Why is Jesus the ????

[bugkiller]

It's morning here...and I'm still completely mesmerized by your hoppy frogs.
I blame my daughter....

Anyhow, I wonder if you realize...it was the Catholic church that changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday?
Now, I really don't care what day people choose to worship.
I just think you should know the truth about it.
If you don't think it was the Catholic church, ask them. They're quite proud of it.

It doesn't matter what is posted you will continue to believe that falsehood for some unknown reason. The RCC did no such thing.

bugkiller

 

[TheBarrd]

Ahh, well...I still think the frogs are cute.
However, I just became aware that there is someone in this thread that I have already ignored, and I see that emotions are running high...
So I think I'd rather take my chances with the concisions.

Goodnight, all!

 

[TheBarrd]

It doesn't matter what is posted you will continue to believe that falsehood for some unknown reason. The RCC did no such thing.

bugkiller

Actually, they did.
As I say, they are quite proud of it.
It's not a matter of what I believe, it is a matter of written history.
You need not take my word for it...Google it for yourself.

As I say, I am not SDA or any other brand of "Sabbath keeper"...so I really and truly have no ax to grind here. I am not nearly so emotional as I see you guys are...and all that anger is kind of off-putting.
Besides, as I said...I already have someone here on my ignore list....
And I'd rather not get involved in an argument that is as vicious as I see this one has become.

 

[bugkiller]

Interesting post.
Confusing...but interesting.
What I actually asked was which of the ten, other than the infamous fourth commandment, do you guys think are NOT binding on Christians.
So far, no one has answered me...nor do I really expect an answer, because the answer is fairly obvious, isn't it?

Yes...Jesus said "if you love me, keep my commandments". Can you tell me what His commandments are?
And again...yes, Jesus kept His Father's commandments. Now, if I am going to follow Jesus, shouldn't I do the same?

Isn't Jesus the Immanuel...that is God with us? Isn't He the very Incarnation of God? Doesn't He tell us that He and His Father are ONE?

So, anyway...I'm fairly open minded.
And I am not an SDA or any other brand of "Sabbath keeper", so if you thought I was here with an ax to grind, I seriously hate to disappoint you.
I am just very curious about your philosophy on this.

So, which of the Ten are NOT binding on Christians...other than the 4th one?

Well thanks for the nice comment about being interesting.

I asked you very plainly what he Commandments of Jesus' Father are. Will you please identify any one of them? Then we can proceed.

Yes I remember who you are and what you do.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Actually, they did.
As I say, they are quite proud of it.
It's not a matter of what I believe, it is a matter of written history.
You need not take my word for it...Google it for yourself.

As I say, I am not SDA or any other brand of "Sabbath keeper"...so I really and truly have no ax to grind here. I am not nearly so emotional as I see you guys are...and all that anger is kind of off-putting.
Besides, as I said...I already have someone here on my ignore list....
And I'd rather not get involved in an argument that is as vicious as I see this one has become.

Just exactly do you think they did this as you claim? Yes I am very aware of probably will quote for support. Please do it anyway. I may get shocked.

bugkiller

 

[TheBarrd]

Well thanks for the nice comment about being interesting.

I asked you very plainly what he Commandments of Jesus' Father are. Will you please identify any one of them? Then we can proceed.

Yes I remember who you are and what you do.

bugkiller

Who I am and what I do?
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that.
And I already posted the Fathers Commandments.
They are:

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s

I'm not sure what else you want me to say?

 

[Frogster]

I always supposed it was God's law written there.
What laws do you think are written on our hearts?

well now, in all fairness, you can on the thread, seemingly to engage the frog, and you posted Jer 31, as you asked presumptive accusational questions of me, so it is your turn to please back up your Jer 31 post, and tell me what laws are written. thanks!

 

[Frogster]

oWhich ones are binding for the Christian?

Is sin only violation of the law or the 10Cs?

Sin was before the law and the 10 Cs per Rom 5:13.

The law came because of transgression per Gal 3:19.

Same verse says the law had a limited jurisdiction. Besides LK 16:16 says the law was until John (the Baptist).

Jesus said you have heard it said ... Thou shalt not kill... then Jesus says but I say... Yup Jesus was teaching the law wasn't He? This phraseology occurs several times in that famous sermon.

Jesus said if you love Me keep My commandments in John 15:10. Jesus said He kept His Father's commandments in the same verse. If the 10 Cs are the commandments of Jesus what are the commandments He kept? They can't be the same. Yet we know for sure Jesus kept the 10 Cs.

bugkiller

exactly! Go bugster!

 

[TheBarrd]

Just exactly do you think they did this as you claim? Yes I am very aware of probably will quote for support. Please do it anyway. I may get shocked.

bugkiller

In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:

Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….
Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.
Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!
—Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.

In Catholic Christian Instructed,

Q. Has the [Catholic] church power to make any alterations in the commandments of God?
A. ...Instead of the seventh day, and other festivals appointed by the old law, the church has prescribed the Sundays and holy days to be set apart for God’s worship; and these we are now obliged to keep in consequence of God’s commandment, instead of the ancient Sabbath.
—The Catholic Christian Instructed in the Sacraments, Sacrifices, Ceremonies, and Observances of the Church By Way of Question and Answer, RT Rev. Dr. Challoner, p. 204.

