. Tom is the Dean Emeritus of Dogmatic Theology at St. Vladimir's Orthodox Seminary and has a very informative, personal way about him.

Here are the ones that I think cover what you indicated you are interested in:

New Testament and Early Church Model

Post Apostolic Model

You will probably find more that you like there.

Last year he put out a two part podcast on what he felt would have to happen for the Roman Catholic Church to be reconciled with the Orthodox Church. It may touch on some of the papal primacy issues that interest you:

What Does Rome Need To Do? - Part 1

What Does Rome Need To Do? - Part 2

There really is no substitute, though, for attending a few Orthodox services and try to speak with the clergy. I found it was helpful to exchange a few emails with the priest in charge first. You will find him very welcoming. Being Orthodox involves the whole person and not just the mind, so you really can't get a complete feel for the Church without attending the services and interacting with clergy.

May God keep you in your journey!

 

[Arcangl86]

While likely entertaining, the simple fact of the matter is that you should rely on a TV show to determine how the early church worshiped. Since you are looking at liturgical churches, also look at Confessional Lutheranism like the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod or Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. I would also look at the conservative Anglican churches such as the Anglican Church of North America.

 

[Leevo]

While likely entertaining, the simple fact of the matter is that you should rely on a TV show to determine how the early church worshiped. Since you are looking at liturgical churches, also look at Confessional Lutheranism like the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod or Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. I would also look at the conservative Anglican churches such as the Anglican Church of North America.

I have indeed looked at the Lutheran church. For many reasons actually. They remind me much of the RCC being one. Also, the fact that they have doctrines that I agree with like the RCC. I want to devote my life to church leadership, but I need to find a church to do that in. The Lutheran church, excluding the ELCA (too liberal), is a great option for me, but there is only one LCMS church near me sadly. They allow their priests to marry, which is a must for a church for me. I want to lead, but I feel called to marriage as well. The RCC will not allow that. They are also liturgical, which is almost a guaranteed must for me at this point, because I have seen quite a significant amount of evidence that the early church was indeed liturgical...

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I have indeed looked at the Lutheran church. For many reasons actually. They remind me much of the RCC being one. Also, the fact that they have doctrines that I agree with like the RCC. I want to devote my life to church leadership, but I need to find a church to do that in. The Lutheran church, excluding the ELCA (too liberal), is a great option for me, but there is only one LCMS church near me sadly. They allow their priests to marry, which is a must for a church for me. I want to lead, but I feel called to marriage as well. The RCC will not allow that. They are also liturgical, which is almost a guaranteed must for me at this point, because I have seen quite a significant amount of evidence that the early church was indeed liturgical...

Leevo, it sounds to me like you are not so much worried about being part of the "right" Church, but you may be more concerned about being part of the wrong Chruch. I'm a Confessional Lutheran (LCC in fellowship with the LCMS) and I'm in the right place; but I also know and my Chruch teaches that while we have differences, I admire much in the Catholic Church and much in the EO Chruch as well. All three of our Churches preach the Gospel (some protestants would argue that) and administer the Sacraments. We all believe the Word of our Lord that there is Grace conveyed in the sacraments and that the Eucharist is indeed Christ's very body and blood. You are right, not only was the Early Church liturgical; it is a pattern of worship illustrated in The Revelation of St. John, and it is our heritage from Jewish tradition.

I don't want to belittle what you are going through, but you do need to relax and let the Holy Spirit guide you; the Holy Spirit will not lead you astray.

God bless you.

 

[Leevo]

Leevo, it sounds to me like you are not so much worried about being part of the "right" Church, but you may be more concerned about being part of the wrong Chruch. I'm a Confessional Lutheran (LCC in fellowship with the LCMS) and I'm in the right place; but I also know and my Chruch teaches that while we have differences, I admire much in the Catholic Church and much in the EO Chruch as well. All three of our Churches preach the Gospel (some protestants would argue that) and administer the Sacraments. We all believe the Word of our Lord that there is Grace conveyed in the sacraments and that the Eucharist is indeed Christ's very body and blood. You are right, not only was the Early Church liturgical; it is a pattern of worship illustrated in The Revelation of St. John, and it is our heritage from Jewish tradition.

I don't want to belittle what you are going through, but you do need to relax and let the Holy Spirit guide you; the Holy Spirit will not lead you astray.

God bless you.

Amen brother. You pinned it. I am going to look a lot more at the LCMS and see what their about.

 

[Albion]

Leevo,
Although I belong to a liturgical church that values its ancient origins, I feel (from reading your comments in the OP) that a mildly liturgical church might be the closest to what you are seeking. I also think you have to be careful when navigating these waters because seemingly small differences can mean a lot. I'm wondering about the Reformed Episcopal Church, the Free Methodist Church, or perhaps even one of the Presbyterian churches (other than the Presbyterian Church USA). But none of those operates on the basis of independent congregations. All have some sort of hierarchical structure. Even then, there is going to be a variance from one congregation to another, so it's hard to make suggestions like this and be categorical about it.

 

[Leevo]

Leevo,
Although I belong to a liturgical church that values its ancient origins, I feel (from reading your comments in the OP) that a mildly liturgical church might be the closest to what you are seeking. I also think you have to be careful when navigating these waters because seemingly small differences can mean a lot. I'm wondering about the Reformed Episcopal Church, the Free Methodist Church, or perhaps even one of the Presbyterian churches (other than the Presbyterian Church USA). But none of those operates on the basis of independent congregations. All have some sort of hierarchical structure. Even then, there is going to be a variance from one congregation to another, so it's hard to make suggestions like this and be categorical about it.

