Tell me again about the Socialism

[stamperben]

Tell me again about the Socialism

Since 2007 we’ve been hearing about the horrors that might loom if a certain Kenyan Muslim Communist seizes control of the White House. With each year that passes those predictions become increasingly absurd, but somehow the folks who issued them keep cranking them out.

Let’s look back at some of the less batty predictions of what Obama’s term in the White House would produce and compare them to reality:
​

Go ahead, compare if you dare.

 

[Nithavela]

Obamaaaaaa!

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

Thanks for the link. I always kind of like reading stuff from the more sane side of the Republican Party. I mean, I'm definitely not a Republican, but it's good to hear opposing opinions sometimes. It's just hard to read those opinions when they're slathered with conspiratorial nonsense and buzzwords.

 

[seashale76]

I never understood the socialism accusations. Obama isn't a socialist. He's Bush 2.0.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

I never understood the socialism accusations. Obama isn't a socialist. He's Bush 2.0.

I think that people like to make the parties seem farther apart than they actually are. In reality, anytime that you have a two-party dominant system, both parties are generally going to tend toward whatever the center position in that society is, with one being slightly to the left and one slightly to the right. You only get actual socialist parties in multi-party systems, where there's more motivation to capture the vote of a group that is unsatisfied with more centrist options. There are exceptions in countries like the U.K. where there's a strong party associated with labor movements, but they tend to be socialist in theory more than in practice (*cough* Tony Blair *cough*).

 

[Savior2006]

I never understood the socialism accusations.

Some people just have Obama derangement syndrome, drink the Kool Aid of Republicans, and need to grow up.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

I never understood the socialism accusations. Obama isn't a socialist. He's Bush 2.0.

Wow I thought I was the only one who thought that.

 

[Savior2006]

Wow I thought I was the only one who thought that.

Terrance says it. A lot of liberals, like myself, and people like The Young Turks say much to that effect.

 

[Farmer4Christ]

Socialism in the U.S. is different from Socialism described elsewhere. The Socialism that is described here in the U.S. is more descriptive of state capitalism (Which is what the USSR was), where people who run the businesses are also government officials. Examples would include Monsanto's VP becoming a member of the FDA, or the treasury/bankster relationship (Timothy Geithner) The requirement to purchase healthcare from health insurance businesses is also an example of state capitalism.

Socialism is really democracy-- the workers and all those affected by the industry vote on what course the business should take. No corporation should ever be considered a person, and no business should ever own property. Socalists believe in private ownership of property such as homes, and there are Christian Socialists that believe that you owning your own land is a keystone to the entire socialist system.

I'm more of a Christian Communist (I was a Conservative for most of my life until I became 28) where I believe that all of us within my community should divide our spoils so that none of us should go wanting. I don't agree with Marx's atheism because I believe a spiritual relationship with God is essential, as we are all spiritual creatures, but that because we all part of God nothing really ever belongs to us because it belongs to God. I believe I must help the poor and sell my treasures to help all those in need. I personally don't care that I might get treasures in heaven, and even if I did I would most likely distribute them evenly amongst the people, and toss my crown at the feet of Jesus.

Wow I thought I was the only one who thought that.

Nope -- I saw that in '08. I threw my vote away.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Nope -- I saw that in '08. I threw my vote away.

I did that in '12.

McCain seemed even worse.

Thus, my complaints of the president are usually non existence.. since I didn't participate in voting about it.


I can still complain about the first 4 years though.

 

[Farmer4Christ]

I can still complain about the first 4 years though.

Absolutely; promises were made and Obama certainly betrayed the people.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Absolutely; promises were made and Obama certainly betrayed the people.

I voted for him on the promise that he will undo what Bush did... still seeing that patriot act. Which is the main thing I wanted to see go. It looks like he is fulfilling his bargain to close down gitmo.. much to everyone's distress. as he just slowly releases folks.

 

[Farmer4Christ]

I voted for him on the promise that he will undo what Bush did... still seeing that patriot act. Which is the main thing I wanted to see go. It looks like he is fulfilling his bargain to close down gitmo.. much to everyone's distress. as he just slowly releases folks.

Though he may close Gitmo, the black sites still exist. The pessimist in me thinks that since there was so much opposition to Gitmo because it was rather public that internment may happen more in these legal 'black holes'.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

Though he may close Gitmo, the black sites still exist. The pessimist in me thinks that since there was so much opposition to Gitmo because it was rather public that internment may happen more in these legal 'black holes'.

The cynical part of me thinks that you're probably right. Dubiously legal internments are really just too convenient to stop because they could end up negatively affecting the innocent. I would like to see them stop, but realistically, that won't happen until we as a country stop trying to control global politics.

 

[TerranceL]

Wow I thought I was the only one who thought that.

Nope! I've been saying that for a loong time. He even had Bush's first presidential campaign down.

 

[AceHero]

Socialism in the U.S. is different from Socialism described elsewhere. The Socialism that is described here in the U.S. is more descriptive of state capitalism (Which is what the USSR was), where people who run the businesses are also government officials. Examples would include Monsanto's VP becoming a member of the FDA, or the treasury/bankster relationship (Timothy Geithner) The requirement to purchase healthcare from health insurance businesses is also an example of state capitalism.