In An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine,

Q. How prove you that the church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
A. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.
Q. How prove you that?
A. Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin; and by not keeping the rest [of the feasts] by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power.
–Rev. Henry Tuberville, D.D. (R.C.), (1833), page 58.

In A Doctrinal Catechism,
Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
–Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), p. 174.

In the Catechism of the Council of Trent,
The Church of God has thought it well to transfer the celebration and observance of the Sabbath to Sunday!
–p 402, second revised edition (English), 1937. (First published in 1566)

In the Augsburg Confession,
They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord’s day, contrary to the decalogue, as it appears; neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the ten commandments.
—Art. 28.

This is from the very first website that popped up when I Googled it.
Here's the link:
http://www.sabbathtruth.com/free-re...6/catholic-church-admits-they-made-the-change

If I were you, I'd run my own search. Double check.
Yeah...you might be in for a shock...

 

[bugkiller]

I have wondered for some time why some folks get all bent out of shape over the Sabbath command. I honestly do not get it. Of the ten, it seems to me that this would be the most welcome. A day of rest! A day to lie in the hammock with a good book, a day for the kids to do nothing but play...a day to enjoy!
Why in the world would anyone object to this?
Could someone here please explain this to me?

Do you really mean some object to doing nothing? You must be putting us on. People love getting a day off from work even without pay. Some even plan for it. I was told about some supervisor denying some avid hunters for their well known annual time off to deer hunt. They staged a fight right in front of them and got their wish. They were already loaded up laded up in the parking lot their of work place. Some people will never understand.

bugkiller

 

[TheBarrd]

exactly! Go bugster!

You are the only Frog I know of who lets a Bug do the talking.
I was kinda hoping you might have something to croak about this yourself?

 

[Frogster]

Wow.
Looks like you guys are involved in a rather bitter contest here.

Why so emotional about this, I wonder?

please...lets keep it theological and scriptural not personal, you have been around before ad you know bugkiller and i are grace proponents, and argue against the concision.

So again, you posted Jer 31, what laws, please advise....

 

[TheBarrd]

Do you really mean some object to doing nothing? You must be putting us on. People love getting a day off from work even without pay. Some even plan for it. I was told about some supervisor denying some avid hunters for their well known annual time off to dear hunt. They staged a fight right in front of them and got their wish. They were already loaded up laded up in the parking lot their of work place. Some people will never understand.

bugkiller

But that is what the Sabbath command is all about...a day of rest.
Honestly, have you even read it?

 

[Frogster]

You are the only Frog I know of who lets a Bug do the talking.
I was kinda hoping you might have something to croak about this yourself?

you have to answer me, you asked about the OP, i answered, you have not about jer 31..this is a debate section, we either debate, or ignore semantics, thanks!

 

[Frogster]

Jeremiah 31-34
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

But it isn't just Old Testament

Hebrews 8:8-
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more

I don't know about you, but it looks a whole lot to me as if the Christian will have God's law written in his heart...which would seem to indicate that he is expected to keep that law.
What do you think?

WHAT LAWS ARE WRITTEN?...THANKS!

 

[TheBarrd]

please...lets keep it theological and scriptural not personal, you have been around before ad you know bugkiller and i are grace proponents, and argue against the concision.

So again, you posted Jer 31, what laws, please advise....

My memories of this are rather vague, actually. I just don't have that much emotion invested in it.
But you're right...I have met you guys before.
I kinda remember the little hoppy frogs.
But what mostly brought it all back was when I noticed the name of someone I have on my ignore list.
I don't really remember the Bugkiller so much...it's been months ago, and I'm not as young as I once was.
Plus there's a lot going on in my "real" life...

Anyway, I already explained...it is the ten commandments I am talking about.

 

[TheBarrd]

you have to answer me, you asked about the OP, i answered, you have not about jer 31..this is a debate section, we either debate, or ignore semantics, thanks!

I have answered you.
I believe that the law in the New Covenant is the same ten commandments as I already said.
What is new and different is that God will write these laws within our hearts. He will send His spirit to be an intimate part of us, so that we will not have to be taught about Him by some chosen priesthood...we, ourselves, will be priests and kings with Him.
And finally, what is in the New Covenant that was not in the old is grace. God says that He will put our sins far from us.
It isn't a different law...it is a different way of giving the law. It is a different relationship with our God.
It is grace...

 

[Frogster]

I have answered you.
I believe that the law in the New Covenant is the same ten commandments as I already said.
What is new and different is that God will write these laws within our hearts. He will send His spirit to be an intimate part of us, so that we will not have to be taught about Him by some chosen priesthood...we, ourselves, will be priests and kings with Him.
And finally, what is in the New Covenant that was not in the old is grace. God says that He will put our sins far from us.
It isn't a different law...it is a different way of giving the law. It is a different relationship with our God.
It is grace...

well where does it say I will write just "some" of the laws on hearts?...hehehehe

 

[TheBarrd]

WHAT LAWS ARE WRITTEN?...THANKS!

THE LAWS THAT ARE WRITTEN are none other than the Ten Commandments found in EXODUS 20.

And that's the last time I'm going to answer the same question.

 

[Frogster]

it does not say SOME laws in jer 31!