Yea, I am currently researching the Lutheran church Missouri Synod, United Methodist, and Presbyterian church's...

 

[madera23]

[QUOis withhhE="Leevo, post: 68345881, member: 374339"]Hey guys, I would like to share my story and hopefully get some help...

To start, I was never raised in church. I started attending a Nis n-Denominational Protestant church when I was 17 off and on. I was baptized there on 4/20/14, and then I stopped going there a couple weeks later. I am 19 now. I started to investigate the Roman Catholic Church over the next few months and was invited to RCIA by my cousin who had converted to Catholicism a few years back. However, halfway through I started looking at Orthodoxy and almost decided to quit RCIA but didn't and I was confirmed this year on the Easter Vigil into the RCC. However, I started to feel lost again and stopped attending mass within a couple of months. I watched the A.D. The Bible Continues show when it was on and it seemed to me that the apostles worshiped more like the Protestants do than the Catholic or Orthodox. Just seeing Peter preach so passionately in the show and give sermon like speeches made me think that maybe that was how they did things back then. I know the show's producers put a lot of research into the show. So I decided to go back to my old church and I have been attending the Non-Denominational Protestant church again for the last few weeks. However, here I am again, questioning. Maybe Orthodoxy is right, maybe Catholicism, maybe Protestantism. I am lost out here in the middle and can't seem to find where I fit. A lot has pushed me away from my Parish lately (like the priest criticizing Bible believing Christians for criticizing homosexual marriages). However, I still have my doubts about the Protestant church too. I go back and forth so much. I need help... I want to find the church that worships and holds onto the doctrines that the earliest churches did. The way the apostles would have believed and worshiped.

I disagree with a lot that the Pope has been saying as well. Also, I disagree that he has a divine right to authority over all bishops. I agree most with Orthodoxy on this one...[/QUOTE]

Leevo,
Although I belong to a liturgical church that values its ancient origins, I feel (from reading your comments in the OP) that a mildly liturgical church might be the closest to what you are seeking. I also think you have to be careful when navigating these waters because seemingly small differences can mean a lot. I'm wondering about the Reformed Episcopal Church, the Free Methodist Church, or perhaps even one of the Presbyterian churches (other than the Presbyterian Church USA). But none of those operates on the basis of independent congregations. All have some sort of hierarchical structure. Even then, there is going to be a variance from one congregation to another, so it's hard to make suggestions like this and be categorical about it.

God I

Hey guys, I would like to share my story and hopefully get some help...

To start, I was never raised in church. I started attending a Non-Denominational Protestant church when I was 17 off and on. I was baptized there on 4/20/14, and then I stopped going there a couple weeks later. I am 19 now. I started to investigate the Roman Catholic Church over the next few months and was invited to RCIA by my cousin who had converted to Catholicism a few years back. However, halfway through I started looking at Orthodoxy and almost decided to quit RCIA but didn't and I was confirmed this year on the Easter Vigil into the RCC. However, I started to feel lost again and stopped attending mass within a couple of months. I watched the A.D. The Bible Continues show when it was on and it seemed to me that the apostles worshiped more like the Protestants do than the Catholic or Orthodox. Just seeing Peter preach so passionately in the show and give sermon like speeches made me think that maybe that was how they did things back then. I know the show's producers put a lot of research into the show. So I decided to go back to my old church and I have been attending the Non-Denominational Protestant church again for the last few weeks. However, here I am again, questioning. Maybe Orthodoxy is right, maybe Catholicism, maybe Protestantism. I am lost out here in the middle and can't seem to find where I fit. A lot has pushed me away from my Parish lately (like the priest criticizing Bible believing Christians for criticizing homosexual marriages). However, I still have my doubts about the Protestant church too. I go back and forth so much. I need help... I want to find the church that worships and holds onto the doctrines that the earliest churches did. The way the apostles would have believed and worshiped.

I disagree with a lot that the Pope has been saying as well. Also, I disagree that he has a divine right to authority over all bishops. I agree most with Orthodoxy on this one...

Cancel

 

[Albion]

However, here I am again, questioning. Maybe Orthodoxy is right, maybe Catholicism, maybe Protestantism. I am lost out here in the middle and can't seem to find where I fit. A lot has pushed me away from my Parish lately (like the priest criticizing Bible believing Christians for criticizing homosexual marriages). However, I still have my doubts about the Protestant church too. I go back and forth so much. I need help... I want to find the church that worships and holds onto the doctrines that the earliest churches did. The way the apostles would have believed and worshiped.

Hi, Madera. You could take the advice that's been given here to Leevo and treat it as having been offered to you as well. After all, you two have similar goals.

However, you seem to be even more "torn" between the churches--Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant--so I'm thinking that you might do well to start a serious study of all the major churches and find out for yourself what the differences are. It doesn't take becoming a professor or theologian to learn the basic points.

The internet can be misleading, but every public library contains books that compare the churches and so do most bookstores. The study could very well focus your thinking and help you to decide on the right church home.

 

[madera23]

Hi, Madera. You could take the advice that's been given here to Leevo and treat it as having been offered to you as well. After all, you two have similar goals.

However, you seem to be even more "torn" between the churches--Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant--so I'm thinking that you might do well to start a serious study of all the major churches and find out for yourself what the differences are. It doesn't take becoming a professor or theologian to learn the basic points.

The internet can be misleading, but every public library contains books that compare the churches and so do most bookstores. The study could very well focus your thinking and help you to decide on the right church home.

You made a mistake, I do not go to any church. Where did you get that idea.
Madera