Original Research--join In

[justlookinla]

I can sit here immovable, like a statue, but I'm moving at thousands of miles an hour.

 

[crjmurray]

I can sit here immovable, like a statue, but I'm moving at thousands of miles an hour.

But you would not be immovable. Some force could act on you and move you. Ol Jack is claiming that the earth is immovable but we know that it moves. He's claiming that it is immovable from its orbit but we know that the orbit can change.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The Earth is an object. Like any object, if it's hit with sufficient force, it WILL move. That's basic Newtonian physics.

Actually, it doesn't require 'sufficient' force. As you say, Newtonian mechanics tells us that F=ma

If there is any force, there will be an acceleration.

Of course, since the mass of the earth is very large, human-scale forces will create tiny accelerations.

Whenever you jump up in the air, accelerating upward, and then downward again as gravity takes hold of you, the earth recoils away and back to your feet again. Everybody can move the earth (a tiny bit).

 

[justlookinla]

But you would not be immovable. Some force could act on you and move you. Ol Jack is claiming that the earth is immovable but we know that it moves. He's claiming that it is immovable from its orbit but we know that the orbit can change.

It's not movable until God moves it.

 

[crjmurray]

It's not movable until God moves it.

So it does move because God is moving it? Is this just another way of saying "god-did-it"

 

[justlookinla]

So it does move because God is moving it? Is this just another way of saying "god-did-it"

The natural forces from God moves it.

 

[JacksBratt]

The Earth is an object. Like any object, if it's hit with sufficient force, it WILL move. That's basic Newtonian physics.

How Can We Move the Earth?

I guess the question I need to ask is "what scripture are you referring to?

This one:

1 Chronicles 16:30King James Version (KJV)

30 Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.


1 Chronicles 16:30New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

30 tremble before him, all the earth.
The world is firmly established; it shall never be moved.






If so then the point is that it "will not be moved". This is much different than what we have been arguing about.

What David is writing here is how great God is and what He has done for His people and how permenant the earth and the world are along with the control over universe that God has.

If it is this one:

Psalm 104:5King James Version (KJV)

5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.


Psalm 104:5New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

5 You set the earth on its foundations,
so that it shall never be shaken.





Again, similar points as to what David is saying in Chronicles.

SO, yes, if a large enough force was placed on the earth, it could be moved from its orbit. Probably destroyed in the process but it could be under the right conditions.

However, the scriptures are basically saying that it never will be moved. God is in control of it and we don't have to worry as He looks after us and our home, the planet earth. It will not be moved or Cannot be moved as God will not allow it.

This help at all?

 

[lasthero]

If your argument is that the Bible says it can't be moved, that's fine. What you seemed to be saying however, was that science says the Earth can't be moved. Science says quite the opposite.

Also, again, the Earth's orbit does change.

 

[crjmurray]

The natural forces from God moves it.

So god did it?

 

[JacksBratt]

If your argument is that the Bible says it can't be moved, that's fine. What you seemed to be saying however, was that science says the Earth can't be moved. Science says quite the opposite.

Also, again, the Earth's orbit does change.

I understand that there are small fluctuations in the earths orbit. Small in relative terms. And, yes, theoretically and scientifically, the earth, being an object in space, could be moved.

You are correct in my belief that the bible says it will not be moved, and, it won't because God won't allow it.

I guess, the whole population, believers or not, should hope that that scripture is true.

 

[justlookinla]

So god did it?

Actually, God did it. But yes.

 

[crjmurray]

Actually, God did it. But yes.

My mistake. God did it. So is there evidence that God did it or is this an assumption from scripture? Basically, how do you tell the difference between a completely natural action and divine intervention?

 

[justlookinla]

My mistake. God did it. So is there evidence that God did it or is this an assumption from scripture?

It's an assumption from scripture and an assumption from intelligent design/complexity.

Basically, how do you tell the difference between a completely natural action and divine intervention?

There is no such thing as a "completely natural action". God is the ultimate source for all there is in the universe so in that sense everything is naturally supernatural. I can point to several instances in my life where God superseded, and acted beyond, His natural laws. Healing is just one example of a non-natural action with divine intervention.

Notice, I answered your question, I didn't respond with your evasive non-answer of "hold your breath".

 

[crjmurray]

I know, it helps when you ask an honest question.

 

[crjmurray]

It's an assumption from scripture and an assumption from intelligent design/complexity.



There is no such thing as a "completely natural action". God is the ultimate source for all there is in the universe so in that sense everything is naturally supernatural. I can point to several instances in my life where God superseded, and acted beyond, His natural laws. Healing is just one example of a non-natural action with divine intervention.

Notice, I answered your question, I didn't respond with your evasive non-answer of "hold your breath".

So with no evidence and no objective reason to do so you think God is guiding every natural force? How is your claim any different from a Muslim or a Hindu claiming the same thing but with their God?

 

[justlookinla]

I know, it helps when you ask an honest question.

Would you point out what is dishonest about the question you've evaded answering time and time again.Does this mean that you believe you're a product of something other than only random/chance, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless naturalistic mechanisms acting on an alleged single life form from long long ago?

justlookinla:"Does this mean that you believe you're a product of something other than only random/chance, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless naturalistic mechanisms acting on an alleged single life form from long long ago?"

crjmurray: "Why would you possibly think I believe that? What indication have you been given that would make you think that? Do you accuse people on the street with this nonsense?"

justlookinla: "I simply asked the question. Here it is again, mind answering it?

Does this mean that you believe you're a product of something other than only random/chance, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless naturalistic mechanisms acting on an alleged single life form from long long ago?"

Want to actually answer the question? No?

 

[justlookinla]

So with no evidence and no objective reason to do so you think God is guiding every natural force?

I think that God is the source for every natural force.

How is your claim any different from a Muslim or a Hindu claiming the same thing but with their God?

The difference is in one's view of God. Both are faith-based beliefs, as is the creationist beliefs of atheistic Darwinist creationists.

See how one simply faces and answers a question instead of running from the question.

Remember this one? Does this mean that you believe you're a product of something other than only random/chance, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless naturalistic mechanisms acting on an alleged single life form from long long ago?

 

[crjmurray]

I think that God is the source for every natural force.



The difference is in one's view of God. Both are faith-based beliefs, as is the creationist beliefs of atheistic Darwinist creationists.

See how one simply faces and answers a question instead of running from the question.

Remember this one? Does this mean that you believe you're a product of something other than only random/chance, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless naturalistic mechanisms acting on an alleged single life form from long long ago?

My understanding of the theory of evolution has nothing to do with faith. I'm not making any claims concerning science that I cannot provide evidence for. So no, we do not share a faith based belief. Now why should I believe your stance versus that of a Muslim creationist if both have no evidence and just faith?

 

[justlookinla]

My understanding of the theory of evolution has nothing to do with faith. I'm not making any claims concerning science that I cannot provide evidence for. So no, we do not share a faith based belief. Now why should I believe your stance versus that of a Muslim creationist if both have no evidence and just faith?

Take the information and believe what you wish.

Now, again....does this mean that you believe you're a product of something other than only random/chance, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless naturalistic mechanisms acting on an alleged single life form from long long ago?

 

[crjmurray]

Take the information and believe what you wish.

Now, again....does this mean that you believe you're a product of something other than only random/chance, mindless, meaningless, purposeless and goalless naturalistic mechanisms acting on an alleged single life form from long long ago?

Would a person be judged by your God if they chose a belief other than Christianity?