I think corporatocracy might be a good term too:

Edmund Phelps, published an analysis in 2010 theorizing that the cause of income inequality is not free market capitalism, but instead is the result of the rise of corporatism.[22] Corporatism, in his view, is the antithesis of free market capitalism. It is characterized by semi-monopolistic organizations and banks, big employer confederations, often acting with complicit state institutions in ways that discourage (or block) the natural workings of a free economy. The primary effects of corporatism are the consolidation of economic power and wealth with end results being the attrition of entrepreneurial and free market dynamism.

His follow-up book, Mass Flourishing, further defines corporatism by the following attributes: power-sharing between government and large corporations (exemplified in the U.S. by widening government power in areas such as financial services, healthcare, and energy through regulation), an expansion of corporate lobbying and campaign support in exchange for government reciprocity, escalation in the growth and influence of financial and banking sectors, increased consolidation of the corporate landscape through merger and acquisition (with ensuing increases in corporate executive compensation), increased potential for corporate/government corruption and malfeasance, and a lack of entrepreneurial and small business development leading to lethargic and stagnant economic conditions.[23][24]

Socialism is really democracy-- the workers and all those affected by the industry vote on what course the business should take. No corporation should ever be considered a person, and no business should ever own property. Socalists believe in private ownership of property such as homes, and there are Christian Socialists that believe that you owning your own land is a keystone to the entire socialist system.

Far too many conservatives equate any flavor of socialism with full communism. It's ridiculous.

I'm more of a Christian Communist (I was a Conservative for most of my life until I became 28) where I believe that all of us within my community should divide our spoils so that none of us should go wanting. I don't agree with Marx's atheism because I believe a spiritual relationship with God is essential, as we are all spiritual creatures, but that because we all part of God nothing really ever belongs to us because it belongs to God. I believe I must help the poor and sell my treasures to help all those in need. I personally don't care that I might get treasures in heaven, and even if I did I would most likely distribute them evenly amongst the people, and toss my crown at the feet of Jesus.

I've never understood why Marx felt that religion was something that needed to be wiped out. I think we're creeping toward the other direction in the U.S. There are a lot of theocratic conservatives who think Christianity should be treated as superior to other ones and used to enact law.

As for me, I think a secular democracy with strong religious freedom is the way to go.

 

[HonestTruth]

President Obama ended Bush's Great Recession

Highest corporate profits since the year 1900

Record Wall Street activity

Saved the auto industry

Saved thousands of family farms

HUGE business expansion






all this from what right wing delusionals call a "socialist"

 

[Billnew]

Well, multi-quote isn't working,

Obama would have been alot worse if we didn't have the republicans preventing Obama.

Obamacare barely passed, government's first step to nationalize healthcare. Destined to fail, so government would have to save everyone from the mean insurance companies.

Bush 2.0: Alot of what Obama has done, was followed in Bush's footsteps. Mostly the parts of Bush I didn't like.

Repubican kool aid? Yea, who is lock step? The Republican party is so out of step they can only thrive when dems fail. (And sometimes not even then)

I will agree, there was no good option in 08. Poor options in 12.

Hoping for someone in 16, and please no Bush/Clinton rematch. Enough of both.

 

[ALoveDivine]

Obama is the farthest thing from a socialist. With the collapse of the big banks, what did Obama do? He handed them an absurd amount of our money and bailed them out.

What would a socialist have done? A socialist would have nationalized them. I would have much preferred this path, but we are delusional to think the US government would ever bite the hand that feeds them.

Socialism, moderate socialism at least, just means public ownership and control of the commanding heights of the economy (mainly finance) in tandem with policies aimed at promoting social justice and equal opportunity. A modern form of socialism, for example, could be grounded in nationalized public finance, a universal basic income and a job guarantee. Such simple yet radical policies would end poverty as we know it.

But I digress. Those who say Obama is a socialist have absolutely no understanding of socialism.

 

[Farmer4Christ]

President Obama ended Bush's Great Recession

Highest corporate profits since the year 1900

Record Wall Street activity

Saved the auto industry

Saved thousands of family farms

HUGE business expansion






all this from what right wing delusionals call a "socialist"

Unfortunately as we have seen what is good for Wall Street isn't necessarily good for Main Street. Additionally, higher corporate profits doesn't mean much when wages are stagnant, and benefits are dropping.


Also, can you elaborate on your points regarding business expansion and saving farms?

I've never understood why Marx felt that religion was something that needed to be wiped out. I think we're creeping toward the other direction in the U.S. There are a lot of theocratic conservatives who think Christianity should be treated as superior to other ones and used to enact law.

As for me, I think a secular democracy with strong religious freedom is the way to go.

I personally believe the official religion in the United States is really capitalism, and there is an incredibly zealous defense of the system, and the drive to consume within the system.

I couldn't agree more about your observation of neoconservatives. The neoconservative movement and its relationship with the type of Christianity that calls for a theocracy is really an alliance of convenience because of the desire to hold to their interpretation of 'traditional values' and the perpetuation of American mythology (e.g. Thanksgiving, Columbus Day, etc). Both groups believe that America has the god-given right to project force worldwide to advance the goals that they perceive as noble, and any groups from within that challenge capitalism and their interpretation of Christianity are deemed to be enemies. The likes of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell sees people like me as heretics because I am a communist, and that I speak out against the militarization and domination of women in their version of Christianity. Personally, I see no difference between a neoconservative and the 'radical Islam' they claim to hate, because they both are advancing the same kind of goals.

I'm all for a secular democracy with strong religious freedom. I don't believe that Christianity ought to dominate anything, but it should be there with open arms for any who wish to know the love of Jesus.