Biblical "Leviathan" found

[Blessedj01]

Job 41 New International Version (NIV)

41 [a]“Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook
or tie down its tongue with a rope?
2 Can you put a cord through its nose
or pierce its jaw with a hook?
3 Will it keep begging you for mercy?
Will it speak to you with gentle words?
4 Will it make an agreement with you
for you to take it as your slave for life?
5 Can you make a pet of it like a bird
or put it on a leash for the young women in your house?
6 Will traders barter for it?
Will they divide it up among the merchants?
7 Can you fill its hide with harpoons
or its head with fishing spears?
8 If you lay a hand on it,
you will remember the struggle and never do it again!
9 Any hope of subduing it is false;
the mere sight of it is overpowering.
10 No one is fierce enough to rouse it.
Who then is able to stand against me?
11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under heaven belongs to me.
12 “I will not fail to speak of Leviathan’s limbs,
its strength and its graceful form.
13 Who can strip off its outer coat?
Who can penetrate its double coat of armor?
14 Who dares open the doors of its mouth,
ringed about with fearsome teeth?
15 Its back has[c] rows of shields
tightly sealed together;
16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.
17 They are joined fast to one another;
they cling together and cannot be parted.
18 Its snorting throws out flashes of light;
its eyes are like the rays of dawn.
19 Flames stream from its mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.
20 Smoke pours from its nostrils
as from a boiling pot over burning reeds.
21 Its breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from its mouth.
22 Strength resides in its neck;
dismay goes before it.
23 The folds of its flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.
24 Its chest is hard as rock,
hard as a lower millstone.
25 When it rises up, the mighty are terrified;
they retreat before its thrashing.
26 The sword that reaches it has no effect,
nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.
27 Iron it treats like straw
and bronze like rotten wood.
28 Arrows do not make it flee;
slingstones are like chaff to it.
29 A club seems to it but a piece of straw;
it laughs at the rattling of the lance.
30 Its undersides are jagged potsherds,
leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.
31 It makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron
and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 It leaves a glistening wake behind it;
one would think the deep had white hair.
33 Nothing on earth is its equal—
a creature without fear.
34 It looks down on all that are haughty;
it is king over all that are proud.”

Cretaceous Leviathan - Meet Spinosaurus Aegyptiacus, The First Ever Semiaquatic Dinosaur - Science News - redOrbit

 

[KnowtheSilence]

It could breathe fire?

 

[Blessedj01]

Yeah, mate. Or something similar to "fire," as we know it.

Provides another explanation for dragons being pervasive in culture.

 

[Gadarene]

Could it also fly?

What about farting glitter, could it do that too?

 

[Brigid48]

Yeah, mate. Or something similar to "fire," as we know it.

Provides another explanation for dragons being pervasive in culture.

Sorry, where was that in the article?

Also, where was the evidence that it survived to present day? You do know what Cretaceous means, right?

 

[Paradoxum]

I'm not sure Spinosaurus could breathe fire.

 

[Glass*Soul]

The Leviathan of Job was a Babylonian god. In Job, Yahweh was depicted as bragging he was able to defeat this god as easily as a fisherman pulling a fish out of the water on a hook.

It's a concept used to explore Yahweh's sovereignty, not something one might find evidence of in fossil form.

To imagine Yahweh battling a dinosaur as if he had to physically fight his creations in order to to demonstrate his superior strength would be a far less majestic depiction.

 

[Paradoxum]

The Leviathan of Job was a Babylonian god. In Job, Yahweh was depicted as bragging he was able to defeat this god as easily as a fisherman pulling a fish out of the water on a hook.

It's a concept used to explore Yahweh's sovereignty, not something one might find evidence of in fossil form.

To imagine Yahweh battling a dinosaur as if he had to physically fight his creations in order to to demonstrate his superior strength would be a far less majestic depiction.

Wow, if that's true, that's a really reasonable understanding of it.

 

[mpok1519]

The Leviathan of Job was a Babylonian god. In Job, Yahweh was depicted as bragging he was able to defeat this god as easily as a fisherman pulling a fish out of the water on a hook.

It's a concept used to explore Yahweh's sovereignty, not something one might find evidence of in fossil form.

To imagine Yahweh battling a dinosaur as if he had to physically fight his creations in order to to demonstrate his superior strength would be a far less majestic depiction.

You win the internet

 

[Blessedj01]

Sorry, where was that in the article?

Also, where was the evidence that it survived to present day? You do know what Cretaceous means, right?

I don't think fire was in the article.

I think it's obvious, Brigid, that there's debate on these matters.

 

[Blessedj01]

The Leviathan of Job was a Babylonian god. In Job, Yahweh was depicted as bragging he was able to defeat this god as easily as a fisherman pulling a fish out of the water on a hook.

