Couple fined for declining same-sex wedding on their farm

[NightHawkeye]

No threats this time, just FACT: Couple fined for refusing to host same-sex wedding on their farm | New York Post

The Giffords, who own the bucolic Liberty Ridge Farm in upstate New York, were ordered to pay a total of $13,000 — a $10,000 fine to the state and another $1,500 to each member of a lesbian couple to compensate them for “mental anguish.’’ All because the Giffords, devout Christians, refused to hold a same-sex wedding ceremony on the property on which they live, work and have raised a daughter, 17, and a son, 21.

“This is scary,’’ Cynthia Gifford said. “It’s scary for all Americans.”​

 

[abysmul]

What a murky mess we make when we attempt to make money off of our religion.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

Are we really going to do this again?

42 US Code § 2000bb–1

Memorize it, liberals. It is the law of the land. Fines and legal maneuverings of this type are only manipulations to force Christians to accept what to them is unacceptable, and guess what? Federal law says we do not have to do so, whether you like it or not!

 

[1000Flames]

Oh look, OP cuts the quote right before the important part. "Fifteen years ago, Cynthia, 54, and Robert Gifford, 55, opened to the public their farm in upstate Schaghticoke, near Albany, where they’ve lived for 25 years."

If you open it to the public, don't be surprised when THE PUBLIC wants to use it. That includes LGBT people.

It's not hard people. Don't want to host a SSM, fine. Don't make it open to the public.

 

[cow451]

Oh look, OP cuts the quote right before the important part. "Fifteen years ago, Cynthia, 54, and Robert Gifford, 55, opened to the public their farm in upstate Schaghticoke, near Albany, where they’ve lived for 25 years."

If you open it to the public, don't be surprised when THE PUBLIC wants to use it. That includes LGBT people.

It's not hard people. Don't want to host a SSM, fine. Don't make it open to the public.

Duh.

 

[bhsmte]

Oh look, OP cuts the quote right before the important part. "Fifteen years ago, Cynthia, 54, and Robert Gifford, 55, opened to the public their farm in upstate Schaghticoke, near Albany, where they’ve lived for 25 years."

If you open it to the public, don't be surprised when THE PUBLIC wants to use it. That includes LGBT people.

It's not hard people. Don't want to host a SSM, fine. Don't make it open to the public.

The public does mean the public, don't know what is so hard for some to comprehend?

 

[jayem]

From the article:

Gifford said she told her, politely, that she would not book a same-sex wedding ceremony at the farm.

She didn’t know it at the time, but the woman’s then-fianceé, Jennifer McCarthy, recorded the conversation. The pair then filed a formal complaint with the state Division of Human Rights.
​

(emphasis mine)

I don't support discrimination against same-sex persons by businesses. It's unseemly, and, I think it's a bad business decision. But this sounds like a set-up.
​

 

[cow451]

They likely borrowed the idea from right-wing "investigator" James O'Keefe.

I doubt the answer would've been any different had the request been done by mail, email, etc.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Good for them. I hope people with religious convictions continue to stand their ground.

 

[abysmul]

Or it's possible they were conducting business and it involved a very important occasion to them, and they used their smart phone to record it so they could always refer back to it if needed. I have no information to make me assume they were playing a "gotcha" game.

 

[cow451]

Good for them. I hope people with religious convictions continue to stand their ground.

You willing to cover their fines?

 

[abysmul]

You willing to cover their fines?

Hey if they want to turn their religion into a business, they should have budgeted for such fines.

 

[JayFern]

Couple fined for declining same-sex wedding on their farm

Don't stop there why not say it like it is?
Couple fined for declining same-sex wedding on their farm which they rent out to the public for wedding ceremonies.

What if the people were deformed or both 90 years old or suffered from Down's syndrome or some weird cult who wanted to sacrifice chickens to their God or even two people of the same sex who loved each other and wanted to get married.

How many people here chose to be attracted to their partners? or did it just happen?
How many decided early on in their lives that they were going to be heterosexual? or did it just happen?
How many decided early on in their lives that they were going to be homosexual? or did it just happen?

 

[ananda]

42 U.S. Code § 2000bb–1


Government may substantially burden a person’s exercise of religion only if it demonstrates that application of the burden to the person(1) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest

 

[ananda]

Government is ordering and compelling said licensee of the government to obey the terms of their licensure (private contract).

Government is not ordering a man and woman of the People to violate their religious rights protected by the Constitution.

Who are they acting as?

 

[questftbest]

The left doesn't just want gay marriage legalized they want Christians to pretend that gay sex is not a sin.

 

[ananda]

Just because the government wants to put new rules on government-based marriage does not change Scripturally-based marriage at all

 

[Maynard Keenan]

The left doesn't just want gay marriage legalized they want Christians to pretend that gay sex is not a sin.

We don't care if you pretend that sex between people of the same gender makes some god feel icky. We care about discrimination in public accommodation.

 

[NightHawkeye]

The left doesn't just want gay marriage legalized they want Christians to pretend that gay sex is not a sin.

According to Ken Blackwell, they want much more than that. 'Marriage Should Not Exist,' Says Masha the Marriage-ender - Ken Blackwell

All polling is skewed in favor of those couples claiming the civil right to marry. The mantra, endlessly repeated in a compliant media, is everyone should be able to marry “the one we love.” Or the two or three we love?

The pollsters never ask if a son should be allowed to enter into a marriage contract with his father (or his mother) to avoid inheritance taxes. Never do we hear the marriage-enders tell us whether twin brothers may marry. Or, twin brother and sister?

This will create grave harm. Who will be harmed? Those who are already being harmed by the collapse of marriage in America—the poor, women, children, minorities, and recent immigrants.​

 

[ThatRobGuy]

It's being referred to as "public property", but in terms of property, is it "public" as in taxpayer funded?, or public as in "they own the property, but offer a service to the public"?...big difference between the two things.

One means that all taxpayers chipped in, and thus all should have equal access to use it (IE: Libraries, roads, hospitals, etc...)

The other means that it's a privately held business, that happens to offer services to the public, like a store, and thus should be able to refuse service to anyone they so choose, without even giving a reason quite frankly...

If it's the latter of the two, then them refusing to do business with someone who's engaging in something they disapprove of is 100% their right...much like it's the right of McDonald's to tell me that they refuse to serve me if I'm barefooted (The no shoes no service sign)...if I walked into McDonald's tomorrow, barefooted, claiming that it's part of my religion called "Barefootism" (which religion is a protected class), and they refused to serve me, would people here support the idea of the state of Ohio fining the restaurant $10,000???

People seem to have a double standard on this topic...there are certain things that our constitution protects, however, you give up certain things when you enter someone else's private property, for example...the 1st amendment protects my right to voice my opinions about people...even in a rude way if I so choose. However, if I'm in someone else's store or home and start yelling "Group XYZ is nothing but a bunch of scum!!!" (with some profanity peppered in) loudly, the property owner has a right to tell me to leave...I don't get to come back and sue them for violating my first amendment rights. If a store puts up a "no firearms" sign in the window, I don't get to sue them for violating my 2nd amendment rights... If a private club only allows men to be members but not women, they don't get to sue the club for violating their 14th amendment rights. etc... etc...

Like I said, it's all about private vs. public property and whether or not the company is privately held or has gone public.

...but like another poster mentioned earlier in the thread...it does seem fishy...they already found another place to marry them so it does sound like maybe they got their honeymoon paid for by playing the system here.