It's a concept used to explore Yahweh's sovereignty, not something one might find evidence of in fossil form.

To imagine Yahweh battling a dinosaur as if he had to physically fight his creations in order to to demonstrate his superior strength would be a far less majestic depiction.

I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. :o

Psalm 104:

"24 How many are your works, Lord!
In wisdom you made them all;
the earth is full of your creatures.
25 There is the sea, vast and spacious,
teeming with creatures beyond number—
living things both large and small.
26 There the ships go to and fro,
and Leviathan, which you formed to frolic there..

The reason for the mention of Leviathan in the O.P passage, was because God was using Leviathan as an example of something mankind couldn't control or comprehend. This was a rebuke to one of the arguments put forward in Job.

 

[Blessedj01]

You win the internet

More like, fail at the Bible.

 

[Glass*Soul]

More like, fail at the Bible.

Well not entirely, I hope!

I suggest reading psalm 74 in which the psalmist places the defeat of Leviathan as an event taking place during creation, deftly combing the Genesis and Babylonian creation accounts in a way that makes Yahweh the hero of both.


An excerpt:

It was you who split open the sea by your power;you broke the heads of the monster in the waters.
It was you who crushed the heads of Leviathan
and gave it as food to the creatures of the desert.
It was you who opened up springs and streams;
you dried up the ever-flowing rivers.
The day is yours, and yours also the night;
you established the sun and moon.
It was you who set all the boundaries of the earth;
you made both summer and winter.

 

[Blessedj01]

Well not entirely, I hope!

I suggest reading psalm 74 in which the psalmist places the defeat of Leviathan as an event taking place during creation, deftly combing the Genesis and Babylonian creation accounts in a way that makes Yahweh the hero of both.


An excerpt:

It was you who split open the sea by your power;you broke the heads of the monster in the waters.
It was you who crushed the heads of Leviathan
and gave it as food to the creatures of the desert.
It was you who opened up springs and streams;
you dried up the ever-flowing rivers.
The day is yours, and yours also the night;
you established the sun and moon.
It was you who set all the boundaries of the earth;
you made both summer and winter.

I'll have to look into the connection.

 

[Queller]

Two problems (at least);

1. As others have noted, there is no evidence that spinosaurus breathed fire or "anything like it". No chordate does. Given that a large portion of its life was spent in the water, what would be the point?

2. Spinosaurus had no armor nor was its skin composed of "folds of its flesh" that were "tightly joined; ...firm and immovable". It had skin and thus it would have been easy enough (physically at least) to "fill its hide with harpoons".

 

[morse86]

This is awful pseudo science.

According to Traci Watson of USA Today, the recently-completed reconstruction of this dinosaur species showed that its skeleton was larger than a fire engine, measuring 50 feet in length. While it was also able to travel on solid ground, making it the largest predator to ever walk the Earth, its natural habitat was in the water.

However, those bones were destroyed during Allied bombing raids of Munich during World War II, and in the decades that followed, only fossil fragments were able to be recovered.

So the WHOLE thing was reconstructed from fragments of bones? This not science!

To put it in Kent Hovind's words: They found pieces of bones in the dirt and "guessed" what the entire animal would look like. That is not science.

 

[Queller]

This is awful pseudo science.

So the WHOLE thing was reconstructed from fragments of bones? This not science!

To put it in Kent Hovind's words: They found pieces of bones in the dirt and "guessed" what the entire animal would look like. That is not science.

When you have to cite Kent Hovind as your authority, your position is lost.

 

[Glass*Soul]

The reason for the mention of Leviathan in the O.P passage, was because God was using Leviathan as an example of something mankind couldn't control or comprehend. This was a rebuke to one of the arguments put forward in Job.

Which argument is it countering?



BTW, I do agree that Leviathan does seem to refer to an actual creature in Psalm 104.

 

[Glass*Soul]

This is awful pseudo science.





So the WHOLE thing was reconstructed from fragments of bones? This not science!

To put it in Kent Hovind's words: They found pieces of bones in the dirt and "guessed" what the entire animal would look like. That is not science.

Actually, it was reconstructed from a large quantity of bones, 1200 pounds of bones, "including a very scary four-toed foot, a piece of the beast’s jaw and spine from the animal’s sail," according to the Washington Post. Paleontologist Nizar Ibrahim has spent years of his life pursuing and studying these fossils. To call his analysis "guessing" is just disrespectful.

 

[morse86]

1200 pounds? So 2 bones that weighed 600 lbs? Oh ok.

You know what? Let's just believe everything they say and not question or think about any of it. Nizar would most likely worship baal for more $$$ funding, let's just believe him already OK? That's what the bible said about falsely so called science [sarcasm].